Harvard Student(s) Answering Your Questions Forum

[wert3813]

Anyonave a thought on which should be preffed first between klarman and negotiation workshop during Jan term? And the likelihood of getting both?

I'm a huge fan of the Negotiation Workshop. One of the best things to take, hands down, at HLS. I've heard Klarman is the best for Con Law too though...imo, I would take Klarman and shoot for Negotiation Workshop as my #1 in a WINTER term. I have friends who took it in the spring while I took it in the winter. Winter is much better. You devote all your time to the workshop so you get to immerse yourself a bit more. No other classes to worry about so the time commitment of the workshop does not really get in the way of your other classes. Also, you get more interesting guest lecturers imo. Since we have to take things in the winter anyways, I'd highly recommend Klarman in the fall, Negotiation Workshop in the winter.

That's the plan. My question was how to rank them to get both.

[Lovely Ludwig Van]

Has anyone done or know someone who's done the Semester in DC clinic?

What was it like? Was it worth the time and cost? Difficult to get the placement you're looking for?

[DoubleChecks]

Anyonave a thought on which should be preffed first between klarman and negotiation workshop during Jan term? And the likelihood of getting both?

I'm a huge fan of the Negotiation Workshop. One of the best things to take, hands down, at HLS. I've heard Klarman is the best for Con Law too though...imo, I would take Klarman and shoot for Negotiation Workshop as my #1 in a WINTER term. I have friends who took it in the spring while I took it in the winter. Winter is much better. You devote all your time to the workshop so you get to immerse yourself a bit more. No other classes to worry about so the time commitment of the workshop does not really get in the way of your other classes. Also, you get more interesting guest lecturers imo. Since we have to take things in the winter anyways, I'd highly recommend Klarman in the fall, Negotiation Workshop in the winter.

That's the plan. My question was how to rank them to get both.

My bad, not reading all the pages fully haha. I've already forgotten how selecting classes works! You have to choose winter along with fall courses?

I'd do Negotiation Workshop 1; Klarman 2. I mean, Con Law's not even a req The only Con Law course I took was 4th/5th/6th amendments, and that was on accident (it had the words "Criminal Investigations/Police Practices" in the course title so how could I say no?). Turned out to be a pretty interesting class, mostly because of the subject matter and not because of the professor, Weinreb, who is old, mumbles and is kinda boring. But talking mostly about 4th amendment stuff? I found the material very entertaining.

[wert3813]

Anyonave a thought on which should be preffed first between klarman and negotiation workshop during Jan term? And the likelihood of getting both?

I'm a huge fan of the Negotiation Workshop. One of the best things to take, hands down, at HLS. I've heard Klarman is the best for Con Law too though...imo, I would take Klarman and shoot for Negotiation Workshop as my #1 in a WINTER term. I have friends who took it in the spring while I took it in the winter. Winter is much better. You devote all your time to the workshop so you get to immerse yourself a bit more. No other classes to worry about so the time commitment of the workshop does not really get in the way of your other classes. Also, you get more interesting guest lecturers imo. Since we have to take things in the winter anyways, I'd highly recommend Klarman in the fall, Negotiation Workshop in the winter.

That's the plan. My question was how to rank them to get both.

My bad, not reading all the pages fully haha. I've already forgotten how selecting classes works! You have to choose winter along with fall courses?

I'd do Negotiation Workshop 1; Klarman 2. I mean, Con Law's not even a req The only Con Law course I took was 4th/5th/6th amendments, and that was on accident (it had the words "Criminal Investigations/Police Practices" in the course title so how could I say no?). Turned out to be a pretty interesting class, mostly because of the subject matter and not because of the professor, Weinreb, who is old, mumbles and is kinda boring. But talking mostly about 4th amendment stuff? I found the material very entertaining.

Weinreb for crim right now. yeah... anyway thanks. Nobody here has experience getting either Klarman or NW (jan term) from two I take it? Regardless this has been helpful, thanks.

[rathgra]

Weinreb for crim right now. yeah... anyway thanks. Nobody here has experience getting either Klarman or NW (jan term) from two I take it? Regardless this has been helpful, thanks.

FWIW, there were slots in Klarman available through the fire sale this spring.
Never mind, see tomwatts' post below

Does anyone know how competitive the family law clinic is?

[tomwatts]

Weinreb for crim right now. yeah... anyway thanks. Nobody here has experience getting either Klarman or NW (jan term) from two I take it? Regardless this has been helpful, thanks.

Just in case my earlier post wasn't clear: if you preference Negotiation in Winter as your #1 and Klarman in fall as your #2, I think you're very likely to get both, though probably off the waitlist (for both classes). I'm less confident about Negotiation as #2 and Klarman as #1 — you'll get Klarman for sure, and I think you'll get Negotiation, but you might have to wait until winter elective preferencing in October before the waitlists move enough.

I think that the Klarman waitlist will move a lot. I knew someone who was 90-something on the Klarman 14th Amendment waitlist last year (when it was in the fall), and she got into the class, though possibly not until the week of class. I don't think winter term Negotiation waitlists move much, though. The problem with winter term is that the stuff that drives fall waitlists to move isn't in play in the winter. People drop fall term classes because they're trying to design a schedule — as they get into classes that conflict with ones they already had, or that drive them over credit limits, or whatever, they drop them. In winter, it's just a matter of which one class you want and can get into, so winter waitlists don't move as much. Negotiation, as a multi-section, might be different; people might (in October) preference an elective, get it, and then drop Negotiation (which they preferenced in April). So I'm not very certain.

In general, waitlists for multi-section courses move during preferencing and add/drop for every term, so you'll see a lot of movement in multi-section waitlists during fall elective preferencing (which is a week later) and during add/drop the next few weeks as people sort things out. Then everything sits for a while, but you see a fair bit more movement in August and September right before and as classes start. Then nothing happens until October, when winter and spring elective preferencing happen (consecutively), and waitlists move a bunch more. Also, waitlists for winter and spring courses tend to move more in October than they did in April/August, because that's when elective preferencing for those terms happens. So if you're, say, 10 on the waitlist for Negotiation after multi-section preferencing, you might get in during preferencing in October — which has only the disadvantage that you don't know for six months what you're going to be doing in winter term, which probably isn't a big deal.

I know all this because I actually preferenced a million classes and stayed on waitlists because I wanted to know how they moved so that I could preference better for my last year. For example, I knew I wasn't going to be able to take Fallon's spring First Amendment class, but I preferenced it #8 to see what would happen, and I got into it after initially being over 300 on the waitlist. I then dropped it and must have made somebody ridiculously happy.

FWIW, there were slots in Klarman available through the fire sale this spring.

This turns out not to mean anything, although it's not intuitive that it doesn't. The fire sale just means that add/drop period didn't resolve everything, and they need to accelerate the process. There was a fire sale slot for Klarman's Warren Court seminar in the fall, when I (after preferencing it #1) was 46 on the waitlist — having started at 48 on the waitlist. I put in a firesale offer, but because they take people based on position on the waitlist, I'm pretty sure I wasn't even close to getting in. I would've needed to be, say, 1 or 2 on the waitlist to get in off the firesale.

Does anyone know how competitive the family law clinic is?

I'm semi-sure the answer is not very. You can add Child Advocacy during add/drop, and it's mostly the same crowd as Family Law.

[MyNameIsFlynn!]

Thanks for continuing to post all this helpful info, tom. Point of clarification: What exactly is the firesale and what does it accomplish?

Also, do any of you guys have thoughts about the the health law clinic? Second hand praise/criticisms you've heard from friends also gladly accepted.

[tomwatts]

Thanks for continuing to post all this helpful info, tom. Point of clarification: What exactly is the firesale and what does it accomplish?

At the end of add/drop (at the end of the first week of class, I think), if there are still spaces in a class, the registrar includes it in an email that goes out to everyone. If you want one of those spots, you email the registrar saying that you want to add the class. Then the registrar manually goes through these emails and adds people according to their spot on the waitlist for the class.

The idea is that add/drop works slowly: you get 24 hours (or 48, depending on when) to decide whether to take a spot in a class. Thus, you might have a bunch of people who are the next set of people on the waitlist, and none of them actually want the class anymore, and it takes many days to get through them to the last person who actually does want the class. That's okay during add/drop, because you want to give students a while to figure out whether they really want or don't want the class. But during the firesale, the point is that you've had time and now you just say in or out. Then they do the rest of the process all at once.

A lot of classes end up in the firesale, but this doesn't really tell you anything about the class, because it could be (as with Warren Court last semester) that there's maybe one or two spots left, and the top one or two people on the waitlist will take those spots.

[despina]

Nominating tomwatts' last couple posts for inclusion on the OP FAQ.

Can anyone speak to whether it's worth taking a Feldman class (1st or 14th) in a semester where I'll be otherwise busy and overwhelmed? I don't think I'll be able to give the class the time it really deserves to keep up with him (and survive his cold calls), but I'm tempted to do it anyway, absorb what I can, and accept the subsequent confusion / humiliation.

[liammial]

.

[permapress]

anybody have any thoughts about the predatory lending or mediation clinic?

[wert3813]

Hello guys/gals, thanks for taking my questions. I was admitted tonight (woohoo), so sorry if these are repeats...didn't want to scroll through 150 pages.

How much fun is Harvard? Fun? I dunno I have fun but if you dropped me off in a corn field in Iowa with 1500 people of a similar age I'd manage to have fun I mean the entire experience. In class, out of class, on weeknights, on weekend nights. What fun things do people do? Bars. Sports. Food. House Parties. Discuss different theories of executive removal powers. We do what you think we do Is the food good? Sure. Are there fun bars? Sure. Not a million bars within walking distance but enough How are the ladies? Awesome. I have high standards for both personality and looks and I think some of the ladies here are amazing people

How much work is Harvard? A lot? Some? Not sure what I could say here that would not be so vague as to be meaningless What does the average day of class look like? 1L? Two classes one in the morning one in the afternoon one 2 hours and one an 1:20 Is work enjoyable/tedious? Some of it is definitely tedious.

What are the professors like? Are they approachable? Any group of 100 people are going to vary widely. On the whole I have found professor to be approachable, accessible, and good people.

Does anyone here have an interest in academia? Does anyone have Harvard Law School have an interest in academia? Gonna let you guess on this one. How is it at Harvard for a legal scholar-wanabe? Good? I mean more than enough options to do what sort of research you want

What's the living situation? Refusing to answer this one there are pages upon pages in this thread on housing

What do you like least about Harvard? highly theoretical inane discussion that have very little applicability.

So you may not want to scroll through 150 pages (although I did when I got in and was better for it) but you can search just in this thread using the search feature above. I answered your questions cause boredom/didn't want to be an asshole but I doubt to many people are gonna delve into such vague questions.

[ph14]

Hello guys/gals, thanks for taking my questions. I was admitted tonight (woohoo), so sorry if these are repeats...didn't want to scroll through 150 pages.

How much fun is Harvard? I mean the entire experience. In class, out of class, on weeknights, on weekend nights. What fun things do people do? Is the food good? Are there fun bars? How are the ladies?

How much work is Harvard? What does the average day of class look like? Is work enjoyable/tedious?

What are the professors like? Are they approachable?

Does anyone here have an interest in academia? How is it at Harvard for a legal scholar-wanabe?

What's the living situation?

What do you like least about Harvard?

How do people know they want to be a legal academic if they have never attended a single law school class or read a single law review article?

[liammial]

.

[ph14]

So you may not want to scroll through 150 pages (although I did when I got in and was better for it) but you can search just in this thread using the search feature above. I answered your questions cause boredom/didn't want to be an asshole but I doubt to many people are gonna delve into such vague questions.

Two Harvard 1L's already PM'd me lengthy responses, lol.

How do people know they want to be a legal academic if they have never attended a single law school class or read a single law review article?

I have done both of those things. Also, it's far from a definite, just something I could see myself doing.

Fair enough.

[ph14]

Hello guys/gals, thanks for taking my questions. I was admitted tonight (woohoo), so sorry if these are repeats...didn't want to scroll through 150 pages. Congrats on your admittance.

How much fun is Harvard? HLS is what you make of it. You can make it into a really fun experience, or you can have a less fun experience. I think that's the general response to all of your questions: HLS is what you make of it. It's largely in your control what you get out of it. I mean the entire experience. In class, out of class, on weeknights, on weekend nights. What fun things do people do? Same things people do who are in our age group and not in law school, same things that undergrads do, plus other things such as law-related clubs and organizations. Is the food good? On-campus food is okay and a little bit pricey. But you don't have many options if you want to eat on campus. Are there fun bars? Yes. Again, it's what you make of it. You're right next door to a major city. There's going to be whatever you want if you seek it out. How are the ladies? There are some great ladies here but many are already in relationships. Still plenty of singles out there though.

How much work is Harvard? However much work you want to put into it. You could study really hard and try and get top grades or just try and do the minimum to pass. It could vary widely. What does the average day of class look like? My 1L schedule was something like 4 substantive classes and LRW, with 2 substantive classes on any given day. Is work enjoyable/tedious? This is a personal question. Did you enjoy attending the law school class and reading the law review article(s) you mentioned reading earlier? If so, then you will find the work enjoyable.

What are the professors like? Are they approachable? Any group of 100 people are going to vary widely. On the whole I have found professor to be approachable, accessible, and good people.

Does anyone here have an interest in academia? Does anyone have Harvard Law School have an interest in academia? Gonna let you guess on this one. How is it at Harvard for a legal scholar-wanabe? Good? I mean more than enough options to do what sort of research you want

What's the living situation? Refusing to answer this one there are pages upon pages in this thread on housing

What do you like least about Harvard? highly theoretical inane discussion that have very little applicability.

Stealing your formatting.

[politics89]

So you may not want to scroll through 150 pages (although I did when I got in and was better for it) but you can search just in this thread using the search feature above. I answered your questions cause boredom/didn't want to be an asshole but I doubt to many people are gonna delve into such vague questions.

Two Harvard 1L's already PM'd me lengthy responses, lol.

How do people know they want to be a legal academic if they have never attended a single law school class or read a single law review article?

I have done both of those things. Also, it's far from a definite, just something I could see myself doing.

Does anyone here have an interest in academia? Does anyone have Harvard Law School have an interest in academia? Gonna let you guess on this one. How is it at Harvard for a legal scholar-wanabe? Good? I mean more than enough options to do what sort of research you want

What's the living situation? Refusing to answer this one there are pages upon pages in this thread on housing

What do you like least about Harvard? highly theoretical inane discussion that have very little applicability.

Yeah, really douchey response, thanks. Would have preferred you didn't respond at all. Obviously the 'anyone' in "Does anyone here have an interest in academia?" referred to people in this thread, so that they could answer my question.

Actually it was pretty nice of him to take the time to answer all of your questions after you announced you couldn't be bothered to look through already provided answers in this thread

[Pneumonia]

Actually it was pretty nice of him to take the time to answer all of your questions after you announced you couldn't be bothered to look through already provided answers in this thread

For real, talk about a first impression.

[TripTrip]

How do people know they want to be a legal academic if they have never attended a single law school class or read a single law review article?

I have done both of those things. Also, it's far from a definite, just something I could see myself doing.

If those are our two measures of legal academia, you're closer than I am.

[wert3813]

So you may not want to scroll through 150 pages (although I did when I got in and was better for it) but you can search just in this thread using the search feature above. I answered your questions cause boredom/didn't want to be an asshole but I doubt to many people are gonna delve into such vague questions.

Two Harvard 1L's already PM'd me lengthy responses, lol.

How do people know they want to be a legal academic if they have never attended a single law school class or read a single law review article?

I have done both of those things. Also, it's far from a definite, just something I could see myself doing.

Does anyone here have an interest in academia? Does anyone have Harvard Law School have an interest in academia? Gonna let you guess on this one. How is it at Harvard for a legal scholar-wanabe? Good? I mean more than enough options to do what sort of research you want

What's the living situation? Refusing to answer this one there are pages upon pages in this thread on housing

What do you like least about Harvard? highly theoretical inane discussion that have very little applicability.

Yeah, really douchey response, thanks. Would have preferred you didn't respond at all. Obviously the 'anyone' in "Does anyone here have an interest in academia?" referred to people in this thread, so that they could answer my question.

Actually it was pretty nice of him to take the time to answer all of your questions after you announced you couldn't be bothered to look through already provided answers in this thread

Yeah what? Like are you serious? That was pretty damn helpful for how pretentious you were.

[thestatusguo]

California market. How do HLS students fare?

[delusional]

California market. How do HLS students fare?

Complete speculation: Better than other schools' students.

[tomwatts]

Hi guys!

Just got my JS2 today and I thought I'd ask if anyone had any input; I'm in at the joint JD/MPP program at HLS/HKS but I'm really really hoping to get into the California (preferably northern/Bay Area) legal market; unfortunately, however, save for a few special people out in the area and summers/etc. spent in the area, I don't really have too many ties there. If I were to attend HLS (or HLS/HKS for the joint), how plausible would it be to try to get onto that coast? I'd bid for California firms and whatever else I'd need to do but how hard/unlikely would it be to land there? Is there anything special that I'd have to do?

JD/MPP from SF here. It depends a lot on what you're trying to do. Most JD/MPPs are interested in going into public interest, not a firm, so obviously the market looks different depending on your interests (and your practice area interests within a firm). For firms, in general, California is over-saturated and therefore hard to break into, but HLS does as well as any school. Plenty of firms come to EIP (what other schools call OCI — it's the thing that gets you a traditional firm job), and I ended up with a couple of Bay Area offers even though I split my bids between SF and NY due to various geographical uncertainties, so it's definitely doable. Good grades will help a lot in a difficult market, and a coherent story as to why you want to go there will help even if you don't have strong ties.

Also, the Bay Area hosts a number of firms that aren't traditional biglaw that might be of interest to a JD/MPP, ranging from political law firms (e.g. Nielsen Merksamer) to plaintiffs firms (e.g. Altshuler Berzon, Lieff Cabraser — see more discussion here). And if you think that public interest might be more your thing, there's plenty of that in the Bay Area, too, but the options vary a lot more depending on what exactly you're interested in.

I can answer more specifically by PM, if you'd like, or here in the thread if you have more specific questions. Also, the JD/MPP program has a lot of Californians right now, so I'd be happy to connect you with more people if you have specific interests that I can't answer about. Also, if you are coming to the April ASW, the JD/MPPs will be tabling (and I think at least a couple of us will be representing our various journals at the night out in Boston), so we can chat more there if you'd like.

(Also, there are more general discussions of the SF/SV scene here and in threads linked therein.)

[liammial]

.

[DoubleChecks]

How was that pretentious? Why sift through 145 pages of information (even with the search feature) when I could get an up-to-date response to all of my questions with no work? I appreciate all replies, but yours were about as vague as my questions and frankly pretty rude.

Liammial, your posts have all actually been somewhat rude, but mostly just immature. Not immature in a "I find the humor of a 12 yr old funny" way, but in a "I am still rather selfish and inconsiderate of others and only view things from my own perspective" sort of way. It's sad because I think it's a terrible foot to start off on at a law school you could potentially be going to, albeit most of this is anonymous (though some of us are more hidden than others).

Your initial post already rubbed most people (including myself) the wrong way due to both how vague it was (showing you haven't put the time or effort into thinking about the questions in a constructive way) and how you flippantly stated you can't be bothered to read through 145+ pages for your answers (showing you also don't feel like inconveniencing yourself, but seem fine inconveniencing other posters). Now there's nothing wrong with not wanting to read through 145+ pages for your answers -- I know I certainly wouldn't do it and would re-ask my questions here -- but you should realize then that other people are doing you a favor; taking their time out to try to essentially help save YOU time that you can't be bothered to spend yourself. Coming in then with poorly thought out questions, but more importantly, rude responses to those who did try to answer your questions, shows a level of immaturity and lack of acknowledgement that would definitely warrant a ding from me if I were to ever interview you for my firm. You wouldn't get the responses you are getting (mine included) had you just been more grateful and conciliatory to those that tried to help you, even if your original post remained the same.

Now before you end up trolling back hard or the like, I hope you really take time to consider the reactions you are getting and the reasons behind it. I've tried to lay them out from my perspective, though of course I could be wrong. Generally speaking though, when virtually everyone in a room disagrees with you, it can only mean two things: 1) you're wrong or 2) you're smarter than everyone else in the room and they're wrong. Seeing as how this has to do more with maturity and social skills, #2 is probably inapplicable, but even if it could apply to this situation, consider that you're also in a room with some pretty smart people