Cornell 1L taking questions Forum

[redsox550]

5% - 3.84 10% - 3.80

Now compare this to last year:

For the graduating Class of 2012, the gpa cut off for magna cum laude was 3.70 and for cum laude was 3.53.[/quote

Plus, last semester,

Class of 2014 [three semesters]:
5% - 3.89 10% - 3.81

So the top 10% cut-off has gone from a 3.7 to a 3.81 between the graduating classes of 2012 and 2013. The top 5% has gone from 3.84 in my year to 3.89 in your year. Both of those figures are likely to be higher for your year once you graduate. If that's not grade inflation, I don't know what is.[/quote]

Isn't this due to the change in the grading policy that happened then.

[Lincoln]

5% - 3.84 10% - 3.80

Now compare this to last year:

For the graduating Class of 2012, the gpa cut off for magna cum laude was 3.70 and for cum laude was 3.53.[/quote

Plus, last semester,

Class of 2014 [three semesters]:
5% - 3.89 10% - 3.81

So the top 10% cut-off has gone from a 3.7 to a 3.81 between the graduating classes of 2012 and 2013. The top 5% has gone from 3.84 in my year to 3.89 in your year. Both of those figures are likely to be higher for your year once you graduate. If that's not grade inflation, I don't know what is.

Isn't this due to the change in the grading policy that happened then.

To a large extent, yes. Moreover, the grading policy is more generous than what the official policy states. Courses are basically graded to a 3.5. I can't think of a class last semester that was graded to the lower end of the range. But it doesn't quite explain why it keeps increasing (i.e. from class of 2013 to 2014), except I think there's some pressure from the administration to inflate grades because there's a perception, probably accurate, that leads to (short term) improvements in hiring statistics.

Edited for tech-edit fail.

[redsox550]

5% - 3.84 10% - 3.80

Now compare this to last year:

For the graduating Class of 2012, the gpa cut off for magna cum laude was 3.70 and for cum laude was 3.53.[/quote

Plus, last semester,

Class of 2014 [three semesters]:
5% - 3.89 10% - 3.81

So the top 10% cut-off has gone from a 3.7 to a 3.81 between the graduating classes of 2012 and 2013. The top 5% has gone from 3.84 in my year to 3.89 in your year. Both of those figures are likely to be higher for your year once you graduate. If that's not grade inflation, I don't know what is.

Isn't this due to the change in the grading policy that happened then.

To a large extent, yes. Moreover, the grading policy is more generous than what the official policy states. Courses are basically graded to a 3.5. I can't think of a class last semester that was graded to the lower end of the range. But it doesn't quite explain why it keeps increasing (i.e. from class of 2013 to 2014), except I think there's some pressure from the administration to inflate grades because there's a perception, probably accurate, that leads to (short term) improvements in hiring statistics.

Edited for tech-edit fail.

Technically it could be long term. For instance, if employment goes up, then school rank goes up, and if employers care about school rank then employment will go up regardless of grade inflation or not

[Lincoln]

Technically it could be long term. For instance, if employment goes up, then school rank goes up, and if employers care about school rank then employment will go up regardless of grade inflation or not

Sure. Also, placing more Cornell graduates into firms for one or two consecutive years may lead to those firms eventually being more willing to recruit from Cornell (whether because those graduates end up on the hiring committee, are willing to recommend students, or whatever). But I think that's all on the margins and mostly conjecture; it's more likely that firms will, after a year or two, adjust their GPA floors upward in order to maintain similar diversity in the summer classes w/r/t school origin.

[redsox550]

Technically it could be long term. For instance, if employment goes up, then school rank goes up, and if employers care about school rank then employment will go up regardless of grade inflation or not

Sure. Also, placing more Cornell graduates into firms for one or two consecutive years may lead to those firms eventually being more willing to recruit from Cornell (whether because those graduates end up on the hiring committee, are willing to recommend students, or whatever). But I think that's all on the margins and mostly conjecture; it's more likely that firms will, after a year or two, adjust their GPA floors upward in order to maintain similar diversity in the summer classes w/r/t school origin.

I agree, they may be doing this also bc they r hoping the market improves by the time firms catch on to the inflation. Given that , I should prob stop worrying so much about my grades and just check them already

[redsox550]

well that was prettu crappy, whats top 10% whats dean list for 1l?

[Arbiter213]

well that was prettu crappy, whats top 10% whats dean list for 1l?

They haven't released the grading policy yet, so no way to know. Dean's list is usually around a 3.6

[Lincoln]

well that was prettu crappy, whats top 10% whats dean list for 1l?

They haven't released the grading policy yet, so no way to know. Dean's list is usually around a 3.6

Though for the 3Ls it was upwards of a 3.7 this past semester.

[Arbiter213]

well that was prettu crappy, whats top 10% whats dean list for 1l?

They haven't released the grading policy yet, so no way to know. Dean's list is usually around a 3.6

Though for the 3Ls it was upwards of a 3.7 this past semester.

You sure? That seems impossible.

[Lincoln]

well that was prettu crappy, whats top 10% whats dean list for 1l?

They haven't released the grading policy yet, so no way to know. Dean's list is usually around a 3.6

Though for the 3Ls it was upwards of a 3.7 this past semester.

You sure? That seems impossible.

I know someone in the c/o 2013 with above an A- average for the last semester who did not get Dean's List. So I know it's above a 3.67.

[Arbiter213]

I know someone in the c/o 2013 with above an A- average for the last semester who did not get Dean's List. So I know it's above a 3.67.

Wow. My year really helps the curve I guess.

[Lincoln]

By the way, since all (?) grades are out, if you 1Ls out there have questions for us 2Ls and 3Ls about recruiting etc., this thread is as good as any. Saves me from the purgatory that is barbri, anyway. If you are shy about your grades, PM me (or Arbiter or whoever else lurks this thread).

[Arbiter213]

By the way, since all (?) grades are out, if you 1Ls out there have questions for us 2Ls and 3Ls about recruiting etc., this thread is as good as any. Saves me from the purgatory that is barbri, anyway. If you are shy about your grades, PM me (or Arbiter or whoever else lurks this thread).

They get access to symplicity tomorrow, so I assume we'll start seeing bidlists etc. then.

[Lincoln]

By the way, since all (?) grades are out, if you 1Ls out there have questions for us 2Ls and 3Ls about recruiting etc., this thread is as good as any. Saves me from the purgatory that is barbri, anyway. If you are shy about your grades, PM me (or Arbiter or whoever else lurks this thread).

They get access to symplicity tomorrow, so I assume we'll start seeing bidlists etc. then.

Thanks for the info. By the way, 1Ls, just in case you don't understand how this works yet, posting bidlists online may not be advisable because your success in getting screeners depends in part on bidding differently from everyone else.

[redsox550]

By the way, since all (?) grades are out, if you 1Ls out there have questions for us 2Ls and 3Ls about recruiting etc., this thread is as good as any. Saves me from the purgatory that is barbri, anyway. If you are shy about your grades, PM me (or Arbiter or whoever else lurks this thread).

any specific advise to how to begin to prep for bidding. I am looking for something more than "research all the firms." maybe a specific place to start or resources to use?

[Arbiter213]

By the way, since all (?) grades are out, if you 1Ls out there have questions for us 2Ls and 3Ls about recruiting etc., this thread is as good as any. Saves me from the purgatory that is barbri, anyway. If you are shy about your grades, PM me (or Arbiter or whoever else lurks this thread).

any specific advise to how to begin to prep for bidding. I am looking for something more than "research all the firms." maybe a specific place to start or resources to use?

To start with, once you get symplicity, make a spreadsheet with all the firms and their High, low, and Average callback GPA.

Talk to 3Ls (you're a 2L now, deal with it) who you know well enough to discuss their exact bidding strategy. Bid as aggressively as you can within sanity. The median-y firms are the hardest to get, so those need to be higher than most "reach" firms.

Ultimately its a lottery though, and it's absolutely possible to get fucked by it. I and another friend from my journal both got only 11 from the lottery. We both hustled though and pumped that number up (in her case it helped she had one of the highest GPAs in our year).

[Lincoln]

Arbiter's tactic is TCR. (Btw, If you know graduates, you can ask us too.)

For the next step, NALP and http://www.chambersassociate.com/Search/FirmList were my go-to places to start researching more about where firms have offices, how big their summer classes are, permanent offer rates, practice area strengths, etc. Some of those things are good to know for making your bid list; others become more important once you get your screeners.

Summer class size and number of slots at AJF (or whatever other job fairs you are doing) are, in my opinion, key, but for slightly different reasons. Number of slots is important for bidding: I didn't get a slot with one of my #1 bids because they only has 20 screeners and more than 20 people bid them #1, so it ended up being a totally wasted bid. Class size is important for getting offers. Firms with smaller class sizes can sometimes be a bit pickier. By picky I don't mean more grade-selective, but that within their target grade spectrum, they might give fewer callbacks than bigger firms. Also, such firms will sometimes end up not giving offers to anyone at Cornell simply because they only have 10 SAs and interview at more than 10 schools. (One firm I know of gave CBs to three people in my class and gave offers to none.)

I would also, especially if your grades aren't where you'd like them to be, research firms that are not coming to AJF and make a list of them so you can mail applications to them separately. This can be especially valuable if you have ties to a secondary market that typically doesn't recruit heavily from Cornell.

[Lincoln]

By the way, I didn't really know anything about any firms, but I had 2L friends from Cornell and from other schools who ended up being extremely helpful. I highly recommend reaching out to whomever you know and trust to get more of an inside scoop on firms.

[Arbiter213]

By the way, I didn't really know anything about any firms, but I had 2L friends from Cornell and from other schools who ended up being extremely helpful. I highly recommend reaching out to whomever you know and trust to get more of an inside scoop on firms.

Highly credited.

[msblaw89]

If you are bidding on a firm that has several offices coming ( NY, Miami, etc). Do you bid just for the firm in general? Or would you bid for the specific location?

[Lincoln]

If you are bidding on a firm that has several offices coming ( NY, Miami, etc). Do you bid just for the firm in general? Or would you bid for the specific location?

It depends. Some firms will have offices represented individually. In that case you typically place bids for each separately. Others are interviewing for several offices. For those firms, you typically check boxes or rank the offices in which you are interested. IIRC, this was pretty obvious from Symplicity and other info we got.

[northerrn]

If you interview with a firm's office in a secondary market outside the AJF process (like through mass mail or a diversity fair), will it in any way preclude you from bidding on/interviewing with a different office of the same firm at AJF?

[LSHopeful91]

For the bidding counseling, do we need to be in Ithaca or can it be done remotely?

[Arbiter213]

If you interview with a firm's office in a secondary market outside the AJF process (like through mass mail or a diversity fair), will it in any way preclude you from bidding on/interviewing with a different office of the same firm at AJF?

It will depend on the firm.

For the bidding counseling, do we need to be in Ithaca or can it be done remotely?

You can, of course, do it remotely via telephone.

[Lincoln]

For the bidding counseling, do we need to be in Ithaca or can it be done remotely?

You can, of course, do it remotely via telephone.

Not that you shouldn't do this (you definitely should), but the advice I got was "looks good."