WUSTL Recent Grad (and others) Taking Questions Forum

[hoos89]

So my question is, do St. Louis firms look closely if your ties had been present before you came to WUSTL, or can ties be established during your time at WUSTL? (Does that make sense?)

Thanks, as always.

No, not really. If you didn't go to high school here, good luck.

[LawsRUs]

okay i see. thanks !!

[Iagreetotheseterms]

Thank you guys for answering my question. Having to rent a car every now and then is acceptable, I just prefer to be able to walk around or take public transportation. I guess I just have to pick the right location.

[konar]

So my question is, do St. Louis firms look closely if your ties had been present before you came to WUSTL, or can ties be established during your time at WUSTL? (Does that make sense?)

Thanks, as always.

No, not really. If you didn't go to high school here, good luck.

I think this is heavily exaggerated on here. Most of the current 3Ls I know that have STL big law jobs lined up did not go to high school in St. Louis. its a hurdle, but it is by no means some sort of insurmountable barrier.

[dardardelight]

Can anybody vouch for WUSTL placement into federal agencies such as the DOE, EPA, commerce, etc? I'm interested in getting an honors clerkship in either the EPA or DOE, and am just wondering if the clinics at Washu and the DC semester in practice provide me with the right resources. My decision might have to be washU / GW. Staying in DC seems like a no-brainer, but I really like the small class size, campus feel, and opportunities to study Chinese language/legal studies at WashU .

Basically, how's fed gov placement for people who are super focused and devoted upon entering WashU??

[Big Red]

From reading a good chunk of this thread, it seems like there's a lot of self-selection toward St.Louis/Chicago/home markets that makes it tough to gauge NYC placement. So I'm wondering, anecdotally, how those who come to WUSTL targeting NYC usually do?

[LET'S GET IT]

So my question is, do St. Louis firms look closely if your ties had been present before you came to WUSTL, or can ties be established during your time at WUSTL? (Does that make sense?)

Thanks, as always.

No, not really. If you didn't go to high school here, good luck.

I think this is heavily exaggerated on here. Most of the current 3Ls I know that have STL big law jobs lined up did not go to high school in St. Louis. its a hurdle, but it is by no means some sort of insurmountable barrier.

Yeah I agree. I certainly respect Hoos opinion, but there are ways of overcoming it with good grades. I would certainly think your parents living here would be a pretty solid one.

[LET'S GET IT]

From reading a good chunk of this thread, it seems like there's a lot of self-selection toward St.Louis/Chicago/home markets that makes it tough to gauge NYC placement. So I'm wondering, anecdotally, how those who come to WUSTL targeting NYC usually do?

Like anywhere else at washu, it's doable provided the grades are there. From what I've heard, the current 2L class is doing really well in NYC for the upcoming summer. Not to beat a dead horse, but I can't emphasize enough that none of this is applicable without solid grades.

[notedgarfigaro]

Can anybody vouch for WUSTL placement into federal agencies such as the DOE, EPA, commerce, etc? I'm interested in getting an honors clerkship in either the EPA or DOE, and am just wondering if the clinics at Washu and the DC semester in practice provide me with the right resources. My decision might have to be washU / GW. Staying in DC seems like a no-brainer, but I really like the small class size, campus feel, and opportunities to study Chinese language/legal studies at WashU .

Basically, how's fed gov placement for people who are super focused and devoted upon entering WashU??

Doing the dc clinic will help tremendously, unfortunately you have to sit through Friday afternoons with Jackson. That said, I've got think that actually being in dc for 3 years would be better.

[hoos89]

So my question is, do St. Louis firms look closely if your ties had been present before you came to WUSTL, or can ties be established during your time at WUSTL? (Does that make sense?)

Thanks, as always.

No, not really. If you didn't go to high school here, good luck.

I think this is heavily exaggerated on here. Most of the current 3Ls I know that have STL big law jobs lined up did not go to high school in St. Louis. its a hurdle, but it is by no means some sort of insurmountable barrier.

Fine it's a slight exaggeration. That said pretty much everyone I can think of with a job at one of the major STL firms is top ~5%, diverse, and/or from here. Even with great grades and reasonable ties to STL, if you're not from here you should expect people to be skeptical of your desire to stay here.

[sublime]

..

[JCougar]

Can anybody vouch for WUSTL placement into federal agencies such as the DOE, EPA, commerce, etc? I'm interested in getting an honors clerkship in either the EPA or DOE, and am just wondering if the clinics at Washu and the DC semester in practice provide me with the right resources. My decision might have to be washU / GW. Staying in DC seems like a no-brainer, but I really like the small class size, campus feel, and opportunities to study Chinese language/legal studies at WashU .

Basically, how's fed gov placement for people who are super focused and devoted upon entering WashU??

There's really not enough FedGov positions open each year to get a really good measure on how one school places with respect to others. I can say that Labor does OCI at WUSTL, and Labor is one of the more selective agencies out there. It's hard for me to have a good perspective, though, because when I was there, basically every agency had a hiring freeze. I think those are generally thawing.

I do know a handful of people in FedGov, and with WUSTL on your resume, you usually get treated with respect. I don't really think going to GW over WUSTL will give you much of a boost, though, if any. The most exciting FedGov positions, IMO, are in field offices doing litigation around the country. In that case, you're better off doing an internship at that particular office. But if you want to be holed up in a bureaucracy in DC doing policy work, DC might be better suited for you.

WUSTL has plenty of externship opportunities in DC, but doing internships/externships during school aren't a great way to get hired full-time when you graduate when it comes to FedGov. It's not like a private firm, where they say "hey, I like this guy/gal, lets hire them." You have to apply through USA Jobs for a lot of positions, and the HR bureaucracy in DC sorts those resumes, there's all sorts of considerations that go into who to hire besides just doing an internship there. And you have to hope that Congress has given them enough of a budget when you graduate to hire anyone at all. This is sometimes hard to predict. If you graduate after 2016, it might make a huge difference who's controlling the Presidency/Congress. It's extremely bureaucratic and political. Having agency/public interest experience on your resume helps, especially if it's in that particular area. FedGov doesn't like to spend a ton of money training people, so get as much hands-on experience as possible, so you semi-know what you're doing. Then just cross your fingers that there's no budget austerity when you finish law school.

Also, be prepared to volunteer for a year or two (with no guarantee of a job) provided that there's no budget to hire you. Fed and local government agencies can get away with this because your labor is in the public interest.

[WheatThins]

So my question is, do St. Louis firms look closely if your ties had been present before you came to WUSTL, or can ties be established during your time at WUSTL? (Does that make sense?)

Thanks, as always.

No, not really. If you didn't go to high school here, good luck.

I think this is heavily exaggerated on here. Most of the current 3Ls I know that have STL big law jobs lined up did not go to high school in St. Louis. its a hurdle, but it is by no means some sort of insurmountable barrier.

Yeah I agree. I certainly respect Hoos opinion, but there are ways of overcoming it with good grades. I would certainly think your parents living here would be a pretty solid one.

Not really. Maybe you should wait to get through OCI and then share your experience. From my experience, I had interviews at almost every NYC firm at EIW, and at almost every Non-STL firm at OCI. I didn't get a single interview in St. Louis. I also know people in the top of the class with ties to the city who have great biglaw offers elsewhere who couldn't get a STL firm to bite. I wouldn't go to any law school with the sole goal of working in a St. Louis firm, that's for sure.

[chuckbass]

Yea I mean, I heard the 2L class got slaughtered in STL this year fwiw.

[sublime]

..

[LawsRUs]

so much info--thank you everybody. i'll definitely take into account and keep in mind differences in opinion, and the level of disagreement, wrt St. Louis firms. (I also shld've mentioned earlier that I wasn't interested in big law St. Louis if that makes any difference. Probably not. :p.)

Do you hear any rumors or talks circulating around CSO recently, maybe talking about changing the "apathetic" attitude of St. Louis firms? Maybe strengthening the relationship btwn WUSTL and St. Louis? Or is it more concerned with expanding its arms to the West Coast and NYC?

[LawsRUs]

If you graduate after 2016, it might make a huge difference who's controlling the Presidency/Congress. It's extremely bureaucratic and political. .

i kno..D; you dont understand how closely im following any and all news re presidential electn 2016..

just for the reasons you stated

[JCougar]

Do you hear any rumors or talks circulating around CSO recently, maybe talking about changing the "apathetic" attitude of St. Louis firms? Maybe strengthening the relationship btwn WUSTL and St. Louis? Or is it more concerned with expanding its arms to the West Coast and NYC?

The reason St. Louis firms don't hire WUSTL students from out of state is pretty much common sense. It's not an apathetic attitude, nor is it the relationship with the CSO. They've done it in the past, and it's backfired countless times. They don't want to hire someone that's only going to be around for a year or two and then bounce to either Chicago or NYC. St. Louis Biglaw is a lot less up and out than NYC, which really could care less if you last a year or two.

Otherwise, these offices pay the cost of training you for your first year, and the Chicago/NYC firms reap the benefits after you lateral. Why would they do that when they have perfectly good people from St. Louis who will stay?

tl;dr version: St. Louis firms hire people that are likely to stay with them long-term--and that happens to not be people from the coasts (or Chicago).

[LawsRUs]

dam...i got it now. i understand it.
shit b/c im from a coast.
time to rethink..

o thanks btw

[LawsRUs]

the picture is not rosy at wustl eh?
with median grades
what the frack does everyone do then who finishes in the bottom half? personal anecdotes will help..

[JCougar]

what the frack does everyone do then who finishes in the bottom half? personal anecdotes will help..

Scratch and claw at anything they can get that at least somewhat resembles a legal job? Work for a relative? Work for free? Doc review? Insurance defense in the boonies while you live with your parents if you're lucky? Slip 'n fall/ambulance chasing? Start their own practice with no clients, money or experience? Work for some crazy solo that's psychologically abusive/gets disbarred/botches a major case and goes out of business/kills themselves, and then you're out of a job? Marry someone who actually has an income? Goes into entrepreneurship outside of law? Maybe squeak into a decent small firm if you're a hot chick?

You name it, I've seen it. They do whatever all the other people do that can't get a job from OCI at similarly-ranked or even better-ranked schools. I know multiple people in almost all of those categories...not all went to WUSTL, but a lot did. A good number of them went to T10 or even T6 schools and struck out at OCI because they were perceived as too public interest-oriented or just weren't good interviewers. Except there's almost zero paying public interest jobs...so you end up getting thrown to the wolves and there's absolutely no plan.

[LawsRUs]

So I went back and thought and thought about and synthesized what everyone has said, esp JCoug
and the conclusion that i came up with is thus:
(I dont know if you didn't say this to me outright due to politeness or something)

If I end up matriculating at WUSTL and have the honor and privilege of working for a St. Louis firm, I should effing stay with the firm for a couple of years if not for many years in order not to hurt WUSTL students in the future classes.

Is that basically "it?"

[sublime]

..

[JCougar]

So I went back and thought and thought about and synthesized what everyone has said, esp JCoug
and the conclusion that i came up with is thus:
(I dont know if you didn't say this to me outright due to politeness or something)

If I end up matriculating at WUSTL and have the honor and privilege of working for a St. Louis firm, I should effing stay with the firm for a couple of years if not for many years in order not to hurt WUSTL students in the future classes.

Is that basically "it?"

Eh, the damage has already been done. I doubt anything you do alone will change anything.

[LawsRUs]

what the frack does everyone do then who finishes in the bottom half? personal anecdotes will help..

Scratch and claw at anything they can get that at least somewhat resembles a legal job? Work for a relative? Work for free? Doc review? Insurance defense in the boonies while you live with your parents if you're lucky? Slip 'n fall/ambulance chasing? Start their own practice with no clients, money or experience? Work for some crazy solo that's psychologically abusive/gets disbarred/botches a major case and goes out of business/kills themselves, and then you're out of a job? Marry someone who actually has an income? Goes into entrepreneurship outside of law? Maybe squeak into a decent small firm if you're a hot chick?

You name it, I've seen it. They do whatever all the other people do that can't get a job from OCI at similarly-ranked or even better-ranked schools. I know multiple people in almost all of those categories...not all went to WUSTL, but a lot did. A good number of them went to T10 or even T6 schools and struck out at OCI because they were perceived as too public interest-oriented or just weren't good interviewers. Except there's almost zero paying public interest jobs...so you end up getting thrown to the wolves and there's absolutely no plan.

I'm going to print the above quote, and I'm going to keep a copy in my wallet and keep another copy on the wall on top of my desk. This is the best realistic advice anyone has given to me. Thank you,