WUSTL Recent Grad (and others) Taking Questions Forum

[Dolphine]

For any of the elders here, do you remember how long it took the STL/other MW firms to get back with callbacks? I know it's early but I was just wondering at what point I can keep up hope or just give up.

[hoos89]

Smaller markets are generally slower than NYC, Chicago, etc. This still varies by firm, but generally it's not a death knell if you don't hear within a couple of days from a St Louis firm. That said, if you hear of others with callbacks at a firm, you're probably not getting one (not always true though).

[theycallmefoes]

So, Mandelker's final is apparently a take-home exam. Is this different from previous years? If not, how much time will we be given to complete the exam?

I didn't take it, but I believe his land use take home exam was 8 hours, 30k word limit. I was studying in the journal office, and a friend went into one of the editor's offices to take it...said person went straight through, no breaks (including bathroom).

So yeah, but then again, Mandelker is lazy, and I don't think he'll want to read 90 30k word exams.

Thanks for the input. Also, derp - the syllabus actually says that we will have 8 hours for the exam. RC!fail. DX As far as the word limit goes, it'll be 5 questions, limited to 300 word answers.

hahaha he wanted to do take-home with my class but so many people protested that he switched it back to in-class. But a 8 hour take-home exam for 1500 words??? Interested to see how that distribution looks when it's over lol

Really? Why were people so against the take-home exam? I would think that would be preferable. And 8 hours for only 1500 words is a little terrifying.

[sublime]

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[theycallmefoes]

I won't take a class with a take home exam. Fuck that. Esp with that word limit.

Why?

[theycallmefoes]

A few questions about practice exams:

1. As a general rule, are there a decent number of practice exams available for 1Ls? More specifically, I'm curious about Badawi, Goldwasser, and Mandelker.

2a. Are there exam banks made available through any organizations, in the library, etc.?
b. Are exams posted online? I saw a link for WUSTL's exam site, but it's password-protected, and my log-in information doesn't work. Is there a different site, or will this be made available once classes start?
c. Any point in looking at PTs from other professors teaching the same courses, or are the exams really professor-specific?

3a. Best practice exam strategies - e.g., start early, match specific PT questions to topics covered in class (i.e., after reviewing a certain topic, find a corresponding PT question that tests that knowledge), etc.?
b. What about taking the same PT more than once - helpful?
c. Any external PT sources that are particularly useful (i.e., from other law schools)?

Also, answers to the same questions - but applied to outlines (e.g., organizations with outline banks, etc.) - would be quite helpful as well.

[sublime]

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[theycallmefoes]

I won't take a class with a take home exam. Fuck that. Esp with that word limit.

Why?

Although I don't type fast, my strength is being able to quickly identify issues that others missed. Racehorses fuck me a bit because of my typing speed, and for takehome exams, it gives everybody more time to get a good answer, theoretically flattening the curve.

My ideal test is super complex 3 hour hypo with a word limit.

When you are graded on a curve, it isn't about how good you are, but how much better or worse you are than everybody else.

Although since 1L you don't have a choice, don't worry too much about this shit, but if you have any deficiencies that will hurt you on a certain format you have, I think it is worthwhile to try to correct it, via practice tests or whatever.


And an 8 hour exam with a 1500 word limit seems to be just a complete pain in the ass. I get that Mandy is lazy (and will still take forever to grade them) but that seems excessively strict.

Ah, I see your point about the curve. Thanks for the clarification. And while I feel like 8 hours for 1500 words is absurdly restrictive, I can't help but feel that having that much time would allow me to perfect the shit out of my exam to the point that it's superior (*cougharrogantcough*) in comparison to others, even though they have the same advantage. Maybe I'm just naive.

[sublime]

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[theycallmefoes]

Although I don't type fast, my strength is being able to quickly identify issues that others missed. Racehorses fuck me a bit because of my typing speed, and for takehome exams, it gives everybody more time to get a good answer, theoretically flattening the curve.

My ideal test is super complex 3 hour hypo with a word limit.

When you are graded on a curve, it isn't about how good you are, but how much better or worse you are than everybody else.

Although since 1L you don't have a choice, don't worry too much about this shit, but if you have any deficiencies that will hurt you on a certain format you have, I think it is worthwhile to try to correct it, via practice tests or whatever.

And an 8 hour exam with a 1500 word limit seems to be just a complete pain in the ass. I get that Mandy is lazy (and will still take forever to grade them) but that seems excessively strict.

Ah, I see your point about the curve. Thanks for the clarification. And while I feel like 8 hours for 1500 words is absurdly restrictive, I can't help but feel that having that much time would allow me to perfect the shit out of my exam to the point that it's superior (*cougharrogantcough*) in comparison to others, even though they have the same advantage. Maybe I'm just naive.

I mean, maybe you are a better editor, or better at being concise than most. No way to really know at this point.

True.

As far as your PT questions go, usually WUSTL gives you two from the exam bank, sometimes profs will give you additional ones in class, and sometimes you can get them from upperclassmen.

Are there any campus organizations/groups with PT and/or outline banks?

[sublime]

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[theycallmefoes]

Phi Alpha Delta has an outline bank. PT's are harder to come by.

Thank you for the info! Definitely joining PAD then.

I don't mean to be obnoxious, but are there any 2L or 3L WUSTL TLSers willing to share old exams for Badawi, Goldwasser, and/or Mandelker? I feel like this may not be an appropriate way of going about it, but I literally do not know anyone at WUSTL, and I can't see myself seeking out random students to ask for resources in-person. Anyway, if you're willing, please, please send me a PM. Otherwise, just ignore this. Thanks!

[hoos89]

I doubt anyone would have any that aren't available online. You aren't supposed to keep the exam.

[theycallmefoes]

I doubt anyone would have any that aren't available online. You aren't supposed to keep the exam.

Ah, I see. Ignorant 0L is ignorant.

[theycallmefoes]

Still interested in getting more feedback for these questions:

2c. Any point in looking at PTs from other professors teaching the same courses, or are the exams really professor-specific?

3a. Best practice exam strategies - e.g., start early, match specific PT questions to topics covered in class (i.e., after reviewing a certain topic, find a corresponding PT question that tests that knowledge), etc.?
b. What about taking the same PT more than once - helpful?
c. Any external PT sources that are particularly useful (i.e., from other law schools)?

[nachosrgood]

Anyone who took evidence with Rosen:
1) Did you have one required textbook (Federal Rules of Evidence) and two recommended textbooks (Evidentiary Foundations and the Learning Evidence CaseBook)?

2) Should we purchase the recommended textbooks?

Also, feel free to pm me if you want to sell me any of those materials.

[theycallmefoes]

I've gotten some pretty detailed advice about how to do well in Mandelker's class, which I greatly appreciate. Anybody have specific tips for Badawi and Goldwasser's classes?

[notedgarfigaro]

Anyone who took evidence with Rosen:
1) Did you have one required textbook (Federal Rules of Evidence) and two recommended textbooks (Evidentiary Foundations and the Learning Evidence CaseBook)?

2) Should we purchase the recommended textbooks?

Also, feel free to pm me if you want to sell me any of those materials.

do not buy the recommended books- he used to have them as mandatory and no one (in the know) bought them. He changed it starting last semester. He gives you his handouts, which are all you need. Also, you can get a free FRE (mini version) from westlaw I think.

[theycallmefoes]

What are the RA positions like? Specifically, how many hours per week are you expected to work, or does it vary depending on the professor? Also, how manageable is it to work as an RA during the semester (say, during 2L) - especially if your goal is top 5-10% of the class? The Dean's Fellowship guarantees a "summer or semester" RA position - does this mean the choice is up to us? I'm curious, because I would like to have an SA job. Is it remotely conceivable to do both during the summer, or are there not enough hours in the week?

[TatteredDignity]

Anybody have specific tips for Goldwasser's classes?

Cases don't matter, extract the BLL from them, learn the BLL cold, take a tom of PTs and get ready to race (though the racing isn't excessive--some ppl ITT typed like 16,000 words on her exam, but in my year ~7,000 was enough to CALI it).

[sublime]

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[hoos89]

Anybody have specific tips for Goldwasser's classes?

Cases don't matter, extract the BLL from them, learn the BLL cold, take a tom of PTs and get ready to race (though the racing isn't excessive--some ppl ITT typed like 16,000 words on her exam, but in my year ~7,000 was enough to CALI it).

You only really need to get up to around 4500-5000 on that exam to do very well (at least my year). The highest I heard was 7k (I think all those 16k exams were Tamanaha, but I could be wrong). She will offer to go over a practice exam question with you. Do it. She'll spend 45 minutes telling you exactly how she wants it. And like TD said, don't worry about citing cases. She explicitly told us not to mention cases.

[TatteredDignity]

Anybody have specific tips for Goldwasser's classes?

Cases don't matter, extract the BLL from them, learn the BLL cold, take a tom of PTs and get ready to race (though the racing isn't excessive--some ppl ITT typed like 16,000 words on her exam, but in my year ~7,000 was enough to CALI it).

You only really need to get up to around 4500-5000 on that exam to do very well (at least my year). The highest I heard was 7k (I think all those 16k exams were Tamanaha, but I could be wrong). She will offer to go over a practice exam question with you. Do it. She'll spend 45 minutes telling you exactly how she wants it. And like TD said, don't worry about citing cases. She explicitly told us not to mention cases.

You're right, the sick numbers cuse and others were throwing out were for tamanaha. Good call.

And I 2nd the advice to go over exams with her. Forgot about that. It's all fading farther into the past...

[theycallmefoes]

What are the RA positions like? Specifically, how many hours per week are you expected to work, or does it vary depending on the professor? Also, how manageable is it to work as an RA during the semester (say, during 2L) - especially if your goal is top 5-10% of the class? The Dean's Fellowship guarantees a "summer or semester" RA position - does this mean the choice is up to us? I'm curious, because I would like to have an SA job. Is it remotely conceivable to do both during the summer, or are there not enough hours in the week?

varies based on the Prof, working a small number of hours during the semester is doable, I wouldn't recommend doing a summer Ra on top of any full time summer job, and the deans fellowship is new, so you will have to ask admissions ab that.

Thanks for the feedback. Appreciate it.

[theycallmefoes]

Anybody have specific tips for Goldwasser's classes?

Cases don't matter, extract the BLL from them, learn the BLL cold, take a tom of PTs and get ready to race (though the racing isn't excessive--some ppl ITT typed like 16,000 words on her exam, but in my year ~7,000 was enough to CALI it).

Thanks so much for the advice. I feel like courses that emphasize BLL heavily will come more easily to me, so that's good to know. 7k is still a really respectable length, I think. I've always had issues with timed essays, so that worries me a bit.

You only really need to get up to around 4500-5000 on that exam to do very well (at least my year). The highest I heard was 7k (I think all those 16k exams were Tamanaha, but I could be wrong). She will offer to go over a practice exam question with you. Do it. She'll spend 45 minutes telling you exactly how she wants it. And like TD said, don't worry about citing cases. She explicitly told us not to mention cases.

You're right, the sick numbers cuse and others were throwing out were for tamanaha. Good call.

And I 2nd the advice to go over exams with her. Forgot about that. It's all fading farther into the past...

Thanks to both of you for the advice - I'll definitely be sure to visit her during office hours to review exam materials. Also, 16k is insane. I think I would die.

Anybody use the Law in a Flash Cards - either for Goldwasser's class/torts or in another course? I've heard that they can be useful for classes like torts, so I was contemplating getting some - or maybe I'll make my own flashcards. Or not use them at all. I really don't know. Thoughts?