So you want to be a NY Corporate Associate? Forum

[Tls2016]

Albeit a 0L. I still do not understand the whole big law hate. Doesn't every job that involves a form of business require sacrifice of personal relationships at times(or most of the time) if one wants the big paycheck? The debt is not really a issue with big law in my opinion because the law firm has no power and cares nothing about law school cost, so they likely do not feel the need to increase salaries with cost of attendance.

Back to other high paying professions, it seems like most people complain because of the toxic people, even if the people are toxic, does anyone really expect to be billed at 200+ a hour with fortune 500 companies writing massive checks to entail a "lax" environment or job? If I were spending thousands of dollars on legal fees as a financial institution, you are darn right I am going to be on someone's tail about documents being sent and setting outrageous expectations. You ask why? Because someone is probably on my tail or my clients that pay my exorbitant salary are on my tail demanding results.

I think every field that is driven from sales of services will provide a rough environment, but it really seems like people almost seem to expect because they worked hard academically their whole life, they deserve the most fulfilling, non-pressured, highest paying job with max stability. Which is crazy.

Did you read anything in this thread? You are completely minimizing and misinterpreting everything actual biglaw lawyers posted.

I did, and overall, I don't think big law people have a job that is more or less demanding than most high stake positions. Just an opinion.

What "high stakes positions" have you held that you are comparing biglaw corporate to?

[Johann]

I actually don't watch TV very often. And I have read this helpful and priceless forum. It just seems nobody is allowed to say anything positive about big law. Although everyone seems to admit one's experience is mostly determined by their group as oppose to the actual practice.

biglaw associates that do the work are allowed to say positive things. there are some associates who get lucky and have good groups. but its just a crapshoot of luck. and i think its also pretty telling that the few people who do like their work, usually leave biglaw still.

[xspider]

Albeit a 0L. I still do not understand the whole big law hate. Doesn't every job that involves a form of business require sacrifice of personal relationships at times(or most of the time) if one wants the big paycheck? The debt is not really a issue with big law in my opinion because the law firm has no power and cares nothing about law school cost, so they likely do not feel the need to increase salaries with cost of attendance.

Back to other high paying professions, it seems like most people complain because of the toxic people, even if the people are toxic, does anyone really expect to be billed at 200+ a hour with fortune 500 companies writing massive checks to entail a "lax" environment or job? If I were spending thousands of dollars on legal fees as a financial institution, you are darn right I am going to be on someone's tail about documents being sent and setting outrageous expectations. You ask why? Because someone is probably on my tail or my clients that pay my exorbitant salary are on my tail demanding results.

I think every field that is driven from sales of services will provide a rough environment, but it really seems like people almost seem to expect because they worked hard academically their whole life, they deserve the most fulfilling, non-pressured, highest paying job with max stability. Which is crazy.

Did you read anything in this thread? You are completely minimizing and misinterpreting everything actual biglaw lawyers posted.

I did, and overall, I don't think big law people have a job that is more or less demanding than most high stake positions. Just an opinion.

What "high stakes positions" have you held that you are comparing biglaw corporate to?

None. I'm not sure what that has to do with me having an opinion. I never said big law is easy, I just don't think the negatives are exclusive to only big law.

[xspider]

I actually don't watch TV very often. And I have read this helpful and priceless forum. It just seems nobody is allowed to say anything positive about big law. Although everyone seems to admit one's experience is mostly determined by their group as oppose to the actual practice.

biglaw associates that do the work are allowed to say positive things. there are some associates who get lucky and have good groups. but its just a crapshoot of luck. and i think its also pretty telling that the few people who do like their work, usually leave biglaw still.

All I'm saying is that isn't everything that relates to working in an environment of big law, investment banking, sales and etc include things like "group chemistry, personal sacrifice, luck, politics and other things". In terms of job satisfaction and career potential.

[Johann]

I actually don't watch TV very often. And I have read this helpful and priceless forum. It just seems nobody is allowed to say anything positive about big law. Although everyone seems to admit one's experience is mostly determined by their group as oppose to the actual practice.

biglaw associates that do the work are allowed to say positive things. there are some associates who get lucky and have good groups. but its just a crapshoot of luck. and i think its also pretty telling that the few people who do like their work, usually leave biglaw still.

All I'm saying is that isn't everything that relates to working in an environment of big law, investment banking, sales and etc include things like "group chemistry, personal sacrifice, luck, politics and other things". In terms of job satisfaction and career potential.

and the whole point of this thread and many other threads is that in law the odds are more stacked against you having a career that doesnt drive you crazy. the takeaway is if you are smart enough to do something else, you should. job dissatisfaction surveys show it, anecdotal evidence and opinions here show it, posters explain the difference here and provide logical reasons why biglaw is different and worse. my life doesnt suck bc i dont really let things like this get me down but its not like my life is good; and id change everything if i could redo it and still might change everything by going to get an mba in the next couple years. im 250k+ in debt, get home after my SO is asleep 2 nights a week, sleep less than 6 hours every weeknight, dont have hobbies, have already missed funerals and weddings i would have gone to otherwise, but i make a decent amount of money that would not be that decent in NYC. out of the 10ish partners in my group, there are only 2 who have kids and is not divorced and all of them were married at some point. im now scrambling for exit options as fast as possible because i know the alternative is being divorced/having my kids hate me.

[xspider]

I actually don't watch TV very often. And I have read this helpful and priceless forum. It just seems nobody is allowed to say anything positive about big law. Although everyone seems to admit one's experience is mostly determined by their group as oppose to the actual practice.

biglaw associates that do the work are allowed to say positive things. there are some associates who get lucky and have good groups. but its just a crapshoot of luck. and i think its also pretty telling that the few people who do like their work, usually leave biglaw still.

All I'm saying is that isn't everything that relates to working in an environment of big law, investment banking, sales and etc include things like "group chemistry, personal sacrifice, luck, politics and other things". In terms of job satisfaction and career potential.

and the whole point of this thread and many other threads is that in law the odds are more stacked against you having a career that doesnt drive you crazy. the takeaway is if you are smart enough to do something else, you should. job dissatisfaction surveys show it, anecdotal evidence and opinions here show it, posters explain the difference here and provide logical reasons why biglaw is different and worse. my life doesnt suck bc i dont really let things like this get me down but its not like my life is good; and id change everything if i could redo it and still might change everything by going to get an mba in the next couple years. im 250k+ in debt, get home after my SO is asleep 2 nights a week, sleep less than 6 hours every weeknight, dont have hobbies, have already missed funerals and weddings i would have gone to otherwise, but i make a decent amount of money that would not be that decent in NYC. out of the 10ish partners in my group, there are only 2 who have kids and is not divorced and all of them were married at some point. im now scrambling for exit options as fast as possible because i know the alternative is being divorced/having my kids hate me.

I'm very sorry that is the reality of your life. The conversation has taken another turn, best of luck with your hopes and dreams

[Johann]

I actually don't watch TV very often. And I have read this helpful and priceless forum. It just seems nobody is allowed to say anything positive about big law. Although everyone seems to admit one's experience is mostly determined by their group as oppose to the actual practice.

biglaw associates that do the work are allowed to say positive things. there are some associates who get lucky and have good groups. but its just a crapshoot of luck. and i think its also pretty telling that the few people who do like their work, usually leave biglaw still.

All I'm saying is that isn't everything that relates to working in an environment of big law, investment banking, sales and etc include things like "group chemistry, personal sacrifice, luck, politics and other things". In terms of job satisfaction and career potential.

and the whole point of this thread and many other threads is that in law the odds are more stacked against you having a career that doesnt drive you crazy. the takeaway is if you are smart enough to do something else, you should. job dissatisfaction surveys show it, anecdotal evidence and opinions here show it, posters explain the difference here and provide logical reasons why biglaw is different and worse. my life doesnt suck bc i dont really let things like this get me down but its not like my life is good; and id change everything if i could redo it and still might change everything by going to get an mba in the next couple years. im 250k+ in debt, get home after my SO is asleep 2 nights a week, sleep less than 6 hours every weeknight, dont have hobbies, have already missed funerals and weddings i would have gone to otherwise, but i make a decent amount of money that would not be that decent in NYC. out of the 10ish partners in my group, there are only 2 who have kids and is not divorced and all of them were married at some point. im now scrambling for exit options as fast as possible because i know the alternative is being divorced/having my kids hate me.

I'm very sorry that is the reality of your life. The conversation has taken another turn, best of luck with your hopes and dreams

happens to 90% of people who do biglaw. thankfully i dont have the regret of people telling me how my career would play out to a T. best of luck with your hopes and dreams.

[BernieTrump]

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[BernieTrump]

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[BernieTrump]

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[BernieTrump]

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[luckenmeister]

The fake salary stat ITT for jobs like police officers are totally absurd. Police officers make less than $50k starting and non-officers will never make six figures. http://work.chron.com/salary-rookie-cop-nypd-2215.html

Train conductors make at most $80k in NY, and those are the highest paid in the country. http://work.chron.com/much-money-train- ... 10755.html. The low is $40k. They will not make six figures in that position.

Don't misrepresent and inflate the salary data of other professions to make biglaw seem worse. Biglaw is bad enough on its own even considering the high compensation.

This is could not be more wrong. NYPD is outlier low for major city and major suburb police salaries (though it has phenomenal overtime policies which aren't reflected in top line salaries). There's a reason I said NY suburbs, not NYPD. I come from a huge LEO family, and know where pay is decent (several cousins have moved across the country expressly to get good salary befits, after targeting good depts).

Without cherry picking, I randomly googled San Jose, Boston and nice NY suburbs' police (sheriffs were higher across all these, but ignoring that because I said the PD) salaries. Here were the first Google hits for each:

http://www.sjpd.org/JoinSJPDBlue/SalaryBenefits.html San Jose: The kid in the academy is getting almost $40/hr. After training, your first year is at 80K and 4th year (where you'd be had you foregone law school and just started) is over 100K. This does not account for overtime (which every junior cop gets in buckets because they're willing to work that parade (i.e. stand there for 7 hours at $75/hr)). This does not account for defined benefit pension and retirement, which is still 50% of your top salary (i.e. minimum 70-100K) per year after age 50. It was even more generous for previous generation. Go ahead and compute the NPV of that (huge) vs. the nothing a law firm gives you. They also get insurance that people in the private sector haven't seen it 20 years, with 95+% of costs covered, even in retirement. For reference, more and more top law firms have gone high deductible and/or making associates pay most of the premium. It's amazing that more associates don't pay attention to this, as it's $6k/yr out of pocket difference between firms for those who have medical conditions, kids or a wife that might become pregnant (some firms still have great plans and you save this amount). Also note that this $100K after a few years is if you're never promoted (detective, LT, etc.), which many smart people are.

https://www.bostonglobe.com/metro/2013/ ... story.html This is Boston, and it shows the effects of overtime in the total comp. section (it's yuge). It's just the comp. roll of the police department. First years at Wilmer are "balling" just as hard as the average cop (especially after $3K/mo in after-tax loan payments), and the associates are likely to make far less later in life and get no benefits. Also note these were the salaries in 2012. Also on my google search was the fact that the union renegotiated in 2014, with the effect of salaries being much higher, and all cops getting a "backpay" check of 3-4 months of their top line salary.

http://www.salon.com/2014/04/11/obscene ... l_outrage/ Here's a writeup for the NYC suburbs (all of nice CT, Westchester and Nassau/LI have huge salaries, if less overtime than NYPD).

I'm not turning this into a LEO salary debate, but I assure you that you have no idea what you're talking about. Even in more normal cities you need to calculate cost of living, quality of life, the lack of $3K/month in non-deductible loan payments (go ahead and google after-tax pay stubs in NYC on $160K and back out $3K for a studio and $3K for loans on a 10 year plan) and the massive, massive benefits (big-law offers none, even if you stick it out).

Go into biglaw because you love being in the room with important people who hate you and moving commas, not because you like money or respect. You'll have neither.

Your argument still makes absolutely no sense, as a biglaw associate still makes twice as much at every step (not including bonuses). Furthermore, you still havent answered the question as to why you continue? You should have made enough by now to have paid off any debt. Why not quit and become a MTA employee or a police officer? More importantly, why haven't you even attempted to change firms, move out of NYC, or go to a less demanding midlaw firm (My Midlaw firm seeks out associates from larger firms). I don't understand why you choose to complain about your situation without doing anything to try and change it or get out of your job.

As for OP, JohannDeMann, and any other biglaw associates on here who mentioned not having time with family, why are you not spending that time with them now? How do you have the time to consistently post on the forums and yet not have time for hobbies or sleep? It seems like this is your hobby?

[tomwatts]

Why not quit and become a MTA employee or a police officer?

Yeah, my thought in reading the last few pages of this thread was that anyone who thinks that you can earn over 100K as a janitor in NYC should probably quit the law and get in on some of that sweet, sweet janitorial cash.

(Or become a cop, or whatever.)

[Paul Campos]

Sticker debt for somebody who enrolled at HLS in 2005: $207K

Sticker debt for somebody who enrolls this fall: $330K

That's a 60% increase. The CPI has increased 20% over that time.

The striking thing is that the entering class of 2005 paid a similar premium when compared to the entering class of 1994 as the entering class of 2016 will pay when compared to the class of 2005. And you can see the same effect when comparing the class of 1994 to that of 1983.

[BernieTrump]

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[luckenmeister]

The fake salary stat ITT for jobs like police officers are totally absurd. Police officers make less than $50k starting and non-officers will never make six figures. http://work.chron.com/salary-rookie-cop-nypd-2215.html

Train conductors make at most $80k in NY, and those are the highest paid in the country. http://work.chron.com/much-money-train- ... 10755.html. The low is $40k. They will not make six figures in that position.

Don't misrepresent and inflate the salary data of other professions to make biglaw seem worse. Biglaw is bad enough on its own even considering the high compensation.

This is could not be more wrong. NYPD is outlier low for major city and major suburb police salaries (though it has phenomenal overtime policies which aren't reflected in top line salaries). There's a reason I said NY suburbs, not NYPD. I come from a huge LEO family, and know where pay is decent (several cousins have moved across the country expressly to get good salary befits, after targeting good depts).

Without cherry picking, I randomly googled San Jose, Boston and nice NY suburbs' police (sheriffs were higher across all these, but ignoring that because I said the PD) salaries. Here were the first Google hits for each:

http://www.sjpd.org/JoinSJPDBlue/SalaryBenefits.html San Jose: The kid in the academy is getting almost $40/hr. After training, your first year is at 80K and 4th year (where you'd be had you foregone law school and just started) is over 100K. This does not account for overtime (which every junior cop gets in buckets because they're willing to work that parade (i.e. stand there for 7 hours at $75/hr)). This does not account for defined benefit pension and retirement, which is still 50% of your top salary (i.e. minimum 70-100K) per year after age 50. It was even more generous for previous generation. Go ahead and compute the NPV of that (huge) vs. the nothing a law firm gives you. They also get insurance that people in the private sector haven't seen it 20 years, with 95+% of costs covered, even in retirement. For reference, more and more top law firms have gone high deductible and/or making associates pay most of the premium. It's amazing that more associates don't pay attention to this, as it's $6k/yr out of pocket difference between firms for those who have medical conditions, kids or a wife that might become pregnant (some firms still have great plans and you save this amount). Also note that this $100K after a few years is if you're never promoted (detective, LT, etc.), which many smart people are.

https://www.bostonglobe.com/metro/2013/ ... story.html This is Boston, and it shows the effects of overtime in the total comp. section (it's yuge). It's just the comp. roll of the police department. First years at Wilmer are "balling" just as hard as the average cop (especially after $3K/mo in after-tax loan payments), and the associates are likely to make far less later in life and get no benefits. Also note these were the salaries in 2012. Also on my google search was the fact that the union renegotiated in 2014, with the effect of salaries being much higher, and all cops getting a "backpay" check of 3-4 months of their top line salary.

http://www.salon.com/2014/04/11/obscene ... l_outrage/ Here's a writeup for the NYC suburbs (all of nice CT, Westchester and Nassau/LI have huge salaries, if less overtime than NYPD).

I'm not turning this into a LEO salary debate, but I assure you that you have no idea what you're talking about. Even in more normal cities you need to calculate cost of living, quality of life, the lack of $3K/month in non-deductible loan payments (go ahead and google after-tax pay stubs in NYC on $160K and back out $3K for a studio and $3K for loans on a 10 year plan) and the massive, massive benefits (big-law offers none, even if you stick it out).

Go into biglaw because you love being in the room with important people who hate you and moving commas, not because you like money or respect. You'll have neither.

Your argument still makes absolutely no sense, as a biglaw associate still makes twice as much at every step (not including bonuses). Furthermore, you still havent answered the question as to why you continue? You should have made enough by now to have paid off any debt. Why not quit and become a MTA employee or a police officer? More importantly, why haven't you even attempted to change firms, move out of NYC, or go to a less demanding midlaw firm (My Midlaw firm seeks out associates from larger firms). I don't understand why you choose to complain about your situation without doing anything to try and change it or get out of your job.

As for OP, JohannDeMann, and any other biglaw associates on here who mentioned not having time with family, why are you not spending that time with them now? How do you have the time to consistently post on the forums and yet not have time for hobbies or sleep? It seems like this is your hobby?

Ahh 0Ls. Let's go to school.

That BIGLAW associate is taxed at a much higher rate for the few years he makes money.

The BIGLAW associate has 2-3k/mo post-tax loan payments.

The BIGLAW associate will make far less in after few years when he gets exited (and maintain the loan payments). The gov't employee will make more money.

The BIGLAW associate is putting away 18k/year tax free in a 401k. If they do that every year until retirement, they'll get the pension at 60 the cop gets at 50. The cop doesn't use a 401K because he's got a great pension. If you compute out the NPV of good pensions at 50, that alone almost covers the difference.

The BIGLAW associate is out of pocket for first few thousand (at least) in medical expenses ever year. Cop has gold-plated insurance.

You said the BIGLAW associate makes twice is much at the same time. That's demonstrably false. 80% are swept out of biglaw, and making the same or less than the cop (with the same loans) by year 4-5. The BIGLAW people have less disposable cash.

Get out a paystub estimator. Get out excel. Get back to me. This isn't to say being a cop is a great job. I'm just saying that in the 20 years since BIGLAW salaries+bonus last went up, a lot of careers have caught up in terms of comp.

As for seeing my family, it's 11:30. I saw my wife all day. It was great. I would have wanted to go down to see my family, but I had a draft that might come across this weekend and needed to be ready for issue and a call. Will come tomorrow and the call will be tomorrow, but BIGLAW doesn't slow down for Easter (or Christmas, or Thanksgiving) except marginally. If the drafts comes in, it needs to be turned.

I have 30 PMs I promised to respond to 2-3 weeks ago when I made this thread. I logged on once or twice since then (both after 11). I wasn't not responding because I was Eat, Pray, Loving on some great beach. I was in the office until 10-11 every night, including the weekends.

But it will all be different for you.

For the 3rd time, WHY HAVEN'T YOU LEFT!?

[BernieTrump]

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[rpupkin]

As for OP, JohannDeMann, and any other biglaw associates on here who mentioned not having time with family, why are you not spending that time with them now? How do you have the time to consistently post on the forums and yet not have time for hobbies or sleep? It seems like this is your hobby?

A couple of responses to this point, which 0Ls make from time to time. First, I think y'all vastly overestimate how long it takes to type up a paragraph or two. When I post, it probably takes me an average of 45 to 60 seconds to type a response. Even on days when I post several times, I'm probably spending no more than 10-15 minutes total on TLS.

Second, browsing and posting is something that I do during downtimes. If i'm in the office on a Sunday and waiting for a partner to get back to me so that I can finish a task and get out of the office, I might browse TLS (or check sports scores or read blog posts or something else to pass the time). It's not like I'm spending time on TLS at the expense of hanging out with friends and family. I expect the same is true for many working lawyers who post here.

[PeanutsNJam]

I love how people are marrying biglaw with sticker debt (or high debt, or debt at all), as if the two are inextricably tied.

[luckenmeister]

As for OP, JohannDeMann, and any other biglaw associates on here who mentioned not having time with family, why are you not spending that time with them now? How do you have the time to consistently post on the forums and yet not have time for hobbies or sleep? It seems like this is your hobby?

A couple of responses to this point, which 0Ls make from time to time. First, I think y'all vastly overestimate how long it takes to type up a paragraph or two. When I post, it probably takes me an average of 45 to 60 seconds to type a response. Even on days when I post several times, I'm probably spending no more than 10-15 minutes total on TLS.

Second, browsing and posting is something that I do during downtimes. If i'm in the office on a Sunday and waiting for a partner to get back to me so that I can finish a task and get out of the office, I might browse TLS (or check sports scores or read blog posts or something else to pass the time). It's not like I'm spending time on TLS at the expense of hanging out with friends and family. I expect the same is true for many working lawyers who post here.

Congrats, want a cookie?

Sorry to be a douche, but what the hell are you talking about? You must be hallucinating about this job and imaginary office, because according to your posts, you're a 2L right now (you took the Dec. 2013 lsat). I don't know if you think it's funny, but the amount of time you spend here fabricating stories and trolling is pretty pathetic (and this coming from someone who only found out about this place ~3 months ago).

Anyway, back to OP, why haven't you tried to make a lateral move? There is no way that someone could work 8 years at a V3 and not be able to work at a different law firm. Furthermore, and for the fourth time, why haven't you left NYC? Simply not getting any looks at non-law positions doesn't account for the fact that it seems you have done very little to change your situation.

[rpupkin]

As for OP, JohannDeMann, and any other biglaw associates on here who mentioned not having time with family, why are you not spending that time with them now? How do you have the time to consistently post on the forums and yet not have time for hobbies or sleep? It seems like this is your hobby?

A couple of responses to this point, which 0Ls make from time to time. First, I think y'all vastly overestimate how long it takes to type up a paragraph or two. When I post, it probably takes me an average of 45 to 60 seconds to type a response. Even on days when I post several times, I'm probably spending no more than 10-15 minutes total on TLS.

Second, browsing and posting is something that I do during downtimes. If i'm in the office on a Sunday and waiting for a partner to get back to me so that I can finish a task and get out of the office, I might browse TLS (or check sports scores or read blog posts or something else to pass the time). It's not like I'm spending time on TLS at the expense of hanging out with friends and family. I expect the same is true for many working lawyers who post here.

Congrats, want a cookie?

Sorry to be a douche, but what the hell are you talking about? You must be hallucinating about this job and imaginary office, because according to your posts, you're a 2L right now (you took the Dec. 2013 lsat). I don't know if you think it's funny, but the amount of time you spend here fabricating stories and trolling is pretty pathetic (and this coming from someone who only found out about this place ~3 months ago).

Wow, good sleuthing!! You totally figured out my charade. Once you combine this cunning and insight with your passion for law, there will be no stopping you!

For what it's worth, I graduated law school in 2012, clerked for a year, and have practiced since. Yes, I do troll on here occasionally, but only the especially dense posters can't distinguish my troll posts from the serious ones.

[lavarman84]

Anyway, back to OP, why haven't you tried to make a lateral move? There is no way that someone could work 8 years at a V3 and not be able to work at a different law firm. Furthermore, and for the fourth time, why haven't you left NYC? Simply not getting any looks at non-law positions doesn't account for the fact that it seems you have done very little to change your situation.

He's already explained this multiple times. Read the thread.

You're a 0L. Stop assuming you know everything.

[jbagelboy]

The fake salary stat ITT for jobs like police officers are totally absurd. Police officers make less than $50k starting and non-officers will never make six figures. http://work.chron.com/salary-rookie-cop-nypd-2215.html

Train conductors make at most $80k in NY, and those are the highest paid in the country. http://work.chron.com/much-money-train- ... 10755.html. The low is $40k. They will not make six figures in that position.

Don't misrepresent and inflate the salary data of other professions to make biglaw seem worse. Biglaw is bad enough on its own even considering the high compensation.

This is wrong. NYPD is outlier low for major city and major suburb police salaries (though it has phenomenal overtime policies which aren't reflected in top line salaries). There's a reason I said NY suburbs, not NYPD. I come from a huge LEO family, and know where pay is decent (several cousins have moved across the country expressly to get good salary befits, after targeting good depts).

Without cherry picking, I randomly googled San Jose, Boston and nice NY suburbs' police (sheriffs were higher across all these, but ignoring that because I said the PD) salaries. Here were the first Google hits for each:

http://www.sjpd.org/JoinSJPDBlue/SalaryBenefits.html San Jose: The kid in the academy is getting almost $40/hr. After training, your first year is at 80K and 4th year (where you'd be had you foregone law school and just started) is over 100K. This does not account for overtime (which every junior cop gets in buckets because they're willing to work that parade (i.e. stand there for 7 hours at $75/hr)). This does not account for defined benefit pension and retirement, which is still 50% of your top salary (i.e. minimum 70-100K) per year after age 50. It was even more generous for previous generation. Go ahead and compute the NPV of that (huge) vs. the nothing a law firm gives you. They also get insurance that people in the private sector haven't seen it 20 years, with 95+% of costs covered, even in retirement. For reference, more and more top law firms have gone high deductible and/or making associates pay most of the premium. It's amazing that more associates don't pay attention to this, as it's $6k/yr out of pocket difference between firms for those who have medical conditions, kids or a wife that might become pregnant (some firms still have great plans and you save this amount). Also note that this $100K after a few years is if you're never promoted (detective, LT, etc.), which many smart people are.

https://www.bostonglobe.com/metro/2013/ ... story.html This is Boston, and it shows the effects of overtime in the total comp. section (it's yuge). It's just the comp. roll of the police department. First years at Wilmer are "balling" just as hard as the average cop (especially after $3K/mo in after-tax loan payments), and the associates are likely to make far less later in life and get no benefits. Also note these were the salaries in 2012. Also on my google search was the fact that the union renegotiated in 2014, with the effect of salaries being much higher, and all cops getting a "backpay" check of 3-4 months of their top line salary.

http://www.salon.com/2014/04/11/obscene ... l_outrage/ Here's a writeup for the NYC suburbs (all of nice CT, Westchester and Nassau/LI have huge salaries, if less overtime than NYPD).

I'm not turning this into a LEO salary debate, but I assure you that you have no idea what you're talking about. Even in more normal cities you need to calculate cost of living, quality of life, the lack of $3K/month in non-deductible loan payments (go ahead and google after-tax pay stubs in NYC on $160K and back out $3K for a studio and $3K for loans on a 10 year plan) and the massive, massive benefits (big-law offers none, even if you stick it out).

Go into biglaw because you love being in the room with important people who hate you and moving commas, not because you like money or respect. You'll have neither.

Bro, I completely agree with you about biglaw - did you read my last paragraph? I just think inflating salary data in other careers that do not require graduate degrees is an effective way to describe how shitty the modal biglaw associate's lot really is. (Wrt to the numbers/ you can't just look at biglaw as $175k starting--you have to incorporate the increases in comp each year, which are much higher than professions like teachers and police officers). The point we're all making is not that firm lawyers earn shit money in the abstract, its that they earn nowhere near enough money after taxes, loan payments, and high COL to justify the sacrifice or the opportunity cost relative to other professions.

[Cogburn87]

Congrats, want a cookie?

Sorry to be a douche, but what the hell are you talking about? You must be hallucinating about this job and imaginary office, because according to your posts, you're a 2L right now (you took the Dec. 2013 lsat). I don't know if you think it's funny, but the amount of time you spend here fabricating stories and trolling is pretty pathetic (and this coming from someone who only found out about this place ~3 months ago).

Anyway, back to OP, why haven't you tried to make a lateral move? There is no way that someone could work 8 years at a V3 and not be able to work at a different law firm. Furthermore, and for the fourth time, why haven't you left NYC? Simply not getting any looks at non-law positions doesn't account for the fact that it seems you have done very little to change your situation.

You deserve unhappiness.

[Tls2016]

Anyway, back to OP, why haven't you tried to make a lateral move? There is no way that someone could work 8 years at a V3 and not be able to work at a different law firm. Furthermore, and for the fourth time, why haven't you left NYC? Simply not getting any looks at non-law positions doesn't account for the fact that it seems you have done very little to change your situation.

He's already explained this multiple times. Read the thread.

You're a 0L. Stop assuming you know everything.

I've barely paid attention to the thread and I know the answers to this. I'm mean I ve skimmed this quickly and I got those answers.
He wants out of law.
Lateral offers haven't been an improvement in life style or he has to move to Iowa.
His wife wants to live in NYC because of her family.
His job takes all his time.

I'm sure there is more that I've missed, but those questions have been answered.

I don't understand why you are even launching these attacks on OP, what he does with his future doesn't discount the validity of his experience. Are you saying that his posts can't possibly be true because he would have left this job?