So you want to be a NY Corporate Associate? Forum

[PeanutsNJam]

Just fucking lol @ "160k in New York is enough to live on; no more no less."

Cops in SF (highest paid nationally) make 81k, and up to 113k in seven years. Source: http://sanfranciscopolice.org/salary-and-benefits Also remember SF CoL is higher than NYC. Source: http://www.numbeo.com/cost-of-living/co ... isco%2C+CA

And being a police officer isn't an easy job; it should be well compensated. There's the whole chances of being shot and having to deal with death on a regular basis deal.

Can you live like a king on 160k? No. Is it a lot of money? Yes. And re: 200k debt; that's not biglaw's problem. Retake the LSAT.

I get biglaw is tough and it sucks but try to be objective. Spouting ridiculous hyperboles to defend an unsound point just ruins your credibility.

[luckenmeister]

Just fucking lol @ "160k in New York is enough to live on; no more no less."

Cops in SF (highest paid nationally) make 81k, and up to 113k in seven years. Source: http://sanfranciscopolice.org/salary-and-benefits Also remember SF CoL is higher than NYC. Source: http://www.numbeo.com/cost-of-living/co ... isco%2C+CA

And being a police officer isn't an easy job; it should be well compensated. There's the whole chances of being shot and having to deal with death on a regular basis deal.

Can you live like a king on 160k? No. Is it a lot of money? Yes. And re: 200k debt; that's not biglaw's problem. Retake the LSAT.

I get biglaw is tough and it sucks but try to be objective. Spouting ridiculous hyperboles to defend an unsound point just ruins your credibility.

This.

And can someone tell me who the hell makes more? Unless you're a doctor or in select business areas (or some famous sports/actor/media star), you aren't making more money than a biglaw associate. Especially an 8 yr associate who gets well over $300k after bonuses. Plus, there are rumors that NYC is going to a $190k start. So again, if you can't make it in nyc as a biglaw associate, you can't make it in nyc at all.

[Alive97]

I know it's litigation, but the idea of traveling to take depositions (I have sat on numerous), meet with clients, and try cases sounds like a dream.

Just know that you should not seek biglaw if this is your expectation.

[BmoreOrLess]

Just fucking lol @ "160k in New York is enough to live on; no more no less."

Cops in SF (highest paid nationally) make 81k, and up to 113k in seven years. Source: http://sanfranciscopolice.org/salary-and-benefits Also remember SF CoL is higher than NYC. Source: http://www.numbeo.com/cost-of-living/co ... isco%2C+CA

And being a police officer isn't an easy job; it should be well compensated. There's the whole chances of being shot and having to deal with death on a regular basis deal.

Can you live like a king on 160k? No. Is it a lot of money? Yes. And re: 200k debt; that's not biglaw's problem. Retake the LSAT.

I get biglaw is tough and it sucks but try to be objective. Spouting ridiculous hyperboles to defend an unsound point just ruins your credibility.

Also don't forget that many (if not most) starting police officers in big cities get stuck on overnight shifts. This helps them make more money because it opens up more overtime opportunities, but QOL is definitely brutal.

[Johann]

The fake salary stat ITT for jobs like police officers are totally absurd. Police officers make less than $50k starting and non-officers will never make six figures. http://work.chron.com/salary-rookie-cop-nypd-2215.html

Train conductors make at most $80k in NY, and those are the highest paid in the country. http://work.chron.com/much-money-train- ... 10755.html. The low is $40k. They will not make six figures in that position.

Don't misrepresent and inflate the salary data of other professions to make biglaw seem worse. Biglaw is bad enough on its own even considering the high compensation.

they get pretty good benefits though while biglaw has no benefits. it is a little bit inflated to say 100k for a train conductor, but once you factor in pension and union/govt benefits, you could be missing 20k of after tax income so almost 35k of pretax income.

average NYC janitor makes 109k a year http://nypost.com/2015/09/20/average-ny ... 9k-a-year/
a 100k garbage man salary is actually 145k all in comp including benefits http://www.wnd.com/2011/01/253645/

[Johann]

is 160k good money? sure. is 160k in NYC going to make you rich or even upper middle class paying down 125k of debt? no.

obviously a law career is a very long investment, so there's lots of possible income years to take into account. if you are determined to be a lawyer to help people and work PI or whatever or determined to take a 3 year vacation and do some more school, law school is a fine choice. if you are trying to make a comfortable living without slaving away, law school to biglaw is a terrible choice.

[Arad]

Thanks for diverting the conversation to police officer salaries in an attempt to out-argue one another. This is really helpful and relevant to my interests.

[lawlorbust]

Just fucking lol @ "160k in New York is enough to live on; no more no less."

Cops in SF (highest paid nationally) make 81k, and up to 113k in seven years. Source: http://sanfranciscopolice.org/salary-and-benefits Also remember SF CoL is higher than NYC. Source: http://www.numbeo.com/cost-of-living/co ... isco%2C+CA

And being a police officer isn't an easy job; it should be well compensated. There's the whole chances of being shot and having to deal with death on a regular basis deal.

Can you live like a king on 160k? No. Is it a lot of money? Yes. And re: 200k debt; that's not biglaw's problem. Retake the LSAT.

I get biglaw is tough and it sucks but try to be objective. Spouting ridiculous hyperboles to defend an unsound point just ruins your credibility.

This.

And can someone tell me who the hell makes more? Unless you're a doctor or in select business areas (or some famous sports/actor/media star), you aren't making more money than a biglaw associate. Especially an 8 yr associate who gets well over $300k after bonuses. Plus, there are rumors that NYC is going to a $190k start. So again, if you can't make it in nyc as a biglaw associate, you can't make it in nyc at all.

This really isn't inconsistent with OP's arguments. After ugrad and his IB analyst stint, he had elite opportunities for his age group, and I see his claim as being that biglaw sucks compared to the other paths that he could have taken. And an industry, the likely trend is that biglaw is going to suck even more in the future, and OP is probably going to be more and more right that law simply no longer is the area where the best-and-the-brightest go into.

Your point that being a biglaw associate isn't that bad compared to other forms of work is well taken. But its applicability differs, depending on where the particular reader is situated. If you can't get a "good gig" out of college (and this is the vast majority of the U.S. population), then maybe generally bad-to-terrible working conditions, the cost of law school, etc. is an acceptable tradeoff for a $160k starting salary.

[rpupkin]

Plus, there are rumors that NYC is going to a $190k start.

I have to admit, luckenmeister, I wasn't a big fan of your first few contributions to this thread. But this line more than made up for your lackluster start. Please share the rumors you are hearing here:

http://www.top-law-schools.com/forums/v ... 3&t=251323

[Johann]

Thanks for diverting the conversation to police officer salaries in an attempt to out-argue one another. This is really helpful and relevant to my interests.

the point is that many careers in NYC pay 6 figures. so if youre getting into law for the money, but you want to work somewhere that isn't a major metro area like Minneapolis or Atlanta, you aren't going to find 160k jobs there.

[Johann]

Just fucking lol @ "160k in New York is enough to live on; no more no less."

Cops in SF (highest paid nationally) make 81k, and up to 113k in seven years. Source: http://sanfranciscopolice.org/salary-and-benefits Also remember SF CoL is higher than NYC. Source: http://www.numbeo.com/cost-of-living/co ... isco%2C+CA

And being a police officer isn't an easy job; it should be well compensated. There's the whole chances of being shot and having to deal with death on a regular basis deal.

Can you live like a king on 160k? No. Is it a lot of money? Yes. And re: 200k debt; that's not biglaw's problem. Retake the LSAT.

I get biglaw is tough and it sucks but try to be objective. Spouting ridiculous hyperboles to defend an unsound point just ruins your credibility.

This.

And can someone tell me who the hell makes more? Unless you're a doctor or in select business areas (or some famous sports/actor/media star), you aren't making more money than a biglaw associate. Especially an 8 yr associate who gets well over $300k after bonuses. Plus, there are rumors that NYC is going to a $190k start. So again, if you can't make it in nyc as a biglaw associate, you can't make it in nyc at all.

This really isn't inconsistent with OP's arguments. After ugrad and his IB analyst stint, he had elite opportunities for his age group, and I see his claim as being that biglaw sucks compared to the other paths that he could have taken. And an industry, the likely trend is that biglaw is going to suck even more in the future, and OP is probably going to be more and more right that law simply no longer is the area where the best-and-the-brightest go into.

Your point that being a biglaw associate isn't that bad compared to other forms of work is well taken. But its applicability differs, depending on where the particular reader is situated. If you can't get a "good gig" out of college (and this is the vast majority of the U.S. population), then maybe generally bad-to-terrible working conditions, the cost of law school, etc. is an acceptable tradeoff for a $160k starting salary.

Exactly. It's all an opportunity cost analysis. For those that got into T-14s with business, science, engineering, etc degrees, they will almost definitely regret their choice. Someone that got into a T3 with a poli sci/psychology degree might not regret choosing law because the alternative options aren't that great.

[180kickflip]

The fake salary stat ITT for jobs like police officers are totally absurd. Police officers make less than $50k starting and non-officers will never make six figures. http://work.chron.com/salary-rookie-cop-nypd-2215.html

Train conductors make at most $80k in NY, and those are the highest paid in the country. http://work.chron.com/much-money-train- ... 10755.html. The low is $40k. They will not make six figures in that position.

Don't misrepresent and inflate the salary data of other professions to make biglaw seem worse. Biglaw is bad enough on its own even considering the high compensation.

These salaries look right to me. In boston, mbta conductors also get paid like that. Tons of boston police make 6 figures too (some make almost that much just in OT detail work). Boston public school teachers average around 75k/yr I think, but many earn six figures...and all of these positions have pensions. I guess it's true they're not all starting salaries though.

[xspider]

Albeit a 0L. I still do not understand the whole big law hate. Doesn't every job that involves a form of business require sacrifice of personal relationships at times(or most of the time) if one wants the big paycheck? The debt is not really a issue with big law in my opinion because the law firm has no power and cares nothing about law school cost, so they likely do not feel the need to increase salaries with cost of attendance.

Back to other high paying professions, it seems like most people complain because of the toxic people, even if the people are toxic, does anyone really expect to be billed at 200+ a hour with fortune 500 companies writing massive checks to entail a "lax" environment or job? If I were spending thousands of dollars on legal fees as a financial institution, you are darn right I am going to be on someone's tail about documents being sent and setting outrageous expectations. You ask why? Because someone is probably on my tail or my clients that pay my exorbitant salary are on my tail demanding results.

I think every field that is driven from sales of services will provide a rough environment, but it really seems like people almost seem to expect because they worked hard academically their whole life, they deserve the most fulfilling, non-pressured, highest paying job with max stability. Which is crazy.

[bowser]

Albeit a 0L. I still do not understand the whole big law hate. Doesn't every job that involves a form of business require sacrifice of personal relationships at times(or most of the time) if one wants the big paycheck? The debt is not really a issue with big law in my opinion because the law firm has no power and cares nothing about law school cost, so they likely do not feel the need to increase salaries with cost of attendance.

Back to other high paying professions, it seems like most people complain because of the toxic people, even if the people are toxic, does anyone really expect to be billed at 200+ a hour with fortune 500 companies writing massive checks to entail a "lax" environment or job? If I were spending thousands of dollars on legal fees as a financial institution, you are darn right I am going to be on someone's tail about documents being sent and setting outrageous expectations. You ask why? Because someone is probably on my tail or my clients that pay my exorbitant salary are on my tail demanding results.

I think every field that is driven from sales of services will provide a rough environment, but it really seems like people almost seem to expect because they worked hard academically their whole life, they deserve the most fulfilling, non-pressured, highest paying job with max stability. Which is crazy.

It's not what people think they deserve; it's what they can live with. Most people, even the high-achieving ones, cannot sustain the demands of biglaw for longer than a few years.

[Johann]

Albeit a 0L. I still do not understand the whole big law hate. Doesn't every job that involves a form of business require sacrifice of personal relationships at times(or most of the time) if one wants the big paycheck? The debt is not really a issue with big law in my opinion because the law firm has no power and cares nothing about law school cost, so they likely do not feel the need to increase salaries with cost of attendance.

Back to other high paying professions, it seems like most people complain because of the toxic people, even if the people are toxic, does anyone really expect to be billed at 200+ a hour with fortune 500 companies writing massive checks to entail a "lax" environment or job? If I were spending thousands of dollars on legal fees as a financial institution, you are darn right I am going to be on someone's tail about documents being sent and setting outrageous expectations. You ask why? Because someone is probably on my tail or my clients that pay my exorbitant salary are on my tail demanding results.

I think every field that is driven from sales of services will provide a rough environment, but it really seems like people almost seem to expect because they worked hard academically their whole life, they deserve the most fulfilling, non-pressured, highest paying job with max stability. Which is crazy.

theres a reason attorney is objectively one of the top 1 or 2 hated jobs every year for the last 20 years. law is much worse than other high paying jobs. corporate monkeys in cities make six figures relatively easy with 40 hour work weeks and no work email on their phone. while biglaw pays higher them, the difference between 100k and 160k isnt really all that great especially when the former dont require student loans.

as to lawyers working harder, yeah its true. the billable horu requires it. you dont bill unless youre actually working. billable requirement is usually 2000 - 2100. so that 2-3 hours a day most people spend at work doing personal things (reading news, sports, fantasy sports, talking to their SO, etc) is credited in all jobs outside the service industry. in law, that 2 hours just means to get your 8 billables for the day you need to be there 10-11 hours. most jobs get 4 weeks vacation a year and 10 or so holidays. thats 6 weeks of time you dont have to spend in the office that you are being paid for. that doesn't matter when you're against the billable hour. want to take more than 2 weeks vacation per year (excluding holidays)? better get 9-10 billables a day and be in the office 12-13 hours a day. that's also just pure billable hours. you have to write articles, travel to nonbillable work conferences, give speeches etc if you want to last more than 2 years. 2 3-day conferences per year means you lost 60 billables and that 12-13 hours in the office moves to 13-14.

if you are just trying to stay for 2 years and leave to a lower paying job, you can probably get away with missing your 2000 hours and hitting 1900 for both years and no non-billable extras. so that's like 10 hours a day in the office with a couple weeks of vacation and holidays. if you want to be there for 5 years, youre looking at 2200 billables every year and another 200 nonbillables. 2400 hours of work = 14 hour days in the office 5 days a week with 2 weeks of vacation including holidays. have fun with that life.

[lawlorbust]

Albeit a 0L. I still do not understand the whole big law hate. Doesn't every job that involves a form of business require sacrifice of personal relationships at times(or most of the time) if one wants the big paycheck? The debt is not really a issue with big law in my opinion because the law firm has no power and cares nothing about law school cost, so they likely do not feel the need to increase salaries with cost of attendance.

Back to other high paying professions, it seems like most people complain because of the toxic people, even if the people are toxic, does anyone really expect to be billed at 200+ a hour with fortune 500 companies writing massive checks to entail a "lax" environment or job? If I were spending thousands of dollars on legal fees as a financial institution, you are darn right I am going to be on someone's tail about documents being sent and setting outrageous expectations. You ask why? Because someone is probably on my tail or my clients that pay my exorbitant salary are on my tail demanding results.

I think every field that is driven from sales of services will provide a rough environment, but it really seems like people almost seem to expect because they worked hard academically their whole life, they deserve the most fulfilling, non-pressured, highest paying job with max stability. Which is crazy.

It's not what people think they deserve; it's what they can live with. Most people, even the high-achieving ones, cannot sustain the demands of biglaw for longer than a few years.

And it's also descriptively not true.

xspider might have skipped the last 15 pages, and that's fine, but other "high paying professions" -- tech, consulting, banking -- have better working environments AND better outs. (Even if the difference is in degree rather than in kind.)

[Tls2016]

Albeit a 0L. I still do not understand the whole big law hate. Doesn't every job that involves a form of business require sacrifice of personal relationships at times(or most of the time) if one wants the big paycheck? The debt is not really a issue with big law in my opinion because the law firm has no power and cares nothing about law school cost, so they likely do not feel the need to increase salaries with cost of attendance.

Back to other high paying professions, it seems like most people complain because of the toxic people, even if the people are toxic, does anyone really expect to be billed at 200+ a hour with fortune 500 companies writing massive checks to entail a "lax" environment or job? If I were spending thousands of dollars on legal fees as a financial institution, you are darn right I am going to be on someone's tail about documents being sent and setting outrageous expectations. You ask why? Because someone is probably on my tail or my clients that pay my exorbitant salary are on my tail demanding results.

I think every field that is driven from sales of services will provide a rough environment, but it really seems like people almost seem to expect because they worked hard academically their whole life, they deserve the most fulfilling, non-pressured, highest paying job with max stability. Which is crazy.

Did you read anything in this thread? You are completely minimizing and misinterpreting everything actual biglaw lawyers posted.

[PeanutsNJam]

The fake salary stat ITT for jobs like police officers are totally absurd. Police officers make less than $50k starting and non-officers will never make six figures. http://work.chron.com/salary-rookie-cop-nypd-2215.html

Train conductors make at most $80k in NY, and those are the highest paid in the country. http://work.chron.com/much-money-train- ... 10755.html. The low is $40k. They will not make six figures in that position.

Don't misrepresent and inflate the salary data of other professions to make biglaw seem worse. Biglaw is bad enough on its own even considering the high compensation.

average NYC janitor makes 109k a year http://nypost.com/2015/09/20/average-ny ... 9k-a-year/

I see this quoted all the damn time. First of all, it's not a janitor. It's a "custodial engineer." This is the guy who not only supervisers the janitors, but "are responsible for the physical operation, maintenance, repair, custodial upkeep and care of a public school building and its immediate grounds; supervise, plan and are responsible for the work of the custodial and maintenance staff; heat building by means of low pressure boilers; maintain HVAC equipment; make minor repairs to steam plant, heating equipment, electrical equipment, plumbing, structure, glazing and furniture; supervise cleaning of the building and grounds; maintain the building and grounds in a safe, secure and sanitary condition; conduct inspections of building to determine needed repairs; consult with and advise officials on problems of operation, maintenance and repairs; set up custodial work schedules to ensure maximum efficiency and minimum interference with classroom activities; requisition and account for custodial and maintenance materials, tools and supplies; maintain records and prepare required reports of plant operations; within assigned budget, hire appropriate personnel and train or arrange for their training, prepare payrolls and personnel forms, pay wages and provide Worker’s Compensation Insurance for hired personnel; are responsible for interior maintenance painting of school building; perform related work." Source: http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter ... -janitor-/

It's not the dude who mops the floor.

Also, the median household income for NYC is 50k. Source: Google.

[Johann]

Albeit a 0L. I still do not understand the whole big law hate. Doesn't every job that involves a form of business require sacrifice of personal relationships at times(or most of the time) if one wants the big paycheck? The debt is not really a issue with big law in my opinion because the law firm has no power and cares nothing about law school cost, so they likely do not feel the need to increase salaries with cost of attendance.

Back to other high paying professions, it seems like most people complain because of the toxic people, even if the people are toxic, does anyone really expect to be billed at 200+ a hour with fortune 500 companies writing massive checks to entail a "lax" environment or job? If I were spending thousands of dollars on legal fees as a financial institution, you are darn right I am going to be on someone's tail about documents being sent and setting outrageous expectations. You ask why? Because someone is probably on my tail or my clients that pay my exorbitant salary are on my tail demanding results.

I think every field that is driven from sales of services will provide a rough environment, but it really seems like people almost seem to expect because they worked hard academically their whole life, they deserve the most fulfilling, non-pressured, highest paying job with max stability. Which is crazy.

Did you read anything in this thread? You are completely minimizing and misinterpreting everything actual biglaw lawyers posted.

of course he didnt read the thread. why would a 0L read and soak up this very valuable knowledge when hes watched law and order and suits.

[Johann]

The fake salary stat ITT for jobs like police officers are totally absurd. Police officers make less than $50k starting and non-officers will never make six figures. http://work.chron.com/salary-rookie-cop-nypd-2215.html

Train conductors make at most $80k in NY, and those are the highest paid in the country. http://work.chron.com/much-money-train- ... 10755.html. The low is $40k. They will not make six figures in that position.

Don't misrepresent and inflate the salary data of other professions to make biglaw seem worse. Biglaw is bad enough on its own even considering the high compensation.

average NYC janitor makes 109k a year http://nypost.com/2015/09/20/average-ny ... 9k-a-year/

I see this quoted all the damn time. First of all, it's not a janitor. It's a "custodial engineer." This is the guy who not only supervisers the janitors, but "are responsible for the physical operation, maintenance, repair, custodial upkeep and care of a public school building and its immediate grounds; supervise, plan and are responsible for the work of the custodial and maintenance staff; heat building by means of low pressure boilers; maintain HVAC equipment; make minor repairs to steam plant, heating equipment, electrical equipment, plumbing, structure, glazing and furniture; supervise cleaning of the building and grounds; maintain the building and grounds in a safe, secure and sanitary condition; conduct inspections of building to determine needed repairs; consult with and advise officials on problems of operation, maintenance and repairs; set up custodial work schedules to ensure maximum efficiency and minimum interference with classroom activities; requisition and account for custodial and maintenance materials, tools and supplies; maintain records and prepare required reports of plant operations; within assigned budget, hire appropriate personnel and train or arrange for their training, prepare payrolls and personnel forms, pay wages and provide Worker’s Compensation Insurance for hired personnel; are responsible for interior maintenance painting of school building; perform related work." Source: http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter ... -janitor-/

It's not the dude who mops the floor.

Also, the median household income for NYC is 50k. Source: Google.

nice job description of janitor you found there.

[PeanutsNJam]

The fake salary stat ITT for jobs like police officers are totally absurd. Police officers make less than $50k starting and non-officers will never make six figures. http://work.chron.com/salary-rookie-cop-nypd-2215.html

Train conductors make at most $80k in NY, and those are the highest paid in the country. http://work.chron.com/much-money-train- ... 10755.html. The low is $40k. They will not make six figures in that position.

Don't misrepresent and inflate the salary data of other professions to make biglaw seem worse. Biglaw is bad enough on its own even considering the high compensation.

average NYC janitor makes 109k a year http://nypost.com/2015/09/20/average-ny ... 9k-a-year/

I see this quoted all the damn time. First of all, it's not a janitor. It's a "custodial engineer." This is the guy who not only supervisers the janitors, but "are responsible for the physical operation, maintenance, repair, custodial upkeep and care of a public school building and its immediate grounds; supervise, plan and are responsible for the work of the custodial and maintenance staff; heat building by means of low pressure boilers; maintain HVAC equipment; make minor repairs to steam plant, heating equipment, electrical equipment, plumbing, structure, glazing and furniture; supervise cleaning of the building and grounds; maintain the building and grounds in a safe, secure and sanitary condition; conduct inspections of building to determine needed repairs; consult with and advise officials on problems of operation, maintenance and repairs; set up custodial work schedules to ensure maximum efficiency and minimum interference with classroom activities; requisition and account for custodial and maintenance materials, tools and supplies; maintain records and prepare required reports of plant operations; within assigned budget, hire appropriate personnel and train or arrange for their training, prepare payrolls and personnel forms, pay wages and provide Worker’s Compensation Insurance for hired personnel; are responsible for interior maintenance painting of school building; perform related work." Source: http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter ... -janitor-/

It's not the dude who mops the floor.

Also, the median household income for NYC is 50k. Source: Google.

nice job description of janitor you found there.

Okay, then what do you call the people this "janitor" is supervising? Re: bolded. I also don't think a "janitor" is one who hires appropriate personnel and prepares payrolls.

[Johann]

The fake salary stat ITT for jobs like police officers are totally absurd. Police officers make less than $50k starting and non-officers will never make six figures. http://work.chron.com/salary-rookie-cop-nypd-2215.html

Train conductors make at most $80k in NY, and those are the highest paid in the country. http://work.chron.com/much-money-train- ... 10755.html. The low is $40k. They will not make six figures in that position.

Don't misrepresent and inflate the salary data of other professions to make biglaw seem worse. Biglaw is bad enough on its own even considering the high compensation.

average NYC janitor makes 109k a year http://nypost.com/2015/09/20/average-ny ... 9k-a-year/

I see this quoted all the damn time. First of all, it's not a janitor. It's a "custodial engineer." This is the guy who not only supervisers the janitors, but "are responsible for the physical operation, maintenance, repair, custodial upkeep and care of a public school building and its immediate grounds; supervise, plan and are responsible for the work of the custodial and maintenance staff; heat building by means of low pressure boilers; maintain HVAC equipment; make minor repairs to steam plant, heating equipment, electrical equipment, plumbing, structure, glazing and furniture; supervise cleaning of the building and grounds; maintain the building and grounds in a safe, secure and sanitary condition; conduct inspections of building to determine needed repairs; consult with and advise officials on problems of operation, maintenance and repairs; set up custodial work schedules to ensure maximum efficiency and minimum interference with classroom activities; requisition and account for custodial and maintenance materials, tools and supplies; maintain records and prepare required reports of plant operations; within assigned budget, hire appropriate personnel and train or arrange for their training, prepare payrolls and personnel forms, pay wages and provide Worker’s Compensation Insurance for hired personnel; are responsible for interior maintenance painting of school building; perform related work." Source: http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter ... -janitor-/

It's not the dude who mops the floor.

Also, the median household income for NYC is 50k. Source: Google.

nice job description of janitor you found there.

as to the nyc median income, that includes all the other broke ass burroughs of nyc. average apt rental on manhattan is 4k per month. avg sale is $1.4 million. "But if you are defining middle class by lifestyle, to accommodate the cost of living in Manhattan, that salary would have to fall between $80,000 and $235,000." here's a good read for anyone considering living in nyc biglaw http://www.nytimes.com/2013/01/20/reale ... attan.html

its very possible to run in the red if you arent a a cheap bastard as a first year associate if you have 200k of debt.

[Johann]

The fake salary stat ITT for jobs like police officers are totally absurd. Police officers make less than $50k starting and non-officers will never make six figures. http://work.chron.com/salary-rookie-cop-nypd-2215.html

Train conductors make at most $80k in NY, and those are the highest paid in the country. http://work.chron.com/much-money-train- ... 10755.html. The low is $40k. They will not make six figures in that position.

Don't misrepresent and inflate the salary data of other professions to make biglaw seem worse. Biglaw is bad enough on its own even considering the high compensation.

average NYC janitor makes 109k a year http://nypost.com/2015/09/20/average-ny ... 9k-a-year/

I see this quoted all the damn time. First of all, it's not a janitor. It's a "custodial engineer." This is the guy who not only supervisers the janitors, but "are responsible for the physical operation, maintenance, repair, custodial upkeep and care of a public school building and its immediate grounds; supervise, plan and are responsible for the work of the custodial and maintenance staff; heat building by means of low pressure boilers; maintain HVAC equipment; make minor repairs to steam plant, heating equipment, electrical equipment, plumbing, structure, glazing and furniture; supervise cleaning of the building and grounds; maintain the building and grounds in a safe, secure and sanitary condition; conduct inspections of building to determine needed repairs; consult with and advise officials on problems of operation, maintenance and repairs; set up custodial work schedules to ensure maximum efficiency and minimum interference with classroom activities; requisition and account for custodial and maintenance materials, tools and supplies; maintain records and prepare required reports of plant operations; within assigned budget, hire appropriate personnel and train or arrange for their training, prepare payrolls and personnel forms, pay wages and provide Worker’s Compensation Insurance for hired personnel; are responsible for interior maintenance painting of school building; perform related work." Source: http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter ... -janitor-/

It's not the dude who mops the floor.

Also, the median household income for NYC is 50k. Source: Google.

nice job description of janitor you found there.

Okay, then what do you call the people this "janitor" is supervising? Re: bolded. I also don't think a "janitor" is one who hires appropriate personnel and prepares payrolls.

i would call them less experienced janitors and i guess a couple years away from "custodial engineers" making 150k with benefits.

[xspider]

Albeit a 0L. I still do not understand the whole big law hate. Doesn't every job that involves a form of business require sacrifice of personal relationships at times(or most of the time) if one wants the big paycheck? The debt is not really a issue with big law in my opinion because the law firm has no power and cares nothing about law school cost, so they likely do not feel the need to increase salaries with cost of attendance.

Back to other high paying professions, it seems like most people complain because of the toxic people, even if the people are toxic, does anyone really expect to be billed at 200+ a hour with fortune 500 companies writing massive checks to entail a "lax" environment or job? If I were spending thousands of dollars on legal fees as a financial institution, you are darn right I am going to be on someone's tail about documents being sent and setting outrageous expectations. You ask why? Because someone is probably on my tail or my clients that pay my exorbitant salary are on my tail demanding results.

I think every field that is driven from sales of services will provide a rough environment, but it really seems like people almost seem to expect because they worked hard academically their whole life, they deserve the most fulfilling, non-pressured, highest paying job with max stability. Which is crazy.

Did you read anything in this thread? You are completely minimizing and misinterpreting everything actual biglaw lawyers posted.

I did, and overall, I don't think big law people have a job that is more or less demanding than most high stake positions. Just an opinion.

[xspider]

Albeit a 0L. I still do not understand the whole big law hate. Doesn't every job that involves a form of business require sacrifice of personal relationships at times(or most of the time) if one wants the big paycheck? The debt is not really a issue with big law in my opinion because the law firm has no power and cares nothing about law school cost, so they likely do not feel the need to increase salaries with cost of attendance.

Back to other high paying professions, it seems like most people complain because of the toxic people, even if the people are toxic, does anyone really expect to be billed at 200+ a hour with fortune 500 companies writing massive checks to entail a "lax" environment or job? If I were spending thousands of dollars on legal fees as a financial institution, you are darn right I am going to be on someone's tail about documents being sent and setting outrageous expectations. You ask why? Because someone is probably on my tail or my clients that pay my exorbitant salary are on my tail demanding results.

I think every field that is driven from sales of services will provide a rough environment, but it really seems like people almost seem to expect because they worked hard academically their whole life, they deserve the most fulfilling, non-pressured, highest paying job with max stability. Which is crazy.

Did you read anything in this thread? You are completely minimizing and misinterpreting everything actual biglaw lawyers posted.

of course he didnt read the thread. why would a 0L read and soak up this very valuable knowledge when hes watched law and order and suits.

I actually don't watch TV very often. And I have read this helpful and priceless forum. It just seems nobody is allowed to say anything positive about big law. Although everyone seems to admit one's experience is mostly determined by their group as oppose to the actual practice.