So you want to be a NY Corporate Associate? Forum

[pancakes3]

tag

[Danger Zone]

Fuuuck this job

[luckenmeister]

Anyway, back to OP, why haven't you tried to make a lateral move? There is no way that someone could work 8 years at a V3 and not be able to work at a different law firm. Furthermore, and for the fourth time, why haven't you left NYC? Simply not getting any looks at non-law positions doesn't account for the fact that it seems you have done very little to change your situation.

He's already explained this multiple times. Read the thread.

You're a 0L. Stop assuming you know everything.

I've barely paid attention to the thread and I know the answers to this. I'm mean I ve skimmed this quickly and I got those answers.
He wants out of law.
Lateral offers haven't been an improvement in life style or he has to move to Iowa.
His wife wants to live in NYC because of her family.
His job takes all his time.

I'm sure there is more that I've missed, but those questions have been answered.

I don't understand why you are even launching these attacks on OP, what he does with his future doesn't discount the validity of his experience. Are you saying that his posts can't possibly be true because he would have left this job?

I'm not trying to attack OP, it just doesn't seem like they've done everything they can to fix the problem. OP has only stated that a lateral move wouldn't change anything, not that they've actually made a lateral move to another firm (one that could possibly provide him with a greater work/life balance). My understanding is that OP has been at the same firm for 8 years without leaving (if I'm wrong, pls correct me OP). Additionally, and maybe I'm wrong, but has OP sought out any of these blue collar jobs that some of you have been glorifying? I find it hard to believe that someone who has the interview skills to land a V3 firm, can't get a job as a police officer (I know many detectives have JDs), a "metro north ticket puncher", or that Janitor/ janitorial engineer position someone mentioned.

lawman84, I don't know everything, and will be the first admit that I have limited knowledge of biglaw. However, to make a blanket statement that biglaw doesn't work for anyone and that no one should attend law school, seems way over inclusive. I started in this thread by simply saying that I don't think law school is a bad idea for someone who is well aware of the "risks", someone who knows what working in a law firm is like and who enjoys it. I don't know what working for a V3 firm is like, but I doubt all NY Corporate Associates have the same exact experiences as OP.

[Mad Hatter]

lawman84, I don't know everything, and will be the first admit that I have limited knowledge of biglaw. However, to make a blanket statement that biglaw doesn't work for anyone and that no one should attend law school, seems way over inclusive. I started in this thread by simply saying that I don't think law school is a bad idea for someone who is well aware of the "risks", someone who knows what working in a law firm is like and who enjoys it. I don't know what working for a V3 firm is like, but I doubt all NY Corporate Associates have the same exact experiences as OP.

At this point I'm pretty sure everyone in this thread would love nothing more than sending you to law school.

[Tls2016]

^^^
Do you believe that with OPs credentials anyone would hire him to be a janitor or cop?

[Alive97]

Luckenmeier and xspider appear to be biglaw hopefuls in denial. "Other jobs are bad too so biglaw can't be worse" is not a good argument.

[luckenmeister]

As for OP, JohannDeMann, and any other biglaw associates on here who mentioned not having time with family, why are you not spending that time with them now? How do you have the time to consistently post on the forums and yet not have time for hobbies or sleep? It seems like this is your hobby?

A couple of responses to this point, which 0Ls make from time to time. First, I think y'all vastly overestimate how long it takes to type up a paragraph or two. When I post, it probably takes me an average of 45 to 60 seconds to type a response. Even on days when I post several times, I'm probably spending no more than 10-15 minutes total on TLS.

Second, browsing and posting is something that I do during downtimes. If i'm in the office on a Sunday and waiting for a partner to get back to me so that I can finish a task and get out of the office, I might browse TLS (or check sports scores or read blog posts or something else to pass the time). It's not like I'm spending time on TLS at the expense of hanging out with friends and family. I expect the same is true for many working lawyers who post here.

Congrats, want a cookie?

Sorry to be a douche, but what the hell are you talking about? You must be hallucinating about this job and imaginary office, because according to your posts, you're a 2L right now (you took the Dec. 2013 lsat). I don't know if you think it's funny, but the amount of time you spend here fabricating stories and trolling is pretty pathetic (and this coming from someone who only found out about this place ~3 months ago).

Wow, good sleuthing!! You totally figured out my charade. Once you combine this cunning and insight with your passion for law, there will be no stopping you!

For what it's worth, I graduated law school in 2012, clerked for a year, and have practiced since. Yes, I do troll on here occasionally, but only the especially dense posters can't distinguish my troll posts from the serious ones.

I only had to look at your first post lol (I'm sure you have many similar stories). I just don't get why someone would spend the time to create and continually respond to a detailed thread based on faux troubles you had while taking the LSAT in 2013? If you really did clerk in 2012 and are now a biglaw associate, then that's really the best evidence as to how shitty biglaw is, that "duping" randos on an online forum is how biglaw associates find amusement.

[A. Nony Mouse]

Trolling is an honored pastime on TLS.

(rpupkin is an attorney.)

[J90]

Thanks for your earlier response!

Curious about how you have perceived the exits you've come across and the places you've seen people exit to. You'd talked about working nearly the same hours for much less pay - was this in reference to working at a bank, in say, IBD Legal? Are there any positions at banks that you'd find more interesting than others? For a firm doing a lot of work with private equity firms, is it ever an interesting move to jump to a portfolio company of one of these (God forbid I ever work at a PE firm itself)?

I appreciate you being candid.

[lavarman84]

lawman84, I don't know everything, and will be the first admit that I have limited knowledge of biglaw. However, to make a blanket statement that biglaw doesn't work for anyone and that no one should attend law school, seems way over inclusive. I started in this thread by simply saying that I don't think law school is a bad idea for someone who is well aware of the "risks", someone who knows what working in a law firm is like and who enjoys it. I don't know what working for a V3 firm is like, but I doubt all NY Corporate Associates have the same exact experiences as OP.

Which is odd because this thread exists to warn you of the risks of biglaw. Yet, you're spending your time questioning the OP about his experiences when the majority of the people on this site who worked in biglaw have similar complaints. Yes, some people like it. Some people tolerate it. But the sentiment of the majority of the posters on this site is that they are in biglaw to pay off debt and will get out as soon as they can because the lifestyle is terrible and they don't enjoy the work.

I think it's a mistake to write off the experiences of so many practicing attorneys. It's why I took my SA at a biglaw firm with a really good reputation for work/life balance. And unless I really love my firm this summer, my plan is to not go into biglaw after I graduate.

I also worked in a law firm before going to law school. But there's a big difference between working for a small/medium sized law firm as a clerk or intern or paralegal and being a practicing lawyer in biglaw.

You may know that you want to be a lawyer but that doesn't necessarily mean you want to be a biglaw lawyer. Hearing all the stories about biglaw, I don't want that. For me, it's not the hours that's the problem. But if I'm going to work long hours, I want to be doing work that I am somewhat passionate about with people I enjoy being around. I want to work where my opinion and the work I do is valued. I don't want to be a cog in a machine that only exists to bill hours and make PPP go up.

[rpupkin]

For what it's worth, I graduated law school in 2012, clerked for a year, and have practiced since. Yes, I do troll on here occasionally, but only the especially dense posters can't distinguish my troll posts from the serious ones.

I only had to look at your first post lol (I'm sure you have many similar stories). I just don't get why someone would spend the time to create and continually respond to a detailed thread based on faux troubles you had while taking the LSAT in 2013?

Ironic. I mean, what's your excuse for repeatedly (and sometimes hostilely) making the same inane points over and over in an apparent attempt to rile up others? Do you honestly think that you're not trolling this thread?

[xspider]

Albeit a 0L. I still do not understand the whole big law hate. Doesn't every job that involves a form of business require sacrifice of personal relationships at times(or most of the time) if one wants the big paycheck? The debt is not really a issue with big law in my opinion because the law firm has no power and cares nothing about law school cost, so they likely do not feel the need to increase salaries with cost of attendance.

Back to other high paying professions, it seems like most people complain because of the toxic people, even if the people are toxic, does anyone really expect to be billed at 200+ a hour with fortune 500 companies writing massive checks to entail a "lax" environment or job? If I were spending thousands of dollars on legal fees as a financial institution, you are darn right I am going to be on someone's tail about documents being sent and setting outrageous expectations. You ask why? Because someone is probably on my tail or my clients that pay my exorbitant salary are on my tail demanding results.

I think every field that is driven from sales of services will provide a rough environment, but it really seems like people almost seem to expect because they worked hard academically their whole life, they deserve the most fulfilling, non-pressured, highest paying job with max stability. Which is crazy.

Did you read anything in this thread? You are completely minimizing and misinterpreting everything actual biglaw lawyers posted.

of course he didnt read the thread. why would a 0L read and soak up this very valuable knowledge when hes watched law and order and suits.

I actually don't watch TV very often. And I have read this helpful and priceless forum. It just seems nobody is allowed to say anything positive about big law. Although everyone seems to admit one's experience is mostly determined by their group as oppose to the actual practice.

In a F500 company, there are 10-30 people who are on call 24/7/365, and they actually do drop everything for work, missing kids' events, missing best friends' weddings, missing relatives' funerals and similar. They get paid as much or more than biglaw partner. Most of them absolutely love what they do. Lawyers are expected to be on the same level of responsiveness, but get paid a fraction (especially as an associate). The lawyers also hate what they do. They follow those 10-30 people around and do their paperwork after they make a decision and go to bed. Unlike the people in charge, they have no say over when work gets done. There's nothing remotely interesting about it. That's the difference. That's why 80% of the class washes out in a few years. That's why the ones that don't have huge rates of alcoholism, depression and suicide.

But it won't be you though. You're different than nearly everyone that came before you. They were all wimps.

So you believe that in a fortune 500 company, only 30 people at most are needed to be on call 24/7? Okay, I do not believe that but do not have any evidence to debate it. So I will let that go.

Lawyer being paid a fraction of a CEO's salary (I am assuming you are speaking of at least C-level Execs). What exactly do you expect them to be paid? Do you believe they should make as much as a CEO? I do not understand what the income of one's client has anything to do with what one would expect for their own income.

It is unfortunate that people hate the work for whatever reason, but it is a job. Over 80% of Americans say they go to a job that they have disdain for. And please do not say, "Well most people did not go 100k+ in loans" that has nothing to do with anything because that was each applicants own doing. I agree, the price of school is sinfully expensive, but there is only so much complaining one can do after they take on the offer.

And finally, let us be civil and do not put words in my mouth and falsely represent my opinion. I never said anyone is a wimp and that I would be able to withstand it. Yes, I am striving for big law, and I am sure I will be crushed by this next statement, I want to at least go in with the goal of earning partner status, whether it is probable or not. I believe the odds are stacked against me, but I will not walk with the idea "well, I am going to fail anyway, so let me find an out" (Not saying this is what everyone on here does)

[Danger Zone]

Albeit a 0L. I still do not understand the whole big law hate. Doesn't every job that involves a form of business require sacrifice of personal relationships at times(or most of the time) if one wants the big paycheck? The debt is not really a issue with big law in my opinion because the law firm has no power and cares nothing about law school cost, so they likely do not feel the need to increase salaries with cost of attendance.

Back to other high paying professions, it seems like most people complain because of the toxic people, even if the people are toxic, does anyone really expect to be billed at 200+ a hour with fortune 500 companies writing massive checks to entail a "lax" environment or job? If I were spending thousands of dollars on legal fees as a financial institution, you are darn right I am going to be on someone's tail about documents being sent and setting outrageous expectations. You ask why? Because someone is probably on my tail or my clients that pay my exorbitant salary are on my tail demanding results.

I think every field that is driven from sales of services will provide a rough environment, but it really seems like people almost seem to expect because they worked hard academically their whole life, they deserve the most fulfilling, non-pressured, highest paying job with max stability. Which is crazy.

Did you read anything in this thread? You are completely minimizing and misinterpreting everything actual biglaw lawyers posted.

of course he didnt read the thread. why would a 0L read and soak up this very valuable knowledge when hes watched law and order and suits.

I actually don't watch TV very often. And I have read this helpful and priceless forum. It just seems nobody is allowed to say anything positive about big law. Although everyone seems to admit one's experience is mostly determined by their group as oppose to the actual practice.

In a F500 company, there are 10-30 people who are on call 24/7/365, and they actually do drop everything for work, missing kids' events, missing best friends' weddings, missing relatives' funerals and similar. They get paid as much or more than biglaw partner. Most of them absolutely love what they do. Lawyers are expected to be on the same level of responsiveness, but get paid a fraction (especially as an associate). The lawyers also hate what they do. They follow those 10-30 people around and do their paperwork after they make a decision and go to bed. Unlike the people in charge, they have no say over when work gets done. There's nothing remotely interesting about it. That's the difference. That's why 80% of the class washes out in a few years. That's why the ones that don't have huge rates of alcoholism, depression and suicide.

But it won't be you though. You're different than nearly everyone that came before you. They were all wimps.

So you believe that in a fortune 500 company, only 30 people at most are needed to be on call 24/7? Okay, I do not believe that but do not have any evidence to debate it. So I will let that go.

Lawyer being paid a fraction of a CEO's salary (I am assuming you are speaking of at least C-level Execs). What exactly do you expect them to be paid? Do you believe they should make as much as a CEO? I do not understand what the income of one's client has anything to do with what one would expect for their own income.

It is unfortunate that people hate the work for whatever reason, but it is a job. Over 80% of Americans say they go to a job that they have disdain for. And please do not say, "Well most people did not go 100k+ in loans" that has nothing to do with anything because that was each applicants own doing. I agree, the price of school is sinfully expensive, but there is only so much complaining one can do after they take on the offer.

And finally, let us be civil and do not put words in my mouth and falsely represent my opinion. I never said anyone is a wimp and that I would be able to withstand it. Yes, I am striving for big law, and I am sure I will be crushed by this next statement, I want to at least go in with the goal of earning partner status, whether it is probable or not. I believe the odds are stacked against me, but I will not walk with the idea "well, I am going to fail anyway, so let me find an out" (Not saying this is what everyone on here does)

K

[xspider]

Luckenmeier and xspider appear to be biglaw hopefuls in denial. "Other jobs are bad too so biglaw can't be worse" is not a good argument.

What am I in denial about? show me where I made an egregious statement about big law please.

[lavarman84]

Am I the only one who noticed the deleted post? Looks like Luckenmeister posted on his alt "SamuelDanforth" by a mistake.

[0heL]

Albeit a 0L. I still do not understand the whole big law hate. Doesn't every job that involves a form of business require sacrifice of personal relationships at times(or most of the time) if one wants the big paycheck? The debt is not really a issue with big law in my opinion because the law firm has no power and cares nothing about law school cost, so they likely do not feel the need to increase salaries with cost of attendance.

Back to other high paying professions, it seems like most people complain because of the toxic people, even if the people are toxic, does anyone really expect to be billed at 200+ a hour with fortune 500 companies writing massive checks to entail a "lax" environment or job? If I were spending thousands of dollars on legal fees as a financial institution, you are darn right I am going to be on someone's tail about documents being sent and setting outrageous expectations. You ask why? Because someone is probably on my tail or my clients that pay my exorbitant salary are on my tail demanding results.

I think every field that is driven from sales of services will provide a rough environment, but it really seems like people almost seem to expect because they worked hard academically their whole life, they deserve the most fulfilling, non-pressured, highest paying job with max stability. Which is crazy.

Did you read anything in this thread? You are completely minimizing and misinterpreting everything actual biglaw lawyers posted.

of course he didnt read the thread. why would a 0L read and soak up this very valuable knowledge when hes watched law and order and suits.

I actually don't watch TV very often. And I have read this helpful and priceless forum. It just seems nobody is allowed to say anything positive about big law. Although everyone seems to admit one's experience is mostly determined by their group as oppose to the actual practice.

In a F500 company, there are 10-30 people who are on call 24/7/365, and they actually do drop everything for work, missing kids' events, missing best friends' weddings, missing relatives' funerals and similar. They get paid as much or more than biglaw partner. Most of them absolutely love what they do. Lawyers are expected to be on the same level of responsiveness, but get paid a fraction (especially as an associate). The lawyers also hate what they do. They follow those 10-30 people around and do their paperwork after they make a decision and go to bed. Unlike the people in charge, they have no say over when work gets done. There's nothing remotely interesting about it. That's the difference. That's why 80% of the class washes out in a few years. That's why the ones that don't have huge rates of alcoholism, depression and suicide.

But it won't be you though. You're different than nearly everyone that came before you. They were all wimps.

So you believe that in a fortune 500 company, only 30 people at most are needed to be on call 24/7? Okay, I do not believe that but do not have any evidence to debate it. So I will let that go.

Lawyer being paid a fraction of a CEO's salary (I am assuming you are speaking of at least C-level Execs). What exactly do you expect them to be paid? Do you believe they should make as much as a CEO? I do not understand what the income of one's client has anything to do with what one would expect for their own income.

It is unfortunate that people hate the work for whatever reason, but it is a job. Over 80% of Americans say they go to a job that they have disdain for. And please do not say, "Well most people did not go 100k+ in loans" that has nothing to do with anything because that was each applicants own doing. I agree, the price of school is sinfully expensive, but there is only so much complaining one can do after they take on the offer.

And finally, let us be civil and do not put words in my mouth and falsely represent my opinion. I never said anyone is a wimp and that I would be able to withstand it. Yes, I am striving for big law, and I am sure I will be crushed by this next statement, I want to at least go in with the goal of earning partner status, whether it is probable or not. I believe the odds are stacked against me, but I will not walk with the idea "well, I am going to fail anyway, so let me find an out" (Not saying this is what everyone on here does)

Man, you totally misunderstood BernieTrump's argument. Like, wow.

He's not bringing up the people in a F500 that work 24/7 because he thinks lawyers should be paid as much as them. He's saying that out of the different groups of jobs that require you to be on call 24/7 throughout your career, F500 execs are in a much better position than law partners because its a more interesting job where your not someone's bitch all the time (other than shareholders I guess). Nowhere is he complaining that partners should be paid as much as CEO's, that's a straw man that you made up

I think the 0L's are missing a big part of Bernie Trump's argument here. He's not necessarily saying don't be a gunner/striver/workaholic with no social life (how could he? He's a frickin senior corporate associate at a V3 from HLS!!! of course he's a striver too). He's saying that if you're going to be a career gunner and sacrifice your social life, time with family, etc., might as well go into I-banking or tech where you could make way more money and not have such shitty day-to-day responsibilities.

[xspider]

Albeit a 0L. I still do not understand the whole big law hate. Doesn't every job that involves a form of business require sacrifice of personal relationships at times(or most of the time) if one wants the big paycheck? The debt is not really a issue with big law in my opinion because the law firm has no power and cares nothing about law school cost, so they likely do not feel the need to increase salaries with cost of attendance.

Back to other high paying professions, it seems like most people complain because of the toxic people, even if the people are toxic, does anyone really expect to be billed at 200+ a hour with fortune 500 companies writing massive checks to entail a "lax" environment or job? If I were spending thousands of dollars on legal fees as a financial institution, you are darn right I am going to be on someone's tail about documents being sent and setting outrageous expectations. You ask why? Because someone is probably on my tail or my clients that pay my exorbitant salary are on my tail demanding results.

I think every field that is driven from sales of services will provide a rough environment, but it really seems like people almost seem to expect because they worked hard academically their whole life, they deserve the most fulfilling, non-pressured, highest paying job with max stability. Which is crazy.

Did you read anything in this thread? You are completely minimizing and misinterpreting everything actual biglaw lawyers posted.

of course he didnt read the thread. why would a 0L read and soak up this very valuable knowledge when hes watched law and order and suits.

I actually don't watch TV very often. And I have read this helpful and priceless forum. It just seems nobody is allowed to say anything positive about big law. Although everyone seems to admit one's experience is mostly determined by their group as oppose to the actual practice.

In a F500 company, there are 10-30 people who are on call 24/7/365, and they actually do drop everything for work, missing kids' events, missing best friends' weddings, missing relatives' funerals and similar. They get paid as much or more than biglaw partner. Most of them absolutely love what they do. Lawyers are expected to be on the same level of responsiveness, but get paid a fraction (especially as an associate). The lawyers also hate what they do. They follow those 10-30 people around and do their paperwork after they make a decision and go to bed. Unlike the people in charge, they have no say over when work gets done. There's nothing remotely interesting about it. That's the difference. That's why 80% of the class washes out in a few years. That's why the ones that don't have huge rates of alcoholism, depression and suicide.

But it won't be you though. You're different than nearly everyone that came before you. They were all wimps.

So you believe that in a fortune 500 company, only 30 people at most are needed to be on call 24/7? Okay, I do not believe that but do not have any evidence to debate it. So I will let that go.

Lawyer being paid a fraction of a CEO's salary (I am assuming you are speaking of at least C-level Execs). What exactly do you expect them to be paid? Do you believe they should make as much as a CEO? I do not understand what the income of one's client has anything to do with what one would expect for their own income.

It is unfortunate that people hate the work for whatever reason, but it is a job. Over 80% of Americans say they go to a job that they have disdain for. And please do not say, "Well most people did not go 100k+ in loans" that has nothing to do with anything because that was each applicants own doing. I agree, the price of school is sinfully expensive, but there is only so much complaining one can do after they take on the offer.

And finally, let us be civil and do not put words in my mouth and falsely represent my opinion. I never said anyone is a wimp and that I would be able to withstand it. Yes, I am striving for big law, and I am sure I will be crushed by this next statement, I want to at least go in with the goal of earning partner status, whether it is probable or not. I believe the odds are stacked against me, but I will not walk with the idea "well, I am going to fail anyway, so let me find an out" (Not saying this is what everyone on here does)

Man, you totally misunderstood BernieTrump's argument. Like, wow.

He's not bringing up the people in a F500 that work 24/7 because he thinks lawyers should be paid as much as them. He's saying that out of the different groups of jobs that require you to be on call 24/7 throughout your career, F500 execs are in a much better position than law partners because its a more interesting job where your not someone's bitch all the time (other than shareholders I guess). Nowhere is he complaining that partners should be paid as much as CEO's, that's a straw man that you made up

I think the 0L's are missing a big part of Bernie Trump's argument here. He's not necessarily saying don't be a gunner/striver/workaholic with no social life (how could he? He's a frickin senior corporate associate at a V3 from HLS!!! of course he's a striver too). He's saying that if you're going to be a career gunner and sacrifice your social life, time with family, etc., might as well go into I-banking or tech where you could make way more money and not have such shitty day-to-day responsibilities.

Cool.

[0heL]

lol, you guys just don't get it. Bernie Trump has said a million times that he's trying to switch over to the business (re: non-legal) side. but everytime you guys come back with the whole "every career requires sacrifices!!!!" line

[Alive97]

Luckenmeier and xspider appear to be biglaw hopefuls in denial. "Other jobs are bad too so biglaw can't be worse" is not a good argument.

What am I in denial about? show me where I made an egregious statement about big law please.

What's your basis for believing biglaw is not worse than most other jobs in a similar pay range? I think all I've seen you say is "other jobs are bad too". Or do you just accept that it's worse?

[T-forteenager]

Albeit a 0L. I still do not understand the whole big law hate. Doesn't every job that involves a form of business require sacrifice of personal relationships at times(or most of the time) if one wants the big paycheck? The debt is not really a issue with big law in my opinion because the law firm has no power and cares nothing about law school cost, so they likely do not feel the need to increase salaries with cost of attendance.

Back to other high paying professions, it seems like most people complain because of the toxic people, even if the people are toxic, does anyone really expect to be billed at 200+ a hour with fortune 500 companies writing massive checks to entail a "lax" environment or job? If I were spending thousands of dollars on legal fees as a financial institution, you are darn right I am going to be on someone's tail about documents being sent and setting outrageous expectations. You ask why? Because someone is probably on my tail or my clients that pay my exorbitant salary are on my tail demanding results.

I think every field that is driven from sales of services will provide a rough environment, but it really seems like people almost seem to expect because they worked hard academically their whole life, they deserve the most fulfilling, non-pressured, highest paying job with max stability. Which is crazy.

Did you read anything in this thread? You are completely minimizing and misinterpreting everything actual biglaw lawyers posted.

of course he didnt read the thread. why would a 0L read and soak up this very valuable knowledge when hes watched law and order and suits.

I actually don't watch TV very often. And I have read this helpful and priceless forum. It just seems nobody is allowed to say anything positive about big law. Although everyone seems to admit one's experience is mostly determined by their group as oppose to the actual practice.

In a F500 company, there are 10-30 people who are on call 24/7/365, and they actually do drop everything for work, missing kids' events, missing best friends' weddings, missing relatives' funerals and similar. They get paid as much or more than biglaw partner. Most of them absolutely love what they do. Lawyers are expected to be on the same level of responsiveness, but get paid a fraction (especially as an associate). The lawyers also hate what they do. They follow those 10-30 people around and do their paperwork after they make a decision and go to bed. Unlike the people in charge, they have no say over when work gets done. There's nothing remotely interesting about it. That's the difference. That's why 80% of the class washes out in a few years. That's why the ones that don't have huge rates of alcoholism, depression and suicide.

But it won't be you though. You're different than nearly everyone that came before you. They were all wimps.

So you believe that in a fortune 500 company, only 30 people at most are needed to be on call 24/7? Okay, I do not believe that but do not have any evidence to debate it. So I will let that go.

Lawyer being paid a fraction of a CEO's salary (I am assuming you are speaking of at least C-level Execs). What exactly do you expect them to be paid? Do you believe they should make as much as a CEO? I do not understand what the income of one's client has anything to do with what one would expect for their own income.

It is unfortunate that people hate the work for whatever reason, but it is a job. Over 80% of Americans say they go to a job that they have disdain for. And please do not say, "Well most people did not go 100k+ in loans" that has nothing to do with anything because that was each applicants own doing. I agree, the price of school is sinfully expensive, but there is only so much complaining one can do after they take on the offer.

And finally, let us be civil and do not put words in my mouth and falsely represent my opinion. I never said anyone is a wimp and that I would be able to withstand it. Yes, I am striving for big law, and I am sure I will be crushed by this next statement, I want to at least go in with the goal of earning partner status, whether it is probable or not. I believe the odds are stacked against me, but I will not walk with the idea "well, I am going to fail anyway, so let me find an out" (Not saying this is what everyone on here does)

if you're so sure BernieTrump thinks lawyers should be as much as F500 CEO's, why don't you ask him? because i don't remember him saying that

also, i worked at the headquarters of F500 before law school. the vast, vast majority of people were not on call. only really high level execs and some of the people below them would be on call 24/7. working in-house is oftentimes a 9-5 paradise

[xspider]

Luckenmeier and xspider appear to be biglaw hopefuls in denial. "Other jobs are bad too so biglaw can't be worse" is not a good argument.

What am I in denial about? show me where I made an egregious statement about big law please.

What's your basis for believing biglaw is not worse than most other jobs in a similar pay range? I think all I've seen you say is "other jobs are bad too". Or do you just accept that it's worse?

Well considering people have told me I don't know how bad it is, since I haven't experienced big law. By that logic, they cannot tell me how good other positions are since they more than likely haven't experienced it either. But I'm done with this forum. Take care

[xspider]

Albeit a 0L. I still do not understand the whole big law hate. Doesn't every job that involves a form of business require sacrifice of personal relationships at times(or most of the time) if one wants the big paycheck? The debt is not really a issue with big law in my opinion because the law firm has no power and cares nothing about law school cost, so they likely do not feel the need to increase salaries with cost of attendance.

Back to other high paying professions, it seems like most people complain because of the toxic people, even if the people are toxic, does anyone really expect to be billed at 200+ a hour with fortune 500 companies writing massive checks to entail a "lax" environment or job? If I were spending thousands of dollars on legal fees as a financial institution, you are darn right I am going to be on someone's tail about documents being sent and setting outrageous expectations. You ask why? Because someone is probably on my tail or my clients that pay my exorbitant salary are on my tail demanding results.

I think every field that is driven from sales of services will provide a rough environment, but it really seems like people almost seem to expect because they worked hard academically their whole life, they deserve the most fulfilling, non-pressured, highest paying job with max stability. Which is crazy.

Did you read anything in this thread? You are completely minimizing and misinterpreting everything actual biglaw lawyers posted.

of course he didnt read the thread. why would a 0L read and soak up this very valuable knowledge when hes watched law and order and suits.

I actually don't watch TV very often. And I have read this helpful and priceless forum. It just seems nobody is allowed to say anything positive about big law. Although everyone seems to admit one's experience is mostly determined by their group as oppose to the actual practice.

In a F500 company, there are 10-30 people who are on call 24/7/365, and they actually do drop everything for work, missing kids' events, missing best friends' weddings, missing relatives' funerals and similar. They get paid as much or more than biglaw partner. Most of them absolutely love what they do. Lawyers are expected to be on the same level of responsiveness, but get paid a fraction (especially as an associate). The lawyers also hate what they do. They follow those 10-30 people around and do their paperwork after they make a decision and go to bed. Unlike the people in charge, they have no say over when work gets done. There's nothing remotely interesting about it. That's the difference. That's why 80% of the class washes out in a few years. That's why the ones that don't have huge rates of alcoholism, depression and suicide.

But it won't be you though. You're different than nearly everyone that came before you. They were all wimps.

So you believe that in a fortune 500 company, only 30 people at most are needed to be on call 24/7? Okay, I do not believe that but do not have any evidence to debate it. So I will let that go.

Lawyer being paid a fraction of a CEO's salary (I am assuming you are speaking of at least C-level Execs). What exactly do you expect them to be paid? Do you believe they should make as much as a CEO? I do not understand what the income of one's client has anything to do with what one would expect for their own income.

It is unfortunate that people hate the work for whatever reason, but it is a job. Over 80% of Americans say they go to a job that they have disdain for. And please do not say, "Well most people did not go 100k+ in loans" that has nothing to do with anything because that was each applicants own doing. I agree, the price of school is sinfully expensive, but there is only so much complaining one can do after they take on the offer.

And finally, let us be civil and do not put words in my mouth and falsely represent my opinion. I never said anyone is a wimp and that I would be able to withstand it. Yes, I am striving for big law, and I am sure I will be crushed by this next statement, I want to at least go in with the goal of earning partner status, whether it is probable or not. I believe the odds are stacked against me, but I will not walk with the idea "well, I am going to fail anyway, so let me find an out" (Not saying this is what everyone on here does)

if you're so sure BernieTrump thinks lawyers should be as much as F500 CEO's, why don't you ask him? because i don't remember him saying that

also, i worked at the headquarters of F500 before law school. the vast, vast majority of people were not on call. only really high level execs and some of the people below them would be on call 24/7. working in-house is oftentimes a 9-5 paradise

I'm done with this forum. I feel like I am just over-flooding it with my opinion but no facts. Which is actually debatable if anyone in here has facts since everyone is anonymous, but I digress. Take care

[T-forteenager]

Luckenmeier and xspider appear to be biglaw hopefuls in denial. "Other jobs are bad too so biglaw can't be worse" is not a good argument.

What am I in denial about? show me where I made an egregious statement about big law please.

What's your basis for believing biglaw is not worse than most other jobs in a similar pay range? I think all I've seen you say is "other jobs are bad too". Or do you just accept that it's worse?

Well considering people have told me I don't know how bad it is, since I haven't experienced big law. By that logic, they cannot tell me how good other positions are since they more than likely haven't experienced it either. But I'm done with this forum. Take care

BernieTrump worked in both i-banking and BigLaw, and he said BigLaw is worse. so

[Alive97]

Luckenmeier and xspider appear to be biglaw hopefuls in denial. "Other jobs are bad too so biglaw can't be worse" is not a good argument.

What am I in denial about? show me where I made an egregious statement about big law please.

What's your basis for believing biglaw is not worse than most other jobs in a similar pay range? I think all I've seen you say is "other jobs are bad too". Or do you just accept that it's worse?

Well considering people have told me I don't know how bad it is, since I haven't experienced big law. By that logic, they cannot tell me how good other positions are since they more than likely haven't experienced it either. But I'm done with this forum. Take care

There are statistics on the profession's mental health, and I think we can compare different professions without necessarily having worked in them. People in biglaw say they hate it at an alarming rate, do the people in other professions do the same? There are factors that go into this and that are specific to biglaw such as lack of control over time, lack of substantive work, etc. There are differences between the professions. Your argument "a lot of jobs are bad so biglaw can't be worse" ignores the differences.

[jrass]

There's some level of risk involved in posting in a thread like this. Assuming internet users are rational actors, they're less likely to post if they like their job. It's possible the sample here isn't 100% indicative of the norm. People are also likelier to post when they have an emotional reaction to something, and it's not super likely that many people get so hopped up about a due diligence memo that they cry tears of joy to the masses.