Buying a new computer for law school--mac or no? Forum

[roaringeagle]

Lol I'm gonna say it's more like a T1 at Sticker (mac) vs a T2 with scholly (asus/dell) . T1 costs more- but will last longer and give you a better experience long term - if you can afford it. T2 with scholly is like a cheap asus/dell - it'll last for a shorter time, be a poorer experience, break down more often, but if you do get to save money. If you get a decent quality/commercial/professional grade windows laptop it'll cost the same as macbooks - you are paying for a higher quality/engineered product but you are definitely PAYING for it. Depends how much money you are willing to spend.

One, Dells are terrible. Nobody should be buying a Dell in 2012. The ASUS is a lot more reliable than a Dell. And two, ASUS even makes motherboards for Apple. Doesn't make sense that their own products would breakdown more frequently than the ones they make for Apple. And lastly, I'm not sure a T1 education is higher quality product, it's just law school.

I agree with you on the run of the mill Dells, the Inspirons are crap. XPS line however is great. I have one and could not be happier. I have used ASUS products that have really screwed me over. Don't get me wrong ASUS motherboards are great but some of their PCI cards, routers etc. really aren't.

[laxbrah420]

if your buying a mac, its because you don't know shit about computers and your buying one because you think its cool.

also, i bought a mac. let's have a computer-knowledge off.
what is the thing called that you type on?

[presidentk1]

if your buying a mac, its because you don't know shit about computers and your buying one because you think its cool.

also, i bought a mac. let's have a computer-knowledge off.
what is the thing called that you type on?

i actually LOLed at this

[presidentk1]

Imagine being able to open Word and Excel and have them both up side by side with out having to minimize one, then open the other to pull data off of it.

The lost Lennon verse. Truly beautiful.

bottom line, macs are toys, not business machines

if your buying a mac, its because you don't know shit about computers and your buying one because you think its cool.

How about this for generalizations: if you give this big a shit about what kind of computer someone buys, you need to get out more.

or, it could be that I don't want to see someone who claims to be intelligent enough to become a lawyer, throw away money an a sub-par system all while supporting a company that has their products manufactured at a factory with such poor working conditions that they had to place nets under the buildings to stop people from committing suicide

[berkeleykel06]

Personally, it would take physical torture and/or at least a four-figure payoff to get me to use a Mac for a year.

[sequins]

Imagine being able to open Word and Excel and have them both up side by side with out having to minimize one, then open the other to pull data off of it.

The lost Lennon verse. Truly beautiful.

bottom line, macs are toys, not business machines

if your buying a mac, its because you don't know shit about computers and your buying one because you think its cool.

How about this for generalizations: if you give this big a shit about what kind of computer someone buys, you need to get out more.

or, it could be that I don't want to see someone who claims to be intelligent enough to become a lawyer, throw away money an a sub-par system all while supporting a company that has their products manufactured at a factory with such poor working conditions that they had to place nets under the buildings to stop people from committing suicide

Well a better comparison would be - average people who have used an asus/acer/dell etc. then tried a mac/apple - and then not looked back vs someone who hasn't used both, and just based their impression on a list of technical specifications they see. Oh and by average people I mean people who are non-gamers, and not computer experts/nerds - i.e. if you care about fps, ever considered using linux, or built your own computer - you are not the 'average user' who just wants a reliable computer that's easy to boot up and start working with. Anecdocally I know a good number of mac users in college - and practically none of them moved back. The one exception is an engineer friend, who booted into windows anyway, is an intense gamer who builds his own liquid cooled pcs, upgraing every year, and has fun messing around with linux. And even he bought a macbook pro initially cuz he wanted the higher build quality, battery life etc. - he went back to windows, but on a home built desktop and just didnt get a laptop.

Saw this comic a week ago and it seemed pretty apt.
http://www.smbc-comics.com/index.php?db ... 2597#comic
(Basically engineers, or 'spec' focused people have priorities different from the 'average' consumer - and apple products are catered towards the average person, not the person comparing how many frames per second in call of duty his graphics card can push out, or the fastest processor for rendering or something.

[presidentk1]

ok but even if you throw all the specs out the window

a mac is twice as much money as a comparably equipped pc

FWI, i've owned and used both extensively

[kalvano]

ok but even if you throw all the specs out the window

a mac is twice as much money as a comparably equipped pc

15 years ago, maybe. Not today. The difference is around $200 - $300.



Sent from my iPhone.

[Glock]

ok but even if you throw all the specs out the window

a mac is twice as much money as a comparably equipped pc

15 years ago, maybe. Not today. The difference is around $200 - $300.



Sent from my iPhone.

The mainstream stuff is closer in price as you suggest. When you get out on the fringes the super macs are tremendously more expensive than a comparable generic.

[kalvano]

Right, but I can work up a fringe gaming PC that puts a Mac to shame.


You're not getting anything objectively better or worse with a Mac, just different. If that difference is worth a couple hundred bucks, go for it. They do have some nice things going for them, like a sharp look, good build quality, and awesome touchpads. But price is a stupid thing to use to belittle a Mac. Samsung and Sony both have wildly overpriced PC's; it's paying for design and some sort of personal "wow" factor.

Personally, I hate OSX. I think it's a terrible OS and would rather be stuffed into a burlap sack with a wild honey badger than use OSX. But plenty of people love it. In seeing all these endless threads about which is "better", it never ceases to amaze me how worked up some people get over it. Neither one is better, just different.

[roaringeagle]

http://content.dell.com/us/en/dfh/d/cam ... id=4323181

mad good sale dell outlet XPS

[modus pwnens]

That extra money is paying for 3% engineering and 97% brand name/profits/stockholders' joy.

That extra money is paying for 3% engineering, 47% shareholder joy, and 50% please-have-sex-with-me hipster cred. ;)

[BearState]

Presidentk1, do you take that W520 with you to class? Is it bulkier/heavier than most?

[shredderrrrrr]

Right, but I can work up a fringe gaming PC that puts a Mac to shame.


You're not getting anything objectively better or worse with a Mac, just different. If that difference is worth a couple hundred bucks, go for it. They do have some nice things going for them, like a sharp look, good build quality, and awesome touchpads. But price is a stupid thing to use to belittle a Mac. Samsung and Sony both have wildly overpriced PC's; it's paying for design and some sort of personal "wow" factor.

Personally, I hate OSX. I think it's a terrible OS and would rather be stuffed into a burlap sack with a wild honey badger than use OSX. But plenty of people love it. In seeing all these endless threads about which is "better", it never ceases to amaze me how worked up some people get over it. Neither one is better, just different.

Despite loving OSX, I agree with this. Why the hell does everyone care so much? Unless we're talking about hardcore users (which I would assume most people on a Law School site would not be) it doesn't matter. And responding by saying, "You're paying more for the same thing!" is dumb.

[Geaux12]

Disclaimer for everyone planning to buy a MBP: Apple is widely thought to be releasing a completely overhauled version of the Pro this summer. Announcement expected to come at WWDC.


http://www.theverge.com/2012/5/14/30191 ... thin-usb-3


I highly suggest waiting to pick one up until after WWDC in June.

[presidentk1]

Presidentk1, do you take that W520 with you to class? Is it bulkier/heavier than most?

its 15.6in across
weighs maybe 5.5-6 pounds
and is a little more than an inch thick

i take it to class, no problems at all
it fits in my bag

if i had a complaint it would be about the charger. The 'brick' is a bit bigger than that of most laptops because it is 165w (compared to apple's ~80w)
but the machine demands a lot of power so its needed

[presidentk1]

Right, but I can work up a fringe gaming PC that puts a Mac to shame.


You're not getting anything objectively better or worse with a Mac, just different. If that difference is worth a couple hundred bucks, go for it. They do have some nice things going for them, like a sharp look, good build quality, and awesome touchpads. But price is a stupid thing to use to belittle a Mac. Samsung and Sony both have wildly overpriced PC's; it's paying for design and some sort of personal "wow" factor.

Personally, I hate OSX. I think it's a terrible OS and would rather be stuffed into a burlap sack with a wild honey badger than use OSX. But plenty of people love it. In seeing all these endless threads about which is "better", it never ceases to amaze me how worked up some people get over it. Neither one is better, just different.

Despite loving OSX, I agree with this. Why the hell does everyone care so much? Unless we're talking about hardcore users (which I would assume most people on a Law School site would not be) it doesn't matter. And responding by saying, "You're paying more for the same thing!" is dumb.

you are paying more for the same thing, and thats a fact
so no... its not dumb

cost of i7 windows laptop=$1000-$1200
same apple machine=$2000+

the "dumb" thing would be to spend $1k+ on the EXACT SAME THING only to be stuck with OSX and the compatibility issues it causes
most people keep their laptops for about 5 years, cant wait to see the IT department at firms laugh at new associates who show up to work w/ a mac

[shredderrrrrr]

Right, but I can work up a fringe gaming PC that puts a Mac to shame.


You're not getting anything objectively better or worse with a Mac, just different. If that difference is worth a couple hundred bucks, go for it. They do have some nice things going for them, like a sharp look, good build quality, and awesome touchpads. But price is a stupid thing to use to belittle a Mac. Samsung and Sony both have wildly overpriced PC's; it's paying for design and some sort of personal "wow" factor.

Personally, I hate OSX. I think it's a terrible OS and would rather be stuffed into a burlap sack with a wild honey badger than use OSX. But plenty of people love it. In seeing all these endless threads about which is "better", it never ceases to amaze me how worked up some people get over it. Neither one is better, just different.

Despite loving OSX, I agree with this. Why the hell does everyone care so much? Unless we're talking about hardcore users (which I would assume most people on a Law School site would not be) it doesn't matter. And responding by saying, "You're paying more for the same thing!" is dumb.

you are paying more for the same thing, and thats a fact
so no... its not dumb

cost of i7 windows laptop=$1000-$1200
same apple machine=$2000+

the "dumb" thing would be to spend $1k+ on the EXACT SAME THING only to be stuck with OSX and the compatibility issues it causes
most people keep their laptops for about 5 years, cant wait to see the IT department at firms laugh at new associates who show up to work w/ a mac

A. You're paying for the exact same thing? Really? They are identical in every way? Not everyone cares only about specs my man. What if someone preferred one keyboard over another? The trackpad? The body/design? The customer service of one company? Not saying that any of these things make it worth the extra money, but they aren't the same. They may have the same guts, but they aren't identical computers by any stretch of the word. Something tells me that a large population would spend extra money for a Lamborghini even if it had the exact same motor as a Camaro.

B. Even if they were the same thing, that really isn't cause to freak out. Are you really telling me you've never bought name brand instead of generic for no reason other than to buy the name brand? Again, this is not reason to justify the extra money, but it seems petty to care about it when it's not your money. Do you freak out when someone wears a pair of socks from Hanes because Fruit of the Loom makes the same product for cheaper?

[sequins]

Imagine being able to open Word and Excel and have them both up side by side with out having to minimize one, then open the other to pull data off of it.

The lost Lennon verse. Truly beautiful.

bottom line, macs are toys, not business machines

if your buying a mac, its because you don't know shit about computers and your buying one because you think its cool.

How about this for generalizations: if you give this big a shit about what kind of computer someone buys, you need to get out more.

or, it could be that I don't want to see someone who claims to be intelligent enough to become a lawyer, throw away money an a sub-par system all while supporting a company that has their products manufactured at a factory with such poor working conditions that they had to place nets under the buildings to stop people from committing suicide

Just saying, the super intelligent lawyers who are partners in major firms do seem to be the ones who place a value on "brand" I.e. they are the ones who insist on hiring from only t1 schools or place a far higher value on hys even though you are theoretically studying the same cases at your average TTT. It seems like highly intelligent lawyers are precisely the type of people who place a monetary value on brands and also understand that even though two things may look the same on paper. I.e similar courses taught at Cooley vs Harvard or similar specs on a MacBook vs dell one is still a lot more valued than the other. And If you meant the Foxconn suicides there were a few suicides out of 200-300k workers it sounds like a lot be aide people don't appreciate the scale of the operations there. It's actually far below the population average. That's like saying the raw number of us suicides is higher than that of Polynesia ergo polynesia is a better environment to live in.

[presidentk1]

Right, but I can work up a fringe gaming PC that puts a Mac to shame.


You're not getting anything objectively better or worse with a Mac, just different. If that difference is worth a couple hundred bucks, go for it. They do have some nice things going for them, like a sharp look, good build quality, and awesome touchpads. But price is a stupid thing to use to belittle a Mac. Samsung and Sony both have wildly overpriced PC's; it's paying for design and some sort of personal "wow" factor.

Personally, I hate OSX. I think it's a terrible OS and would rather be stuffed into a burlap sack with a wild honey badger than use OSX. But plenty of people love it. In seeing all these endless threads about which is "better", it never ceases to amaze me how worked up some people get over it. Neither one is better, just different.

Despite loving OSX, I agree with this. Why the hell does everyone care so much? Unless we're talking about hardcore users (which I would assume most people on a Law School site would not be) it doesn't matter. And responding by saying, "You're paying more for the same thing!" is dumb.

you are paying more for the same thing, and thats a fact
so no... its not dumb

cost of i7 windows laptop=$1000-$1200
same apple machine=$2000+

the "dumb" thing would be to spend $1k+ on the EXACT SAME THING only to be stuck with OSX and the compatibility issues it causes
most people keep their laptops for about 5 years, cant wait to see the IT department at firms laugh at new associates who show up to work w/ a mac

A. You're paying for the exact same thing? Really? They are identical in every way? Not everyone cares only about specs my man. What if someone preferred one keyboard over another? The trackpad? The body/design? The customer service of one company? Not saying that any of these things make it worth the extra money, but they aren't the same. They may have the same guts, but they aren't identical computers by any stretch of the word. Something tells me that a large population would spend extra money for a Lamborghini even if it had the exact same motor as a Camaro.

B. Even if they were the same thing, that really isn't cause to freak out. Are you really telling me you've never bought name brand instead of generic for no reason other than to buy the name brand? Again, this is not reason to justify the extra money, but it seems petty to care about it when it's not your money. Do you freak out when someone wears a pair of socks from Hanes because Fruit of the Loom makes the same product for cheaper?

it took me a few minutes to stop laughing @ this before i could respond

really, not everyone cares about the specs?! have you lost your mind
its a computer, its ALL ABOUT THE SPECS

whats the point in having a comfy keyboard when its processor is crap and it takes ages to load things

second, your analogy in part B is absurd,
and i'm not "freaking out", you wanna blow the extra grand to get something worse be my guest

I truly believe that some of the comments people make in this thread are a result of ignorance and lack of understanding
you're falling right into the apple marketing trap that leads you to believe that their product is much more valuable than it really is

again, i've used both extensively, and i'm speaking from first hand experience not just what i read online

[shredderrrrrr]

A. You're paying for the exact same thing? Really? They are identical in every way? Not everyone cares only about specs my man. What if someone preferred one keyboard over another? The trackpad? The body/design? The customer service of one company? Not saying that any of these things make it worth the extra money, but they aren't the same. They may have the same guts, but they aren't identical computers by any stretch of the word. Something tells me that a large population would spend extra money for a Lamborghini even if it had the exact same motor as a Camaro.

B. Even if they were the same thing, that really isn't cause to freak out. Are you really telling me you've never bought name brand instead of generic for no reason other than to buy the name brand? Again, this is not reason to justify the extra money, but it seems petty to care about it when it's not your money. Do you freak out when someone wears a pair of socks from Hanes because Fruit of the Loom makes the same product for cheaper?

it took me a few minutes to stop laughing @ this before i could respond

really, not everyone cares about the specs?! have you lost your mind
its a computer, its ALL ABOUT THE SPECS

whats the point in having a comfy keyboard when its processor is crap and it takes ages to load things

second, your analogy in part B is absurd,
and i'm not "freaking out", you wanna blow the extra grand to get something worse be my guest

I truly believe that some of the comments people make in this thread are a result of ignorance and lack of understanding
you're falling right into the apple marketing trap that leads you to believe that their product is much more valuable than it really is

again, i've used both extensively, and i'm speaking from first hand experience not just what i read online

Lol re-read my comment.

Not everyone cares only about specs

really, not everyone cares about the specs?! have you lost your mind

You missed the only. Obviously it would be dumb to pay more money for a computer that has lower specs. We were comparing like computers though. You said for the same computer, Apple is more expensive. I said people care about more than just specs, possibly justifying that extra cost.

Now actually responding to my comment and not some altered reading of it, do you still think it is entirely dumb to spend more money for a computer with identical specs based on things such as design and company reputation/service? Or should you just get the cheapest thing you can so long as the guts are good?

[presidentk1]

A. You're paying for the exact same thing? Really? They are identical in every way? Not everyone cares only about specs my man. What if someone preferred one keyboard over another? The trackpad? The body/design? The customer service of one company? Not saying that any of these things make it worth the extra money, but they aren't the same. They may have the same guts, but they aren't identical computers by any stretch of the word. Something tells me that a large population would spend extra money for a Lamborghini even if it had the exact same motor as a Camaro.

B. Even if they were the same thing, that really isn't cause to freak out. Are you really telling me you've never bought name brand instead of generic for no reason other than to buy the name brand? Again, this is not reason to justify the extra money, but it seems petty to care about it when it's not your money. Do you freak out when someone wears a pair of socks from Hanes because Fruit of the Loom makes the same product for cheaper?

it took me a few minutes to stop laughing @ this before i could respond

really, not everyone cares about the specs?! have you lost your mind
its a computer, its ALL ABOUT THE SPECS

whats the point in having a comfy keyboard when its processor is crap and it takes ages to load things

second, your analogy in part B is absurd,
and i'm not "freaking out", you wanna blow the extra grand to get something worse be my guest

I truly believe that some of the comments people make in this thread are a result of ignorance and lack of understanding
you're falling right into the apple marketing trap that leads you to believe that their product is much more valuable than it really is

again, i've used both extensively, and i'm speaking from first hand experience not just what i read online

Lol re-read my comment.

Not everyone cares only about specs

really, not everyone cares about the specs?! have you lost your mind

You missed the only. Obviously it would be dumb to pay more money for a computer that has lower specs. We were comparing like computers though. You said for the same computer, Apple is more expensive. I said people care about more than just specs, possibly justifying that extra cost.

Now actually responding to my comment and not some altered reading of it, do you still think it is entirely dumb to spend more money for a computer with identical specs based on things such as design and company reputation/service? Or should you just get the cheapest thing you can so long as the guts are good?

ok lets try this again, assuming identical specs:

the only differences would be cosmetic in nature
the processor inside is made by the same company (intel) as are the other components

so what your saying is, some people can justify spending upwards of $1000 (the cost of a second computer) just because it is a mac and may be aesthetically appealing

i'm not misreading what you are saying, i completely get it, I just totally disagree w/ it

but hey to each his own, its your money

[shredderrrrrr]

ok lets try this again, assuming identical specs:

the only differences would be cosmetic in nature
the processor inside is made by the same company (intel) as are the other components

so what your saying is, some people can justify spending upwards of $1000 (the cost of a second computer) just because it is a mac and may be aesthetically appealing

i'm not misreading what you are saying, i completely get it, I just totally disagree w/ it

but hey to each his own, its your money

Where are you getting this $1,000 number from? You can get non-Apple computers with the same specs as the 13-inch MBP for $99 (2.4 GHz) or $399 (2.8 GHz)?

[modus pwnens]

Disclaimer: I like Macs. I get along with Macs, as computers qua computers, just fine. And for most users on TLS, performing the tasks that TLS is concerned with, any new laptop will do, from the swankest MBP to the $300 Presario at WalMart.

I think we're talking about different things regarding design and reputation, however. It is my experience that people don't talk about Macs' reputation in the terms of "wow, I got good tech support today." More often, it's couched in terms of "wow, Apple is the only hip corporation." People don't talk about design so much in terms of "that Mac has a crisp, ergonomic keyboard that increases my WPM" (although it might), rather in terms of Macs are cool, PCs are dull.

That's fine. People pay good money for style all the time. But don't try to convince literate computer users that you bought your Mac because it gives you better performance for equivalent money. It's never equivalent money.

Macs are, primarily, about signaling. For the vast majority of general-purpose users, advertising has taught us ("Hi, I'm a Mac! And I'm a PC.") that hip, privileged, clever, progressive, sexy young people use Macs. That's why many-to-most users buy them, even if they won't admit it. Boring, orthodox, square people use PCs. Advertising tells us that, and we believe it.

So go for it. Signaling has value. People are willing to pay for it. Just be honest about it. You want a Mac because that sassy girl in your section will think you're a nerd if you show up with a ThinkPad. And you're probably right. That's what you're paying for.

[presidentk1]

ok lets try this again, assuming identical specs:

the only differences would be cosmetic in nature
the processor inside is made by the same company (intel) as are the other components

so what your saying is, some people can justify spending upwards of $1000 (the cost of a second computer) just because it is a mac and may be aesthetically appealing

i'm not misreading what you are saying, i completely get it, I just totally disagree w/ it

but hey to each his own, its your money

Where are you getting this $1,000 number from? You can get non-Apple computers with the same specs as the 13-inch MBP for $99 (2.4 GHz) or $399 (2.8 GHz)?

I wasn't comparing low-end systems like a 13 MBP

i was comparing my w520 to a 15in MBP (closest equivalent to my machine sold by apple)
my machine is actually better equipped

w520=$1100
MBP=$2200

@modus pwnens, your analysis is on point