WUSTL Recent Grad (and others) Taking Questions Forum

[LawsRUs]

StL firms don't want washU kids, so WashU kids go elsewhere so StL firms think WashU kids don't want to be here so StL firms don't want washU kids, etc.

Ah: a catch-22!!

[westave]

Hey guys - this is kinda obscure, but any idea how students pay for the summer in south africa or other study abroad opportunities? Does the school offer schollies or are they mostly out of pocket? Thanks in advance

[Unagi]

So my question is, do St. Louis firms look closely if your ties had been present before you came to WUSTL, or can ties be established during your time at WUSTL? (Does that make sense?)

Thanks, as always.

No, not really. If you didn't go to high school here, good luck.

I think this is heavily exaggerated on here. Most of the current 3Ls I know that have STL big law jobs lined up did not go to high school in St. Louis. its a hurdle, but it is by no means some sort of insurmountable barrier.

Agreed. I know people from NY and Chicago with no ties to STL other than going to WUSTL that got jobs at St. Louis firms.
FWIW, I'm from another country (so really no ties at all), don't have amazing grades and still got offers from STL firms.

[hoos89]

Of course, every 2L/3L knows people like that. But that kind of anecdotal evidence does not overturn the fact that it is way easier to get a job in St. Louis if you're from here, and that it's a major risk to come to WUSTL with aspirations of getting a firm job in STL but without ties here. Firms' prejudices against out-of-towners are real, and should not be minimized.

[TatteredDignity]

I'm going to print the above quote, and I'm going to keep a copy in my wallet and keep another copy on the wall on top of my desk. This is the best realistic advice anyone has given to me. Thank you,

[ultimately matriculates at sticker price]

[LawsRUs]

I'm going to print the above quote, and I'm going to keep a copy in my wallet and keep another copy on the wall on top of my desk. This is the best realistic advice anyone has given to me. Thank you,

[ultimately matriculates at sticker price]

whait theres no way im gonna matriculate at sticker at any LS-- from what ppl hv been telling me and im convinced that LS is not worth sticker
unless im wrong :p

the quote was just something that wld help me keep motivated n not slack off, thats all

edit:on a second thought i think it might be your way of telling me of annoyance with my stupid 0L Qs. i will go back to reading it from pp 103 n stop posting itt

[DoveBodyWash]

Of course, every 2L/3L knows people like that. But that kind of anecdotal evidence does not overturn the fact that it is way easier to get a job in St. Louis if you're from here, and that it's a major risk to come to WUSTL with aspirations of getting a firm job in STL but without ties here. Firms' prejudices against out-of-towners are real, and should not be minimized.

Hoos is on point. And this is mostly a function of how little hiring is done in St. Louis than it is any due to some deficiency of WUSTL. The school is basically Harvard in the area and firms pretty much take the position that "We must have X number of WUSTL kids in our class" when they come to OCI. Sure they might not hire any at all one year but that's highly unusual. The goal is to have a certain number of WUSTL students. The problem is that the summer classes at each of these firms are small and they might only be looking to hire 1-4 WUSTL students every year. Even if you're from St. Louis it's an uphill battle and there's a ton of luck involved (for OCI generally as well).

the picture is not rosy at wustl eh?
with median grades
what the frack does everyone do then who finishes in the bottom half? personal anecdotes will help..

Median from almost all schools is a tough spot, even at many T14's. I have a friend at WUSTL who finished median after 1L but managed to get an SA job with Chicago litigation firm via diligent mass mailing, but that's probably not the normal case.

From reading a good chunk of this thread, it seems like there's a lot of self-selection toward St.Louis/Chicago/home markets that makes it tough to gauge NYC placement. So I'm wondering, anecdotally, how those who come to WUSTL targeting NYC usually do?

Like anywhere else at washu, it's doable provided the grades are there. From what I've heard, the current 2L class is doing really well in NYC for the upcoming summer. Not to beat a dead horse, but I can't emphasize enough that none of this is applicable without solid grades.

Personally i think NYC offers you the best odds just because (1) they don't really care about ties*; and (2) there are SOO many jobs compared to other markets. For example Chicago is probably the second biggest market for 2L hiring after NYC (assuming we're splitting SoCal/NorCal as separate markets) and the largest classes in Chicago rarely reach 45, and there are less firms in Chicago. There are so many more firms in NYC and they routinely have 80-120 people in their SA classes. NYC hiring is probably the closest you'll get to a pure meritocracy in that if you have strong grades from a decent school, you have a shot. Whereas the same couldn't be said for other markets that also consider shit like ties

*Yes they "care" about ties enough to ask you why you want to work in NYC. But you just say "because NYC is the best and all other markets are shit" and they're just like "yeah you're right, so [next question]"

[svx5013]

is it the case that international JD students literally got no chance at all (or almost) to land a legal job in the entire US with a WashULaw degree????

[ub3r]

WUSTL just offered me a big scholarship. But I'm pretty set on working in NorCal after school. I've done my research and seen the numbers, but does anyone have any anecdotal input about that? I'm slowly crawling though the topic pages, so sorry if this was recently answered.

And man, I just don't know if I want to live in St. Louis for 3 years.

[TatteredDignity]

Probably more harmful than helpful to tell you this, but two of the top 3 students in my class after 1L year transferred to Berkeley and Stanford, where I imagine they had their pick of NorCal jobs. So, you know, just crush 1L and you're set.

(incidentally, they were both huge splitters, FWIW. All three of the top three were, actually)

I have no idea what placement there is like for those who don't transfer, though. Guessing it's not great.

[chuckbass]

We have a large amount of people from CA here, and tbh I don't understand why you wouldn't just go to UCLA/USC. It still won't be easy to get what you want there, but I still think that would be a better bet.

[ub3r]

Thanks for the honest answers. I really like WUSTL but I just happen to like California more.

[chuckbass]

Thanks for the honest answers. I really like WUSTL but I just happen to like California more.

Np. I guess maybe WUSTL gives way more $$$ than USC/UCLA and that sways people to come here, but other than that I don't really see the reason not to go to one of two peer schools in the state and closer to the market you want to be in. The school is trying to increase CA placement, but that's a tough task given the market and the over saturation in CA.

[TatteredDignity]

Thanks for the honest answers. I really like WUSTL but I just happen to like California more.

Np. I guess maybe WUSTL gives way more $$$ than USC/UCLA and that sways people to come here, but other than that I don't really see the reason not to go to one of two peer schools in the state and closer to the market you want to be in. The school is trying to increase CA placement, but that's a tough task given the market and the over saturation in CA.

It's not just the money, it's that WUSTL is much more splitter-friendly than USC/UCLA (thus why I mentioned the splitter thing).

[chuckbass]

Thanks for the honest answers. I really like WUSTL but I just happen to like California more.

Np. I guess maybe WUSTL gives way more $$$ than USC/UCLA and that sways people to come here, but other than that I don't really see the reason not to go to one of two peer schools in the state and closer to the market you want to be in. The school is trying to increase CA placement, but that's a tough task given the market and the over saturation in CA.

It's not just the money, it's that WUSTL is much more splitter-friendly than USC/UCLA (thus why I mentioned the splitter thing).

Oh right duh that makes sense.

[ub3r]

I've actually suspected that WUSTL does worse in California than it would like even since I asked my interviewer about it. He obviously wanted to tell me what he thought I wanted to hear but he was also honest enough to suggest that the best way to come back and work in CA after WUSTL is to have CA connections in place before even enrolling.

[hoos89]

There aren't a whole lot of schools that place well in California. Not at all surprising that WUSTL is not one of them, and that isn't really one of the school's top priorities either.

[JCougar]

WUSTL just offered me a big scholarship. But I'm pretty set on working in NorCal after school. I've done my research and seen the numbers, but does anyone have any anecdotal input about that? I'm slowly crawling though the topic pages, so sorry if this was recently answered.

And man, I just don't know if I want to live in St. Louis for 3 years.

Honestly, the people from California from my class mostly all found California jobs. They certainly weren't as screwed as the Chicago people.

[Jon_Snow]

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[sublime]

..

[Dolphine]

is it the case that international JD students literally got no chance at all (or almost) to land a legal job in the entire US with a WashULaw degree????

That's not entirely true, but if you need someone to sponsor you, then you're pretty much big law or bust, so shoot for NYC and you already know the grades you need for that.

I've heard Sadat is a huge help for some of our international JDs looking for a job in the states.

[svx5013]

is it the case that international JD students literally got no chance at all (or almost) to land a legal job in the entire US with a WashULaw degree????

That's not entirely true, but if you need someone to sponsor you, then you're pretty much big law or bust, so shoot for NYC and you already know the grades you need for that.

I've heard Sadat is a huge help for some of our international JDs looking for a job in the states.

Thanks for your advice!
But I don't have any options in NYC at this point. Would you recommend GW over WUSTL in terms of job prospects? (I am hopelessly non-preferred waitlisted by GULC)

[hoos89]

What do you mean you "don't have options in NYC"?

[svx5013]

What do you mean you "don't have options in NYC"?

Oooh!!! now i got it! he actually meant grades in law school, i thought he meant LSAT/UGPA for NYC law schools....

[pamphleteer]

Hey guys. Still waiting to hear back on $$ from WUSTL and still waiting to hear back on a decision, period, from UIUC so I know this is a bit premature but I'm thinking I'll get substantial schollies at both schools. I have a strong preference for the Chicago market, so would you advise me to attend Illinois over WUSTL (assuming similar COA) despite the difference in preftige/national recognition/rank/etc.? In general how difficult is it for WUSTL students to crack the Chicago market? Do more students who land a firm gig end up there than NYC or is it the other way around? Thanks!