NYU 3L relaxing... Forum

[Renzo]

Of the people you know who are doing public interest work, have any paid full price intending to fall back on LRAP? I realize that's a sensitive topic and may not come up in casual conversation, but I'd appreciate any insight you might have. I received $54k from Michigan and wonder if it's completely crazy to pass that up to do PI at NYU at (presumably) sticker. I'd prefer NYU for its job prospects, PI resources, faculty, and centers and journals, but I don't want to drown it debt, though FWIW I've lived in NYC for the last two years on a salary of under $40k.

/ramble

I have a 2L classmate who didn't go through OCI, and is only interested in federal/political work. I can't be 100% certain of her financial status, but I am reasonably sure she's paying sticker and counting on LRAP.

[HarlandBassett]

I hate you.

I guess I'm taking both questions and insults...kidding. I assume you still have a final to take?

Yea we have civ pro tomorrow, lol.

I know this is hard to answer on account of people having the decency not to discuss it, but to whatever extent you can speak to it, does everybody have a decent job? Do you have to be pretty unlucky to strike out at OCI and mass mail etc., or is that not abnormal? Is it beyond hellish if you strike out, or do people tend to maintain the mindset that they will get something eventually?

None of my 3L friends are still looking for a job, but a few struck out at EIW last year. Pretty much everybody finds something, but not everyone gets what they want. That's the biggest difference from boom times. One friend of mine was really disappointed he didn't get biglaw after 2L, but he worked hard and snagged an offer from a V100 firm this year. It's certainly a lot less stressful if you land a 2L SA position. Last year, the classes were smaller, but the offer rates were really high (near 100% at most firms). I'm sure you've seen the numbers, but something like 70% of NYU's 2L class last year got at least one offer from EIW. The other 30% had to find a job another way. Anyway, by most accounts, legal hiring is at least stable and likely improving, so the chances of finding absolutely no job are relatively low.

70% is amazingly high.

[HarlandBassett]

Can you tell us about the lottery system and bidding?

[twistedwrister]

thanks a lot!

also, random q- do you know people who have done "hard" IP law without an engineering background? I was a molecular bio major, so i have organic and biochem, but most of the IP lawyers i know that specialize in bio have some kind of postgrad school.

Sure. A friend of mine was a neuroscience major and is doing patent lit at a well respected firm. You can get into patent litigation with any kind of science background (and rarely without a science background at all), although people with EE/computer-type backgrounds are particularly in demand. If you have a PhD or relevant work experience, all the better. If you want to do patent prosecution, you'll have a tougher time. Most of the bio-type patent prosecution is done by PhD's.

[twistedwrister]

Can you tell us about the lottery system and bidding?

Not much to tell. Each student gets a certain number of points and, using those points, bids on the classes (s)he wants. The bidding program is called ABRA. On a given date, the program runs and fills each class with the students who bid the most points. The popular and/or small classes tend to cost a lot, while some bigger, less-popular classes might be "free." 3L's get more points than 2L's do. If you don't "win" the class(es) you want, your points are returned to you and you can bid on the remaining open classes in the next bidding cycle.

[twistedwrister]

Back again, still relaxing.

[ahduth]

Kind of a shot in the dark, but do you know anyone who did Jacobson? I'm not sure what my odds are (I can't find out how many people get it, and hell I haven't gotten into NYU at all, come to think of it), but the program sounds great. Just curious, as I wasn't able to dig up a ton of info about it.

[twistedwrister]

Kind of a shot in the dark, but do you know anyone who did Jacobson? I'm not sure what my odds are (I can't find out how many people get it, and hell I haven't gotten into NYU at all, come to think of it), but the program sounds great. Just curious, as I wasn't able to dig up a ton of info about it.

I'm sorry, but I don't. I do have a few friends doing a joint JD/MBA.

[musketeerlady]

Thanks for the insights, and congrats on your amazing law school career!

I'm a 1L at NYU, and have a couple of questions:

1. Recently we 1L got a bunch of cocktail receptions invites from law firms, all known ones. Do you know what those are all about? Is it worth going if I've lined up something and won't be considering law firms for 1L summer?

2. Could you talk more about getting your writing published - you mentioned submitting via Expresso, then the writing just took its own course or was there more connection involved? Any tip on for starting writers?

3. I'm curious how did you find out what percentile of the class are you in (i.e. 2%)? Would love to get that distribution! I don't believe that NYU ranks but I could be mistaken.

4. In your experience, who are "must-take" profs or classes at NYU, aside from Burt Neuborne (what class btw?) I also agree that the profs here are amazing, and I'm torn between taking more classes with the profs that I know (all so good) or exploring new profs...

Thanks a lot!

[cahesu]

3. I'm curious how did you find out what percentile of the class are you in (i.e. 2%)? Would love to get that distribution! I don't believe that NYU ranks but I could be mistaken.

Thanks a lot!

This. If you know, can you give us a rough GPA estimate of what top 30%, top 10% and top 2% are?

[sophie316]

3. I'm curious how did you find out what percentile of the class are you in (i.e. 2%)? Would love to get that distribution! I don't believe that NYU ranks but I could be mistaken.

Thanks a lot!

This. If you know, can you give us a rough GPA estimate of what top 30%, top 10% and top 2% are?

Not the OP but if I recall correctly after 1L its vaguely:

Median: 3.3
Top 1/3: 3.5
Top 10%: 3.67
Top 5%: 3.8

Pomery(top 10 students) last year was about a 3.9(although that will fluctuate a bit from year to year) and I *think* a 3.86 or so was good enough to grade on to LR.

This is from bits and pieces posted on TLS/anecdotal so take w grain of salt. I think if your career counselor really likes you you can get them to tell you roughly where you fall as the school has the cutoffs even if they don't ever publish them/use them except to calculate honors.

[twistedwrister]

Glad to hear you're liking NYU so far. Re your questions:

1. The cocktail things are basically networking opportunities. Dress up, make conversation, etc. I never went because I don't live in Manhattan, but some friends of mine went to many of the firm events and had a good time. I don't know if it will help you get a job, but the food and drinks are usually good (and free).

2. After submitting a paper for publication, you wait to hear back from the journals. Some send rejections, some send nothing at all, and if you're lucky, one or two will bite. After you accept an offer, the journal editors go to work and send you proposed changes/suggestions. After a little back and forth, the paper is ready for publication. To get published, it's best to write on a current "hot" topic that hasn't already been analyzed to death. Obviously, the paper should be well-written and interesting. You need a catchy intro and abstract to draw the reader in. If possible, ask a few big-name profs to review and comment on your work, and then mention the profs in your cover letter.

3. I was a Pomeroy/Butler scholar, so that's how I know my approximate class rank. You're right that NYU does not publish class rank. Sophie's numbers (see above) look reasonable to me, though.

4. Other profs: Yoshino for Con Law, Waldron (if you like that kind of stuff), Issacharoff, Harry Edwards (if you want to do appellate work), Chesler (presiding partner at Cravath) for trial advocacy.

[cahesu]

Thanks for the info! Now, if I only had my grades, I would know whether to start asking what bottom 1/3, bottom 10%, and bottom 2% are

[addicted]

Have you heard of NYU students who worked at big law firms being no-offered at the end of the summer?

[twistedwrister]

Have you heard of NYU students who worked at big law firms being no-offered at the end of the summer?

Not for my class (2011), but of course it's not something that one would really talk about. All my friends who worked at firms last summer got offers, although some expect to be deferred (I think some firms are still planning to defer some/most of their incoming associates). Last summer the classes were quite small, but the offer rates were generally high.

[twistedwrister]

Thanks for the info! Now, if I only had my grades, I would know whether to start asking what bottom 1/3, bottom 10%, and bottom 2% are

LOL. Don't stress until you actually get your grades. You might be pleasantly surprised.

[alb324]

Thanks so much for taking questions! I was accepted to NYU and I'm pretty set on it but I have a few questions...

1. I'm planning on living with college friends in Brooklyn for 1L, but do you think this will be a disadvantage in terms of meeting/socializing with other students?
2. Do you know if textbooks are available on Kindle or Nook, and if anyone uses them - or if it's easier to read/highlight a physical book?
3. I know you mentioned that it's pretty taboo to discuss scholarship money/financials but do you know of anyone who was able to negotiate additional merit-based money by using merit offers from other schools?
4. My main decision will probably be between Penn and NYU, and the only area where Penn is winning right now is smaller class size. What's the worst thing about the large class size? I'm coming from a large state school, so I'm all too familiar with bureaucratic nightmares and closed classes..

Thanks!

[twistedwrister]

No problem! Answers are below.

Thanks so much for taking questions! I was accepted to NYU and I'm pretty set on it but I have a few questions...

1. I'm planning on living with college friends in Brooklyn for 1L, but do you think this will be a disadvantage in terms of meeting/socializing with other students?

Yes, but not too much. It depends on how much time you spend in/around NYU outside of class. If you hang around NYU all day, attend the events, participate in activities, etc., you will have no problem meeting people. I have several friends who lived in Brooklyn during 1L and loved it.

2. Do you know if textbooks are available on Kindle or Nook, and if anyone uses them - or if it's easier to read/highlight a physical book?

I don't know, but I suggest using a physical book so you can highlight and/or make notes.

3. I know you mentioned that it's pretty taboo to discuss scholarship money/financials but do you know of anyone who was able to negotiate additional merit-based money by using merit offers from other schools?

I don't -- sorry.

4. My main decision will probably be between Penn and NYU, and the only area where Penn is winning right now is smaller class size. What's the worst thing about the large class size? I'm coming from a large state school, so I'm all too familiar with bureaucratic nightmares and closed classes..

For me, the crowded hallways when classes get out. I hate that. There are a lot of courses offered at NYU, so if you get shut out of one you like, there is usually another appealing option. Some disadvantages that others might experience (but I didn't) - (1) becoming overwhelmed by so many people (but honestly, if 500 or so law students is too big a crowd for you, you probably shouldn't be going to school in the Village), (2) developing relationships with professors (to do that, you have to make an effort, regardless of whether the class is 200 students or 500 students), and (3) competing with lots of classmates for the same jobs (although NYU's placement has been really good lately)

Thanks!

[musketeerlady]

Super helpful, thanks a lot!

OP, I want to learn more about your studying method: did you brief cases or find them helpful? I read all the cases, but didn't brief them since it was too time-consuming and more details than necessary (benchmarked by practice exams). Just wondering if I'm not getting out enough from cases. Also, it's really amazing that you're not using any supps. I'd be so lost without them, though I did find that reading them before class hindered my ability to think creatively about new subjects.

[treemeister]

yeah, thanks again.

one more - what are you hearing about people's summer jobs? do you think big firm jobs really vary in terms of quality of life? does it make sense to do a lot of research on firms before EIW?

[twistedwrister]

Super helpful, thanks a lot!

OP, I want to learn more about your studying method: did you brief cases or find them helpful? I read all the cases, but didn't brief them since it was too time-consuming and more details than necessary (benchmarked by practice exams). Just wondering if I'm not getting out enough from cases. Also, it's really amazing that you're not using any supps. I'd be so lost without them, though I did find that reading them before class hindered my ability to think creatively about new subjects.

No prob! I briefed cases in full (1-2 pages per case) during most of first semester 1L. Now, I just take short notes (a paragraph or so) detailing the takeaways of each case as I'm reading. I then combine my class notes with my reading notes into a long outline and distill it into a shorter outline when exam time rolls around. Re supplements, I'm not really against them, I just don't use them. I learn the material the professor teaches and leave it at that. Now, in the real world (i.e., during my summer job), I used treatises all the time. They are a great way to start researching a topic.

[twistedwrister]

yeah, thanks again.

one more - what are you hearing about people's summer jobs? do you think big firm jobs really vary in terms of quality of life? does it make sense to do a lot of research on firms before EIW?

Yes, the QOL does depend somewhat on your firm. You'll be working long hours at all big firms, but some are worse than others (Cravath, BSF, WLRK, and some uber-prestigious lit boutiques come to mind). Also, firms have different personalities. Some are very buttoned-up and others are less so. Some have assignment systems designed to make sure all young associates get work, while others (e.g., K&E) are "eat what you kill" type places. Unfortunately, you won't know a firm's personality until you work there for awhile. Just doing research isn't enough. I'd do research on firms before EIW so you can speak intelligently about the firms, but as far as finding out about a firm's culture, good luck -- every firm touts itself as collegial.

IMO, the specific partner(s) with which you work are far more important to your QOL and quality of work than the firm at which you work. My grades were good, and I was lucky enough to get quite a few offers. I turned down callbacks and offers at most of the V10 and some great lit boutiques and went to a firm where I had a great rapport with the partner who heads up the group in which I'll be working. It's been amazing - he was my mentor over the summer and made sure I got great work, and we've become good friends. Thus, my QOL is much better than many of my friends who don't have that kind of relationship with partners at their firms.

[cahesu]

2. Do you know if textbooks are available on Kindle or Nook, and if anyone uses them - or if it's easier to read/highlight a physical book?

I just purchased my books for next semester and wanted to let you know that at least one of my three textbooks was available for Kindle. FWIW, I haven't seen anyone use a Kindle or Nook in class or in the library.

[twistedwrister]

Here for about an hour tonight if anyone has questions. Also, good luck to everyone re grades and the upcoming semester!

[Ialdabaoth]

Hi, twistedwrister. Thanks for taking questions for so long!

I was just wondering do you know many people who are interested in entering PI or federal government positions directly after graduation? And if so, how have they fared in seeking that type of employment? I know NYU has a great reputation for public interest and that a higher percentage of each class goes that route than much of the t14, but I'd love to hear any personal success (or not) stories that you have heard. Thanks!