. Forum

[Antipodean]

How do you think most Columbia students view the administration and its efforts to improve the outlook for its' students in light of the recession in the legal field?

Talking to students from the various classes, opinion seems to vary predominantly by year group. 3Ls are by far the most cynical, since they've been hit the hardest - as of February only 90% have after-graduation employment, which, while better than most schools, was not what the Class of 2010 were expecting going in. The university has been pulling a lot of strings, but it's hard to revise expectations down. That said, there have been some major changes in the Office of Career Services, and the 2Ls and 3Ls I talk to say it's been a great improvement.

Amongst the 1Ls, there seems to be a lot more of a "let's wait and see" attitude. Everyone knows that the summer job hunt has been tougher than normal, but without a point of comparison, I don't hear anyone assigning blame to the school. Professors have been pretty free with advice and recommendations, and things seem to be working out, at least insofar as landing jobs goes. I only know one person who doesn't have an offer at this point, and that's from a pretty wide circle of friends.

The Administration is clearly concerned about the tough economy, and is putting together a wide variety of new events and resources in an effort to A) Show that they care, and B) Get us jobs. There was a new Private Career Symposium this semester, a variety of de-stress events, and Town Hall Meetings where Dean Schizer let us know about current initiatives, the job market, and took questions on everything from career statistics to a hot water machine for Lenfest Café.

In particular, everyone is pretty interested in the initiative to combine Columbia's LRAP with the Federal program; there's all kinds of mathematical messiness involved, but for those planning to do goverment/not-for-profit for 10 years in the US, it could almost eliminate loan repayment. So that's pretty popular.

Overall, the faculty and administration seem to be geniunely concerned about the current legal economy, and to be putting a lot of new measures in place to deal with it. But then, that's what you'd expect at any top law school.

[Lem37]

How do you think most Columbia students view the administration and its efforts to improve the outlook for its' students in light of the recession in the legal field?

The administration is wonderfully optimistic, even if law students are no longer on safe ground. Furthermore, they provide speakers and networking events (almost daily!) to educate us about opportunities in every sector, and all over the country/world.

That being said, I was having a rough time finding a PI job earlier this month. I (stupidly) set my mind on New York, and of course all of the deferred attorneys are taking all the high-profile PI jobs here (Legal Aid, ACLU, etc.). My public interest counselor has been working with me every week, and I have a whole new set of interviews coming up, which is really relieving.

It was honestly a lot easier for me to find a judicial internship, which is currently my backup plan (I have about a month to decide if I want to take a federal internship position in NJ while I go on these PI interviews). Columbia remains a highly respected name, even during the recession, and I can't think of any place I'd rather be than here.

[Jules Winnfield]

Thank you, Antipodean and Lem37! Each of your responses gave me something to think about.

[Lem37]

Also: hi James! *waves*

[Frank]

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[Frank]

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[Frank]

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[Lem37]

By the way, I know who both of you are (Lem and James), but you guys don't know me!!!! Not to sound sketchy or something....lol

That was like...the sketchiest thing ever. Of course, my avatar is a picture of me.

[Frank]

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[Jules Winnfield]

Thanks, Frank! Your insight is much appreciated!

[Frank]

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[cahesu]

By the way, I know who both of you are (Lem and James), but you guys don't know me!!!! Not to sound sketchy or something....lol

That was like...the sketchiest thing ever. Of course, my avatar is a picture of me.

Hey Lem37, I followed your cycle last year on LSN as I have very similar numbers! Good to see you ended up at Columbia... I just heard that I was accepted!

[cahesu]

*(Speaking of sketchy things...)

[Lem37]

By the way, I know who both of you are (Lem and James), but you guys don't know me!!!! Not to sound sketchy or something....lol

That was like...the sketchiest thing ever. Of course, my avatar is a picture of me.

Hey Lem37, I followed your cycle last year on LSN as I have very similar numbers! Good to see you ended up at Columbia... I just heard that I was accepted!

Congrats! I hope you're planning to join us!

[imchuckbass58]

Not sure if this is something you can answer, but how many non-NY based BigLaw firms recruit a Columbia? I really want a clerkship followed by biglaw, and Columbia would be my first choice for either

Old data, but in 2007, 599 firms came, of which only 133 were NYC.

http://columbia.lawschoolnumbers.com/careers

Probably less ITE, but it gives you a general idea.

[choosing a ls]

http://www.top-law-schools.com/forums/v ... 1&t=111893

advice on my decision re columbia/nyu?

[Frank]

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[Series70]

In particular, everyone is pretty interested in the initiative to combine Columbia's LRAP with the Federal program; there's all kinds of mathematical messiness involved, but for those planning to do goverment/not-for-profit for 10 years in the US, it could almost eliminate loan repayment. So that's pretty popular.

Thanks to all of you for taking questions. I, too, am very interested in this idea--would anyone be able to elaborate? Is there a real possibility of this happening in the near future?

[Frank]

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[Antipodean]

By the way, I know who both of you are (Lem and James), but you guys don't know me!!!! Not to sound sketchy or something....lol

Heh. Being the only Australasian in the class, it's pretty hard to hide. And Lem is using a self-tar.


Anyway, here is a very rough guide of Columbia's LRAP, the Federal LRAP, and the why/hows of combining them. If you're basing your career around LRAP, then you'll definitely want to get in touch with the Financial Aid office.

Columbia's LRAP
Eligibility: Covers all careers covered by the Federal Program, and more. In particular, Columbia will cover international not-for-profit employers.
Method: You make the full required payment every month. Columbia lends you money to help pay - how much depends upon your income - and you owe that to Columbia instead. Columbia forgives that debt starting at 3 years, completely by 5 years.
If You Drop Out: You're still current with your original lender. You only have to repay Columbia any currently unforgiven amounts.

Federal LRAP
Eligibility: Covers government and US not-for-profit employers.
Method: In the program, you make reduced loan payments, which are based upon your income. After 120 income-sensitive repayments, your entire loan is forgiven.
If You Drop Out: You're not current with your original lender - the total amount you saved is whacked back on top of your loan, with interest.

On their own, each program ends up forgiving about 50% of a typical student's debt. However, because they do it in different ways, layering them on top of one another does not result in their debt elimination adding together - the more Columbia pays you up-front, the less the government ends up forgiving in 10 years time.

Columbia's implementing a modified LRAP program designed to combine well with the Federal Program and produce maximum debt elimination. In the current proposal, Columbia would be basically making your Federal LRAP income-based repayments for you; and because they were lower, Columbia would be assisting you more, and for longer. However, that would still leave the risk that if you dropped out of the Federal Program, you'd get hit pretty hard.

Scuttlebutt is that some Excel-wizard from the Public Interest Law Foundation has calculated a way to combine the programs that reduces the risk incurred by dropping out; the Dean's been very keen to gather student feedback, so we'll see if that bears fruit.

Either way, a Combined program is going to happen in the near future, and it will provide greater loan forgiveness than either current option. The only question is whether it will retain the drop-out risks of the current Federal Program or not.

[Frank]

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[Frank]

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[Frank]

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[charlym]

Will CLS be reviewing its grade system after Harvard and Stanford?
I think I read something about Dean Schizer heading a committee that would consider some sort of a reform, do you have any updates on this?

[Frank]

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