UChi Students & Alumni Taking Questions Forum

[WheninLaw]

This is probably real late in the year to be asking this, but I still do not understand the grading scale at all. I get that a 177 is median, but around what percentile is top 30%? 20%? 10%? Basically, I do not understand any grade that is not a 177 lol

We generally don't know either.

At graduation, historically: 182+ is top .5% of the class, 180.5 is top 7.3% (I think), and 179 is like top 30% or something. I'm too lazy to check my transcripts. The curve gets easier as an upperclassmen because the median for seminars can be 179.

For 1Ls, ~180 is about the top 10% cutoff, whereas ~180.5 is top 5%.

[Mal Reynolds]

177.3/4/5 is likely median after 1L year. I would also venture to say that below 179 is top 30% but I'm not sure exactly what it would be. 179 at graduation has to be a little inflated since people can take higher median classes after 1L.

[elterrible78]

For 1Ls, ~180 is about the top 10% cutoff, whereas ~180.5 is top 5%.

I think there's probably quite a bit of variation on this. I know that last year, top 5% was at least a tad higher than 180.8.

[haplotype]

Hello! I'm a February admit that will 90% be attending.

1) What are all your thoughts on double depositing? Is this an expected part of the process? I'm conflicted. To me, it seems unethical and a poor way to start a relationship with a degree-granting institution. On the other hand, it would be really nice if UChi played ball and handed over some extra aid...

Chicago's Commitment Response Form page expressly discourages it:

Whether you will be attending the Law School or not, please submit the Commitment Response Form as soon as you have finalized your law school plans. Your cooperation will assist the University of Chicago Law School, as well as other law schools, in determining how many offers of admission to extend and will ensure that candidates with pending applications receive decisions as early as possible. The Law School asks that applicants only have one deposit or letter of intent to enroll at a law school unless there are extenuating circumstances that prevent the applicant from making a decision among outstanding offers of admission. When you reserve a seat in the Class of 2018, we request that you withdraw any deposits or commitments to attend any other law school. You are not required to remove your name from waitlists at other law schools. Please do not check this option unless you are fully committed to attending the University of Chicago Law School at this time.

[JDeezy]

Since it is almost certainly true that more than 50% get a 177 or better in any given class (median can be 177 but 60%+ could still get a 177), isn't it true that a 177.0 for the 1L year would be below median?

Median would be 177.something (or theoretically even higher.) Tell me what I'm missing.

[Mal Reynolds]

Since it is almost certainly true that more than 50% get a 177 or better in any given class (median can be 177 but 60%+ could still get a 177), isn't it true that a 177.0 for the 1L year would be below median?

Median would be 177.something (or theoretically even higher.) Tell me what I'm missing.

This is correct.

[skers]

For 1Ls, ~180 is about the top 10% cutoff, whereas ~180.5 is top 5%.

I think there's probably quite a bit of variation on this. I know that last year, top 5% was at least a tad higher than 180.8.

I can't think of anything more important than nailing down the exact decimal points for top 5%.

The good thing is there is a bit of hide the ball going on w/ grades. My impression is something like 70% of the class is clustered roughly between 176.5 and 178.5 or so. To the extent you love commas, italicizing, and hating yourself, LR cut-off my year was a bit higher than 179.5, but no idea what it was last year. Yeah, firms have some idea of where people are at and some will go through the effort of throwing people's grades into excel spreadsheets, but generally speaking they're going to see the name of your transcript and assume you're smart. Seeing 180s or just above 177s on the transcript are just going to be general proxies for doing well.

The best advice I heard in LS was just focus on being average. Being in that general median range can get you to all but a handful of firms. Keep that in mind, especially going into the hell that is spring q.

[PariSiamo]

I love how wacky the grading scale is because presumably it will confuse the hell out of a lot of employers and bring greater focus to other aspects of your resume, making the grades rat race a bit more forgiving. From my understanding, anyway.

[2014]

Absolutely true, unfortunately when you are in that rat race it's difficult for some to not overanalyze the difference between a 178 and 177 and to feel like a success or failure based on what amounts to probably random error in either direction.

[Robb]

It can also create some interesting interview situations. When I was interviewing in a tertiary market that doesn't get many UChicago applicants, one of my interviewers said something about room numbers while looking at my transcript - she thought our grades were room numbers, and the number of credit hours (1, 2, or 3) were grades. A similar thing happened in one other interview, but in a primary market.

[Mal Reynolds]

I'm pretty sure the big NYC/Chicago/DC firms know the grading scale well, and you still have to be cognizant of what markets you bid based on your gpa. But yeah, 176.5-178.5 is a LOT of the class and there are only a few firms where you'll be automatically shut out based on your transcript alone.

[03282016]

[Mal Reynolds]

Couple days before the first day of school.

[Crowing]

I hope we get someone like Schill again - a professional dean/rainmaker.

Yeah. As weird/awkward as Schill is, he sure knows how to get folks to show him the money.

Heh this is pretty much exactly what I think about him. He is like the most socially effective awkward person I have ever met.

[WheninLaw]

For 1Ls, ~180 is about the top 10% cutoff, whereas ~180.5 is top 5%.

I think there's probably quite a bit of variation on this. I know that last year, top 5% was at least a tad higher than 180.8.

Yeah, your class is an anomaly. The top rises above the rest of you scrubs.

[orbotop]

relatedly whats typical coif cutoff at graduation ??

[2014]

Do we even do coif? There are just highest honors, K&E, high honors, and honors afaik but I could be wrong.

[Emma.]

Do we even do coif? There are just highest honors, K&E, high honors, and honors afaik but I could be wrong.

Yeah, there's Coif too. In recent years it seems like it has been pretty close to coterminous with High Honors. So maybe 180.3?

[sheishkabob]

For CA Big Law, do you guys think that Chicago would offer any advantages over Berkeley (if they are at near equal cost)?

[2014]

For CA Big Law, do you guys think that Chicago would offer any advantages over Berkeley (if they are at near equal cost)?

We probably hold a per capita placement advantage at many/most firms in that you aren't competing with 60% of your peers you are competing with 10% and firms probably don't prefer to hire 6x UCB grads than UChi ones. There will be a few firms that do OCI at Boalt that don't come here though so that has to be weighed. If you are hell bent on California and cost is equal (or UCB is cheaper) then there's probably no reason to deal with the shitty weather and potential extra cost here.

If you are at all likely to consider a non-Cali market either by choice or by risk-aversion, it will start to push dramatically toward UChi though as our placement advantage in Chi, NY, and DC is substantial (unless someone wants to convince me otherwise).

[leslieknope]

Anyone familiar with Chicago's LRAP around? Do you know if you get any benefits if you exceed the 80k income cap prior to the 5 year negative amortization payout? I'm thinking of a situation like the GS DC payscale, where you start out at like 60k but exceed that within less than 3 years.

[sheishkabob]

For CA Big Law, do you guys think that Chicago would offer any advantages over Berkeley (if they are at near equal cost)?

We probably hold a per capita placement advantage at many/most firms in that you aren't competing with 60% of your peers you are competing with 10% and firms probably don't prefer to hire 6x UCB grads than UChi ones. There will be a few firms that do OCI at Boalt that don't come here though so that has to be weighed. If you are hell bent on California and cost is equal (or UCB is cheaper) then there's probably no reason to deal with the shitty weather and potential extra cost here.

If you are at all likely to consider a non-Cali market either by choice or by risk-aversion, it will start to push dramatically toward UChi though as our placement advantage in Chi, NY, and DC is substantial (unless someone wants to convince me otherwise).

So with Chicago, the security lies in being able to get to other markets more easily than Berk if I strike out at CA, but there's not really any added security for CA? Do you think there's any more security in terms of the grades I would have to get at Chicago or Berkeley to get CA big law? Or would they be the same

[WheninLaw]

For CA Big Law, do you guys think that Chicago would offer any advantages over Berkeley (if they are at near equal cost)?

We probably hold a per capita placement advantage at many/most firms in that you aren't competing with 60% of your peers you are competing with 10% and firms probably don't prefer to hire 6x UCB grads than UChi ones. There will be a few firms that do OCI at Boalt that don't come here though so that has to be weighed. If you are hell bent on California and cost is equal (or UCB is cheaper) then there's probably no reason to deal with the shitty weather and potential extra cost here.

If you are at all likely to consider a non-Cali market either by choice or by risk-aversion, it will start to push dramatically toward UChi though as our placement advantage in Chi, NY, and DC is substantial (unless someone wants to convince me otherwise).

So with Chicago, the security lies in being able to get to other markets more easily than Berk if I strike out at CA, but there's not really any added security for CA? Do you think there's any more security in terms of the grades I would have to get at Chicago or Berkeley to get CA big law? Or would they be the same

I think Berkeley probably gives you an advantage for NorCal Biglaw, but the advantage is moot (possibly a little UoC) in SoCal. Chicago also has a slight advantage at preftige firms (we do better at Irell, Munger, etc.), but that shouldn't be much of a concern. Ultimately, I'd call them peer schools as far as CA goes, and would err Berkeley assuming near equal costs (DAT WEATHER).

I bid 100% CA, so feel free to PM with specific questions.

[2014]

Wheninlaw would know better than I, while I *think* we probably have an advantage at median/just below the sample size is not really strong enough to say for sure. It would certainly be justifiable to come here and I'd be surprised if it put you at any disadvantage, but again in your shoes if you are basically all in on Cali i'd go somewhere with no winters.

[WheninLaw]

Wheninlaw would know better than I, while I *think* we probably have an advantage at median/just below the sample size is not really strong enough to say for sure. It would certainly be justifiable to come here and I'd be surprised if it put you at any disadvantage, but again in your shoes if you are basically all in on Cali i'd go somewhere with no winters.

+1