Northwestern 1L/2L/3L/Grads Taking Questions and Challenges Forum

[chadwick218]

Those books are fear mongering. The biggest problem with 1L is stress. "You've got a third of million dollars riding on this shit, don't fuck!" Second, like someone else mentioned, it's curved. This isn't calculus where you are battle the objective correctness of your answer. You are battling to write a subjectively better answer than all your classsmates, who are just as smart, educated, and hardworking as you are. Third, you don't really know what will work for you.

Since law exams are 100% analysis and application based, knowing the material isn't really worth much. Not knowing it fucks you hard, but everyone knows it.

Well, at least I did one thing right 1L year!

[chadwick218]

Thoughts on these classes/professors?

Law & Social Change with Len
Employment Law with Provenzano (I know Icculus really likes her, but more thoughts would be appreciated too!)
First Amendment with DeSanto
Legislation with Kitrosser

1) Law & Social Change - Great class, but only if uncurved. In the past, Len has allowed exam/paper option.
2) Employment Law - Provenzano is pretty dynamite. I had her for CLR back in 2009/2010. I would anticipate that the class will have a lot of busy work. I would take, but only if you are really interested in employment law.
3) First Amendment - I didn't take 1A with DeSanto, but I took another class with him. Possibly the best professor that I had while at Northwestern.
4) Legislation - I don't know anything about this class/professor. Relevance?

[chadwick218]

Is there a reason to take BA over corporations?

The prof and it's a semester rather than quarter (so more credits). For actual learning the extra stuff probably doesn't matter all that much (BA covers LLCs/partnerships/etc in addition to corps). But as a counterpoint even corps isn't all that useful.

The prof is NOT a reason to take BA over corp.

I highly recommend going the corp route. Not a lot of work. Uncurved. Easy test. And you get done a before finals/have more time to prep for your other finals.

Yeah its only 2.5 credits and you might not "learn" as much...but Im in M and A now with Lutz and don't think I'm at any disadvantage.

Took Corps in 2010. It was taught by two random professors. They graded on a made-up kellogg/law school curve. I seemed to remember that 50% of the class got A's, 40% got B's, and 10% got C's.

[Big Dog]

This isn't calculus where you are battle the objective correctness of your answer. You are battling to write a subjectively better answer than all your classsmates, who are just as smart, educated, and hardworking as you are.

Perhaps calculus is more forgiving in high school, but that course is definitely curved in college. (Think of all the premed gunners who get weeded out.) Even if a prof has a 90/80/70 grading scale, the fact is that no math prof will write a test such that more than xx % earn a 90 average over the course of the term. (The same is true in the sciences.)

[Flips88]

2) Employment Law - Provenzano is pretty dynamite. I had her for CLR back in 2009/2010. I would anticipate that the class will have a lot of busy work. I would take, but only if you are really interested in employment law.
?

Bolded is on point for employment discrim at least. And she's expect a lot of class participation.

Also re: first amendment, it is 95% guaranteed to be curved.

[rinkrat19]

This isn't calculus where you are battle the objective correctness of your answer. You are battling to write a subjectively better answer than all your classsmates, who are just as smart, educated, and hardworking as you are.

Perhaps calculus is more forgiving in high school, but that course is definitely curved in college. (Think of all the premed gunners who get weeded out.) Even if a prof has a 90/80/70 grading scale, the fact is that no math prof will write a test such that more than xx % earn a 90 average over the course of the term. (The same is true in the sciences.)

None of my classes were truly curved in college. The profs would shift the grade scale A-F according to the range of where people scored, but that's not a curve. They were NOT required to give a certain number of certain grades, or to force the median to a certain grade.

[09042014]

Those books are fear mongering. The biggest problem with 1L is stress. "You've got a third of million dollars riding on this shit, don't fuck!" Second, like someone else mentioned, it's curved. This isn't calculus where you are battle the objective correctness of your answer. You are battling to write a subjectively better answer than all your classsmates, who are just as smart, educated, and hardworking as you are. Third, you don't really know what will work for you.

Since law exams are 100% analysis and application based, knowing the material isn't really worth much. Not knowing it fucks you hard, but everyone knows it.

Well, at least I did one thing right 1L year!

Gotta keep those legs fresh kid

[dolfan0516]

The prof is NOT a reason to take BA over corp.

I highly recommend going the corp route. Not a lot of work. Uncurved. Easy test. And you get done a before finals/have more time to prep for your other finals.

Yeah its only 2.5 credits and you might not "learn" as much...but Im in M and A now with Lutz and don't think I'm at any disadvantage.

Why would the prof not be a reason? People are asking about which classes to take and a lot of it hinges on who is teaching the class.

I wasn't saying that the person teaching one was necessarily better than the other, but I do think you should consider who teaches the class before deciding which to take. IIRC, last spring the corps prof was a new prof. Deciding between an untested prof and someone who is well liked (e.g. Reed) is an easy call, imo.

I'm not sure how the curve works for corps but unless it's the same prof teaching it I don't think you can categorically say that it is not a lot of work and the test is easy (though being done earlier is definitely a factor).

Reed isnt teaching BA, it's Eigen or Litvak.

[splitmuch]

The prof is NOT a reason to take BA over corp.

I highly recommend going the corp route. Not a lot of work. Uncurved. Easy test. And you get done a before finals/have more time to prep for your other finals.

Yeah its only 2.5 credits and you might not "learn" as much...but Im in M and A now with Lutz and don't think I'm at any disadvantage.

Why would the prof not be a reason? People are asking about which classes to take and a lot of it hinges on who is teaching the class.

I wasn't saying that the person teaching one was necessarily better than the other, but I do think you should consider who teaches the class before deciding which to take. IIRC, last spring the corps prof was a new prof. Deciding between an untested prof and someone who is well liked (e.g. Reed) is an easy call, imo.

I'm not sure how the curve works for corps but unless it's the same prof teaching it I don't think you can categorically say that it is not a lot of work and the test is easy (though being done earlier is definitely a factor).

Reed isnt teaching BA, it's Eigen or Litvak.

No McDonnel?

[09042014]

Eigen is a decently easy grader. Bro doesn't wanna fuck with anyone's career prospects.

[bk1]

Reed isnt teaching BA, it's Eigen or Litvak.

I know. It was an example. You also don't have to take BA as a 1L.

[Icculus]

Reed isnt teaching BA, it's Eigen or Litvak.

I know. It was an example. You also don't have to take BA as a 1L.

I don't know why but this cracked me up. I should probably be getting more sleep.

As for the busy work comment about Provenzano I'm not sure what you're referring to other than maybe the casebook problems that take maybe an hour to do? I mean my property prof. last year would assign 80 pages of reading a night and cover half, the problem was you never knew what it was going to be, I think that's way worse.

[Eugenie Danglars]

Reed isnt teaching BA, it's Eigen or Litvak.

I know. It was an example. You also don't have to take BA as a 1L.

I don't know why but this cracked me up. I should probably be getting more sleep.

As for the busy work comment about Provenzano I'm not sure what you're referring to other than maybe the casebook problems that take maybe an hour to do? I mean my property prof. last year would assign 80 pages of reading a night and cover half, the problem was you never knew what it was going to be, I think that's way worse.

Seconded. She's an amazing prof, the material is relevant to daily life (as much as law school ever is), and the "busy work" is semi-weekly casebook problems that are short and GREAT exam practice.

[bdubs]

Millionth supporter of Provenzano on here. I don't know anything about any of the employment law related classes, but her effective legal writing course was excellent. I think ELW was the most practical and rewarding course I have taken (straight up Civ Pro is a close second for litigation).

While I agree that BA is not a transactional law course, it covers a lot of critical precedent that determines the work that transactional lawyers do (advising on Revlon Moment issues, negotiating "reasonable" break up fees, identifying potential shareholder suit bases, etc...). I've never actually done transactional work but all of the attorneys I spoke with who did mentioned these issues.

[crumpetsandtea]

Thank you SO MUCH to everyone who commented about classes and professors!! This is all SUPER SUPER helpful, so every single bit of advice is much appreciated.

Does anyone have an opinion on Jurisprudence with D'amato? Also, does anyone know if "Comparative Law: China" with Lepp counts as the "Comparative Law" that 1Ls are allowed to take?

Thanks again!!

[bdubs]

Thank you SO MUCH to everyone who commented about classes and professors!! This is all SUPER SUPER helpful, so every single bit of advice is much appreciated.

Does anyone have an opinion on Jurisprudence with D'amato? Also, does anyone know if "Comparative Law: China" with Lepp counts as the "Comparative Law" that 1Ls are allowed to take?

Thanks again!!

I've heard D'Amato is a very difficult professor to deal with because he is quite old and hard of hearing. Despite his issues he tries to have an interactive class and it can be pretty frustrating. Dunno anything about the comparative law limit for 1Ls.

[R1chardParker]

Business Associations and Tax for a Spring 1L- any reason I should not take this combo if I have prior education related to both classes? I guess I am a bit worried that it is a heavy combo that will be time intensive compared to some of the other offerings. Recommendations for tax professors? Thanks!

[bdubs]

Business Associations and Tax for a Spring 1L- any reason I should not take this combo if I have prior education related to both classes? I guess I am a bit worried that it is a heavy combo that will be time intensive compared to some of the other offerings. Recommendations for tax professors? Thanks!

Doable. Brennan is supposed to be the best tax professor by a mile.

[Holly Golightly]

Thoughts on these classes/professors?

Law & Social Change with Len
Employment Law with Provenzano (I know Icculus really likes her, but more thoughts would be appreciated too!)
First Amendment with DeSanto
Legislation with Kitrosser

First Amendment is the greatest class EVER and DeSanto is amazing. That said, I imagine the curve is generally fairly tight because DeSanto is such a freaking awesome prof. But I highly, highly recommend it.

[VulcanVulcanVulcan]

Has anyone done M&A without taking BA/Corporations? I am thinking of doing it as I'm doing M&A this summer, but I don't want to get killed by earnest corporate law types.

[Georgia Avenue]

Business Associations and Tax for a Spring 1L- any reason I should not take this combo if I have prior education related to both classes? I guess I am a bit worried that it is a heavy combo that will be time intensive compared to some of the other offerings. Recommendations for tax professors? Thanks!

If you're worried about fitting it into your overall workload, Litvak doesn't cold call in BA (and does a great job explaining the material) so if you ever need to put something to the back burner for a night, that's an easy one.

[09042014]

DF's grade inflation picks of the Spring Semester:

Patent Law - hear me out, it's boring as shit, but I literally didn't know anything a day before the exam, took it without sleeping more than 3 hours in the past 50 hours (all 3 were had in the Xbox room); didn't finish 1/4 of the exam, and got a shockingly decent grade.

International Business Transactions - Over by Spring Break, group paper (20 page combined), and a presentation. By far the easiest course at NU law, and he gives 8/10 groups A's, 1 group A- and 1 group A+.

Anyone got any hot leads?

[crumpetsandtea]

DF's grade inflation picks of the Spring Semester:

Patent Law - hear me out, it's boring as shit, but I literally didn't know anything a day before the exam, took it without sleeping more than 3 hours in the past 50 hours (all 3 were had in the Xbox room); didn't finish 1/4 of the exam, and got a shockingly decent grade.

International Business Transactions - Over by Spring Break, group paper (20 page combined), and a presentation. By far the easiest course at NU law, and he gives 8/10 groups A's, 1 group A- and 1 group A+.

Anyone got any hot leads?

I wish these were classes that I could actually take I need moar GPA-boosting classes!

eta: also btw i went home and didn't do anything except watch bad TV until 2:30 am, i suck at being a good student

[chadwick218]

Business Associations and Tax for a Spring 1L- any reason I should not take this combo if I have prior education related to both classes? I guess I am a bit worried that it is a heavy combo that will be time intensive compared to some of the other offerings. Recommendations for tax professors? Thanks!

Doable. Brennan is supposed to be the best tax professor by a mile.

I took both my 1L year. Brennan is fantastic, but the class will be curved. Who else is teaching tax? Do NOT take Crane. While she brilliant, she was without question the most unprepared and unorganized professor that I have ever had. Also, do not take Cameron for anything. I lucked out in Property Tax class, but that was only because the class was full of Tax LLMs.

[chadwick218]

International Business Transactions - Over by Spring Break, group paper (20 page combined), and a presentation. By far the easiest course at NU law, and he gives 8/10 groups A's, 1 group A- and 1 group A+.

Seconded. I took both Project Finance and Int'l Business Trannies with Knuepfer. The classes were very easy, I learned a fair amount, and he is fun to listen to in class.