Columbia students taking questions Forum

[Tiago Splitter]

Lol sullcrom

Meanwhile cravath moving to v1 apparently does matter.

[Nebby]

Lol sullcrom

Meanwhile cravath moving to v1 apparently does matter.

Those poor souls. I hope they have minimal debt

[jbagelboy]

Lol sullcrom

Meanwhile cravath moving to v1 apparently does matter.

it really did seem to have a measurable impact on yield. in past years CSM yield has been below Wachtell and comparable to DPW and cleary

[Humbert Humbert]

For those who can't view it, here's the rest of the V10 for New York (accepted offers / extended offers)

Cravath: 26/36
Wachtell: 4/7
S&C: 4/34
Skadden: 15/35
Davis Polk: 13/28
Simpson: 11/57
Latham: 5/21
Kirkland: 5/29
Cleary: 18/62
Gibson: 9/26

Wachtell is 3/7

Good catch. Edited

[doctorjuris]

For those who can't view it, here's the rest of the V10 for New York (accepted offers / extended offers)

Cravath: 26/36
Wachtell: 3/7
S&C: 4/34
Skadden: 15/35
Davis Polk: 13/28
Simpson: 11/57
Latham: 5/21
Kirkland: 5/29
Cleary: 18/62
Gibson: 9/26

I'm at one of these firms and the number is off by a pretty substantial chunk.

[RSN]

For those who can't view it, here's the rest of the V10 for New York (accepted offers / extended offers)

Cravath: 26/36
Wachtell: 3/7
S&C: 4/34
Skadden: 15/35
Davis Polk: 13/28
Simpson: 11/57
Latham: 5/21
Kirkland: 5/29
Cleary: 18/62
Gibson: 9/26

I'm at one of these firms and the number is off by a pretty substantial chunk.

One that did a lot of pre-EIP hiring? That I would guess is the biggest factor in why the EIP results might be missing a lot.

[dabigchina]

What's up with Skadden's amazing yield? V5 preftige?

[Nebby]

What's up with Skadden's amazing yield? V5 preftige?

There's so many CLS people there that I assume it's some sort of combination of preftige and knowing people already there/going there and wanting to work with them.

[jbagelboy]

What's up with Skadden's amazing yield? V5 preftige?

There's so many CLS people there that I assume it's some sort of combination of preftige and knowing people already there/going there and wanting to work with them.

They are also giving offers to a different segment of the class than other V5 firms. The profile of the skadden offer is not the same as the sullcrom offer. Not making a value judgment between the two, its just how it is.

[texcellence]

What's up with Skadden's amazing yield? V5 preftige?

There's so many CLS people there that I assume it's some sort of combination of preftige and knowing people already there/going there and wanting to work with them.

They are also giving offers to a different segment of the class than other V5 firms. The profile of the skadden offer is not the same as the sullcrom offer. Not making a value judgment between the two, its just how it is.

what do you mean?

[Nebby]

What's up with Skadden's amazing yield? V5 preftige?

There's so many CLS people there that I assume it's some sort of combination of preftige and knowing people already there/going there and wanting to work with them.

They are also giving offers to a different segment of the class than other V5 firms. The profile of the skadden offer is not the same as the sullcrom offer. Not making a value judgment between the two, its just how it is.

what do you mean?

He means Skadden offers median students and sullcrom doesn't

[dabigchina]

What's up with Skadden's amazing yield? V5 preftige?

There's so many CLS people there that I assume it's some sort of combination of preftige and knowing people already there/going there and wanting to work with them.

They are also giving offers to a different segment of the class than other V5 firms. The profile of the skadden offer is not the same as the sullcrom offer. Not making a value judgment between the two, its just how it is.

what do you mean?

He means Skadden offers median students and sullcrom doesn't

I wasn't really comparing Skadden with S&C. I was more interested in how much better their yield is compared to STB/Latham/Kirkland, which I consider to be Skadden's peers in selectivity.

I guess the answer is v5 preftige then.

[jbagelboy]

What's up with Skadden's amazing yield? V5 preftige?

There's so many CLS people there that I assume it's some sort of combination of preftige and knowing people already there/going there and wanting to work with them.

They are also giving offers to a different segment of the class than other V5 firms. The profile of the skadden offer is not the same as the sullcrom offer. Not making a value judgment between the two, its just how it is.

what do you mean?

He means Skadden offers median students and sullcrom doesn't

Skadden would also reject a lot of the students receiving S&C callbacks

[AlexFergusonLS]

What factors do people use to decide firms? Is there a significant difference in firm quality, quality of life, and exit options? How useful are the rankings?

[almondjoy]

What factors do people use to decide firms? Is there a significant difference in firm quality, quality of life, and exit options? How useful are the rankings?

Perceived prestige and interactions with the "people" on callback interviews are probably the two biggest factors people use to choose firms (putting aside things like location and practice area preferences). Firm quality/exit options are largely the same for the top 20ish(?) firms, and I don't think there is a significant difference in quality of life no matter what the firm is ranked (although one or two firms, like WLRK, can be especially egregious).

[texteach]

Does anyone know where I could find, or can anyone provide, pictures of some of the housing in the W 115th/116th apartments? I couldn't find anything on Columbia's website, and I am trying to get an idea for space/furnishings. Any help would be super appreciated!

[derekne]

Keep in mind also that Columbia's ineptitude has earned us a poor reputation with many very important judges, such that they refuse to hire from us even though they may be willing to hire from lower ranked schools.

These judges include Griffith, Garland, Wilkinson, and Silberman.

That list doesn't include very influential judges who have simply never hired from us, even though they may not have a specific antipathy to the school- Sutton, Gorsuch, Pryor, Calabresi etc.

Is there any truth to this? I knew the clerkship office was poor but not to the level of Feeder Judges refusing to hire any CLS grads.

[jbagelboy]

Keep in mind also that Columbia's ineptitude has earned us a poor reputation with many very important judges, such that they refuse to hire from us even though they may be willing to hire from lower ranked schools.

These judges include Griffith, Garland, Wilkinson, and Silberman.

That list doesn't include very influential judges who have simply never hired from us, even though they may not have a specific antipathy to the school- Sutton, Gorsuch, Pryor, Calabresi etc.

Is there any truth to this? I knew the clerkship office was poor but not to the level of Feeder Judges refusing to hire any CLS grads.

I think I pushed back on this comment at the time, and I'd still say it's not a fair assessment. First I don't think it's plausible to draw a connection between the ineptitude of the school's clerkship office and the school's reputation among premier judges. Also it's true that a couple judges like Garland and Wilkinson have very rarely hired from CLS. At the same time, it's an objectively false statement to say that Calabresi and Sutton have not hired from CLS (so I question the source of the information). And some of the biggest feeder judges today such as Katzmann take CLS clerks every year.

[FascinatedWanderer]

What makes you think we've had a Sutton clerk? The handbook shows 0 Sutton clerks and 0 Calabresi clerks. That is accurate as far as I'm aware.

And I guarantee you my information is accurate with regard to Griffith (we sent precisely 1 to him, and there's a reason it's never happened again).

[lawlorbust]

Keep in mind also that Columbia's ineptitude has earned us a poor reputation with many very important judges, such that they refuse to hire from us even though they may be willing to hire from lower ranked schools.

These judges include Griffith, Garland, Wilkinson, and Silberman.

That list doesn't include very influential judges who have simply never hired from us, even though they may not have a specific antipathy to the school- Sutton, Gorsuch, Pryor, Calabresi etc.

Is there any truth to this? I knew the clerkship office was poor but not to the level of Feeder Judges refusing to hire any CLS grads.

I think I pushed back on this comment at the time, and I'd still say it's not a fair assessment. First I don't think it's plausible to draw a connection between the ineptitude of the school's clerkship office and the school's reputation among premier judges. Also it's true that a couple judges like Garland and Wilkinson have very rarely hired from CLS. At the same time, it's an objectively false statement to say that Calabresi and Sutton have not hired from CLS (so I question the source of the information). And some of the biggest feeder judges today such as Katzmann take CLS clerks every year.

No horse in this race, but your example would be more convincing if it wasn't the one feeder judge that you'd expect CLS to have, um, a massive home field advantage with?

[jbagelboy]

Keep in mind also that Columbia's ineptitude has earned us a poor reputation with many very important judges, such that they refuse to hire from us even though they may be willing to hire from lower ranked schools.

These judges include Griffith, Garland, Wilkinson, and Silberman.

That list doesn't include very influential judges who have simply never hired from us, even though they may not have a specific antipathy to the school- Sutton, Gorsuch, Pryor, Calabresi etc.

Is there any truth to this? I knew the clerkship office was poor but not to the level of Feeder Judges refusing to hire any CLS grads.

I think I pushed back on this comment at the time, and I'd still say it's not a fair assessment. First I don't think it's plausible to draw a connection between the ineptitude of the school's clerkship office and the school's reputation among premier judges. Also it's true that a couple judges like Garland and Wilkinson have very rarely hired from CLS. At the same time, it's an objectively false statement to say that Calabresi and Sutton have not hired from CLS (so I question the source of the information). And some of the biggest feeder judges today such as Katzmann take CLS clerks every year.

No horse in this race, but your example would be more convincing if it wasn't the one feeder judge that you'd expect CLS to have, um, a massive home field advantage with?

I used him as an example because he's been the second most important feeder in recent years (after Garland) and he takes 1-2 from CLS yearly. Kozinski, Posner, Leval, Boudin, Fletcher, Lynch, Livingston would all be other examples (although I suppose you'd call home field advantage on the last two as well). There are dozens of other judges that interview CLS students each year that are likely considered feeders (I don't have an authoritative guide and the standard is somewhat opaque to begin with). It would seem that CLS does do better with the 9th and 2nd Circuit judges than the major DC feeders right now, who tend to prefer Harvard/Chicago. I don't know why.

[RSN]

Yes, it's a shame that a number of very conservative feeders haven't hired from CLS, I guess. Might have something to do with the fact that we have about three right-leaning faculty members, none of whom have much in the way of judge relationships as far as I know. The only non-conservative our aggrieved FedSoc friend has mentioned is Garland, and he pretty much hires from HY only as far as I know (correct me if I'm wrong).

I don't think any of this is a reason a student shouldn't come to CLS.

[FascinatedWanderer]

Dude you have no credibility. Posner has taken one clerk from us. Ever.

Also, Katzmann took a CLS '15, but AFAIK has not taken any since. Are you just making stuff up as you go along? #alternativeclerkships

[FascinatedWanderer]

Keep in mind also that Columbia's ineptitude has earned us a poor reputation with many very important judges, such that they refuse to hire from us even though they may be willing to hire from lower ranked schools.

These judges include Griffith, Garland, Wilkinson, and Silberman.

That list doesn't include very influential judges who have simply never hired from us, even though they may not have a specific antipathy to the school- Sutton, Gorsuch, Pryor, Calabresi etc.

Is there any truth to this? I knew the clerkship office was poor but not to the level of Feeder Judges refusing to hire any CLS grads.

I think I pushed back on this comment at the time, and I'd still say it's not a fair assessment. First I don't think it's plausible to draw a connection between the ineptitude of the school's clerkship office and the school's reputation among premier judges. Also it's true that a couple judges like Garland and Wilkinson have very rarely hired from CLS. At the same time, it's an objectively false statement to say that Calabresi and Sutton have not hired from CLS (so I question the source of the information). And some of the biggest feeder judges today such as Katzmann take CLS clerks every year.

This is all just factually inaccurate, whether or not you agree with the analytical assessment.

[RSN]

I should add we have people at/going to Pillard, Srinivasan, Wilkins, Rogers... not like we suck at D.C. Cir.