New York Law School (NYLS) 1L Forum

[Coolgrnmen]

I was giving you the benefit of the doubt this whole time, but the above just proves you are a flame.

[sanjola]

I was giving you the benefit of the doubt this whole time, but the above just proves you are a flame.

What's with the eye roll? A MENSA candidate should be smart enough to perform better on the LSAT and know better than to dive into grueling debt at NYLS.

[Coolgrnmen]

I was giving you the benefit of the doubt this whole time, but the above just proves you are a flame.

What's with the eye roll? A MENSA candidate should be smart enough to perform better on the LSAT and know better than to dive into grueling debt at NYLS.

Not necessarily. I tested well in timed practices (up to 168, 169 consistently). I choked on test day, completely blanked on an entire section. Took the LSAT again and the section I previously blanked on became my best section, and I blanked on what was previously my best section. So sad...I didn't want to wait around and retake it.
Regarding the debt, I know how to manage money, I assessed the risks, and I knew what decision I was making.

[lawschoollll]

Regarding the debt, I know how to manage money, I assessed the risks, and I knew what decision I was making.

lol

[Coolgrnmen]

Regarding the debt, I know how to manage money, I assessed the risks, and I knew what decision I was making.

lol

What's the joke?

[zanda]

Regarding the debt, I know how to manage money, I assessed the risks, and I knew what decision I was making.

lol

What's the joke?

Word. In light of coolgrnmen's previous posts in which he asserted public interest jobs are a fallback for any NYLS student unable to be in the 2% or so who get biglaw and accused me of lying when I spoke of NYU classmates who came in to law school wanting PI (as opposed to PI being a fallback), are at or above median, and don't have jobs, the decision to attend NYLS at sticker sounds rational.

[Helmholtz]

Regarding the debt, I know how to manage money, I assessed the risks, and I knew what decision I was making.

lol

What's the joke?

Word. In light of coolgrnmen's previous posts in which he asserted public interest jobs are a fallback for any NYLS student unable to be in the 2% or so who get biglaw and accused me of lying when I spoke of NYU classmates who came in to law school wanting PI (as opposed to PI being a fallback), are at or above median, and don't have jobs, the decision to attend NYLS at sticker sounds rational.

Apparently, your friends at NYU are not nearly as professionally astute as all the Mensa members at NYLS. Maybe your comrades should hop on the ACE line down to NYLS and learn from some of the masters (hint: they're the ones begging for change right outside of the Canal Street subway stop).

[Coolgrnmen]

Questions for a 1L?

[romothesavior]

Word. In light of coolgrnmen's previous posts in which he asserted public interest jobs are a fallback for any NYLS student unable to be in the 2% or so who get biglaw and accused me of lying when I spoke of NYU classmates who came in to law school wanting PI (as opposed to PI being a fallback), are at or above median, and don't have jobs, the decision to attend NYLS at sticker sounds rational.

[MrAnon]

How long have you worked for NYLS?

[Coolgrnmen]

How long have you worked for NYLS?

I've worked on my studies at NYLS since August...

[Mlive6]

Everywhere you go on this forum, NYLS is shunned, loked down upon, and disregarded as a school.
I'm currently a 1L at NYLS and I'm happy to tell you what really goes on on our campus.

First, I'm in the top 10% there and I have a Federal Judge internship already lined up for the summer. Additionally, I am applying for transfer.

If I am not accepted to where I'm applying for transfer, I won't be sad. NYLS has been great to me and I really enjoy the school. The faculty are knowledgeable and (some) friendly. Many of the faculty are distinguished and they testify at Congress ranging from the financial situation of this country (Prof. Houman Shadab) to debates about the death penalty (Prof. Robert Blecker).
There are many other faculty that I haven't experienced, these professors are only from my section. (5 sections, 4 full time and 1 part time).

The school was established a long time ago, but its facilities are new. They finished construction of the new building and this is where our classes are held. The three old buildings have been converted into two newly renovated buildings that connect the entire school. The school occupies nearly an entire block in TriBeCa.

The library is new, and it is underground. It doesn't get much quieter than that for studying. No honking and the walls are insulated so you don't hear the trains going by.

Of course, no matter how much I like the school, I must be objective and give you a fair look at the negatives too.

The school is Tier 3 and is competing in the same job market as NYU, Columbia, Fordham, and even Brooklyn Law. All ranked higher than NYLS and all with not necessarily "more" options at OCI, but definitely more "better" options.

The school is actively trying to raise its rank. They have a few staff dedicated to this task. At least NYLS knows where they are ranked and are trying to fix it.

When you talk to fellow students, they are generally happy with where they are at and enjoy it. There are a few negative nancys in our classes and most of their negativity comes from what they've read here.

The atmosphere is not ultra-competitive but our 1L class was the most competitive any faculty had seen in a while. Additionally, our 1L class had the highest average GPA and highest average LSAT score in the school's history. Factor? Possibly...
For a research assignment, a single student actually ripped pages out of a book. First time, according to the Law Librarian, that had ever happened there.

The alumni network is huge! I mean HUGE! But our elites include the likes of Judy Scheindlin (Which I got to meet and get a photo with) - Judge Judy for those of you not knowing. No presidents, no supreme court justices (well, one from the early 1900's I think...).

Getting a biglaw job out of NYLS is difficult, but doable. Most of biglaw goes to Fordham and up.

Finding employment (for me) wasn't difficult and I'm already talking with some big law firms in NYC. Be on top of things and you will have an advantage.

NYLS's curve has been fixed from where it was in the early 2000's...it was the only B- curve in NYC making it more difficult for NYLS alum to compete because their GPA was marred. Now, we are at an equivalent curve with the rest of NYC.

We have gunners and suckers just like any law school and just like any law school they get made fun of. We also have some very smart people. However, like me, they want to transfer out because of the stigma of the school. Guess what, this only adds to the stigma. NYLS's students are literally holding NYLS back by leaving the school.

In sum, if you want to work in NYC, NYLS is not a bad decision. If you can go to T14, or any other NYC school (except HOFSTRA/ CUNY), then you should probably choose the other.

Don't be disappointed if NYLS is where you go...great school and I'm looking forward to seeing them progress in the future.


If you have any specific questions, I'd love to answer them for you.

Coolgrnmen: Thank you for the objective opinion. I have been accepted into NYLS for the Fall of 2011 and thought Admitted Students Day was teriffic. The faculty and students I met, in conjunction with the outstanding building in a prime location truly swayed me. Although I am waiting to hear back from St. John's, Brooklyn, Hofstra and Fordham, I question whether "name" or "rankings" are really all that significant outside of the T14. What are your thoughts? I feel I may perform better in a gorgeous, high-tech facility in lower Manhattan as opposed to crumbling-down Hofstra or dingy Brooklyn. I am not thrilled with the location of St. John's. Also, I get the vibe that *some* TLSers are number-obsessed computer geeks with no hint of personality or networking skills (some are on here posting all day, LOL). I expect that a good GPA and great character are sufficient to achieve success after NYLS. Aside from this website, I feel very good about the opportunities that can be had at "4th tier" NYLS.

In sum, do you feel you are at a disadvantage competing for jobs as a NYLS student when faced against students from Brooklyn/Hofstra/St. John's?

[romothesavior]

Also, I get the vibe that *some* TLSers are number-obsessed computer geeks with no hint of personality or networking skills (some are on here posting all day, LOL).

I'm sure some TLSers suck in real life, but most TLSers are just acutely aware of how horrible the job market is for current students and recent grads. As such, we tell clueless 0Ls like yourself not to go to atrocious, overpriced, deceptive, joke schools like NYLS. But why consider that possibility when you can just make wild assumptions about us and disregard everything we say? Much easier to just brand us as geeks, or elitists, or people with no networking skills than it is to actually sit back and think, "Hey, maybe I should listen to these guys since they are going through the whole process now and might know stuff that I don't."

Also, you're right... I post a ton on here. I probably spend way too much time on this site. But if you find a better networker than me anywhere, please let me know.

[Mlive6]

Also, I get the vibe that *some* TLSers are number-obsessed computer geeks with no hint of personality or networking skills (some are on here posting all day, LOL).

I'm sure some TLSers suck in real life, but most TLSers are just acutely aware of how horrible the job market is for current students and recent grads. As such, we tell clueless 0Ls like yourself not to go to atrocious, overpriced, deceptive, joke schools like NYLS. But why consider that possibility when you can just make wild assumptions about us and disregard everything we say? Much easier to just brand us as geeks, or elitists, or people with no networking skills than it is to actually sit back and think, "Hey, maybe I should listen to these guys since they are going through the whole process now and might know stuff that I don't."

Also, you're right... I post a ton on here. I probably spend way too much time on this site. But if you find a better networker than me anywhere, please let me know.

First, please take note that I included the preemptive clause
"*some*" because in no way do I wish to imply or actually believe that ALL TSLers are not worth hearing out. Kudos to your networking, message boarding and law student skills, whatever your caliber may be. As for wild assumptions, your "hey maybe I should listen" advice may be suited towards yourself. I am not sure where the term "elitist" came into play - that is a bit leading, no? And the fact that you responded to this post in 5 minutes gives 0Ls such as myself ample reason to doubt the normalcy of *some* TSLers. Maybe job opportunities wouldn't look so dismal if your efforts were redirected elsewhere? That being said, I am off to sleep - got a 12 hour work day tomorrow. Looking forward to your rebuttal when I
sign back on in 5 days.... Or not.

[romothesavior]

Dude, cool story. That was the first post I made in about 6 hours. I just so happened to log in and see this thread resurrected from the dead, and your post hit a nerve with me.

You know why I post a lot on TLS? Three reasons:

1) It has helped me immensely, from the application process, to my first semester grades, to job hunting, and just providing a general place to vent and find support during law school. I honestly believe this website is the reason I am at the school I am currently attending, I believe it is the reason I did so well first semester, and I believe it could wind up being a huge part of the reason I get a job (possibly an NLJ 250 job in a preferred market of mine). So yeah, I waste a lot of time on here, but on the whole I think my time on TLS has been VERY well utilized.

2) I have a lot of friends on here and I generally enjoy the community. It is a fun place to hang out when I'm bored in class or procrastinating from studying.

3) (This one pertains to you) I do it because I truly want to help potential law students. I got a LOT out of this website as a 0L, and I want to give back. I don't have any dog in this race, and I certainly don't get any sort of real compensation by trying to help people develop a better understanding of the law school process. Most people will respond just like you do, by writing it off and being an asshole about it. But some people actually appreciate it, and take it to heart, and try to figure out just how all of this crazy law school shit works.

You wanna go to a certifiable shithole for 3 years and wind up 200k+ in debt and unemployed? Be my guest. At least you'll be able to feel good in those nice buildings for three years.

[PitchO20]

Calling shenanigans. Perfectly constructed flame.

[MP24]

You wanna go to a certifiable shithole for 3 years and wind up 200k+ in debt and unemployed? Be my guest. At least you'll be able to feel good in those nice buildings for three years.

You do realize that the school you attend isn't everything. You could be in the top of your class at a top school and graduate with 200k+ in debt and still not be employed? Or have you not been out of school long enough (or at all) to learn that fact of life yet?

[zanda]

You wanna go to a certifiable shithole for 3 years and wind up 200k+ in debt and unemployed? Be my guest. At least you'll be able to feel good in those nice buildings for three years.

You do realize that the school you attend isn't everything. You could be in the top of your class at a top school and graduate with 200k+ in debt and still not be employed? Or have you not been out of school long enough (or at all) to learn that fact of life yet?

Hooray strawman!

[Mlive6]

Dude, cool story. That was the first post I made in about 6 hours. I just so happened to log in and see this thread resurrected from the dead, and your post hit a nerve with me.

You know why I post a lot on TLS? Three reasons:

1) It has helped me immensely, from the application process, to my first semester grades, to job hunting, and just providing a general place to vent and find support during law school. I honestly believe this website is the reason I am at the school I am currently attending, I believe it is the reason I did so well first semester, and I believe it could wind up being a huge part of the reason I get a job (possibly an NLJ 250 job in a preferred market of mine). So yeah, I waste a lot of time on here, but on the whole I think my time on TLS has been VERY well utilized.

2) I have a lot of friends on here and I generally enjoy the community. It is a fun place to hang out when I'm bored in class or procrastinating from studying.

3) (This one pertains to you) I do it because I truly want to help potential law students. I got a LOT out of this website as a 0L, and I want to give back. I don't have any dog in this race, and I certainly don't get any sort of real compensation by trying to help people develop a better understanding of the law school process. Most people will respond just like you do, by writing it off and being an asshole about it. But some people actually appreciate it, and take it to heart, and try to figure out just how all of this crazy law school shit works.

You wanna go to a certifiable shithole for 3 years and wind up 200k+ in debt and unemployed? Be my guest. At least you'll be able to feel good in those nice buildings for three years.

Dude, even cooler story. And bro, I can smell your insecurities from here. I came to this message board to "try to figure out" things, and chose this thread specifically to inquire about NYLS. Really not interested in your life story here. Call NYLS whatever you want, I am in the real world, I've already beat out "T14" headcases for employment positions and internships, and I'd really just like to hear back from the person who started this thread. Seriously, get a life, and no, message boarding does not count.

And school name certainly wasn't everything

[Coolgrnmen]

@mlive6 - if you get accepted to Fordham or Brooklyn, definitely go there over NYLS. while I'm a firm believer that rankings don't gauge the caliber of student at schools necessarily, I am very aware of the fact that job opportunities are limited. While rankings should not be the deciding factor, the reasons the school is ranked where it is should be - especially employment. Fordham has much better employment and Brooklyn has better employment stats. I'm not commenting on the other schools because I don't know their stats off hand.
Also, Brooklyn has a new school being built in 2013 for law.
As shiny as our new building is, and as much as I enjoy it, I believe that that money should have gone to scholarships.
With that said, NYLS has plenty to offer; it really is a great school in that it teaches you the law and the professors are of high quality. Did u get any scholarship money? Because it is dreadfully expensive...
Either way, glad you enjoyed yourself at NYLS and just remember to look at all the circumstances when choosing a school that's right for you.

[MP24]

@mlive6 - if you get accepted to Fordham or Brooklyn, definitely go there over NYLS. while I'm a firm believer that rankings don't gauge the caliber of student at schools necessarily, I am very aware of the fact that job opportunities are limited. While rankings should not be the deciding factor, the reasons the school is ranked where it is should be - especially employment. Fordham has much better employment and Brooklyn has better employment stats. I'm not commenting on the other schools because I don't know their stats off hand.
Also, Brooklyn has a new school being built in 2013 for law.
As shiny as our new building is, and as much as I enjoy it, I believe that that money should have gone to scholarships.
With that said, NYLS has plenty to offer; it really is a great school in that it teaches you the law and the professors are of high quality. Did u get any scholarship money? Because it is dreadfully expensive...
Either way, glad you enjoyed yourself at NYLS and just remember to look at all the circumstances when choosing a school that's right for you.

I see you recommend choosing Brooklyn Law School over NYLS. I know that BLS has a better reputation and is higher ranked but would you still recommend BLS over NYLS if one had a full scholarship at NYLS and would have to pay sticker at BLS? Just curious of your opinion as this is something that I'm trying to figure out right now.

[icouldbuyu]

Dude, cool story. That was the first post I made in about 6 hours. I just so happened to log in and see this thread resurrected from the dead, and your post hit a nerve with me.

You know why I post a lot on TLS? Three reasons:

1) It has helped me immensely, from the application process, to my first semester grades, to job hunting, and just providing a general place to vent and find support during law school. I honestly believe this website is the reason I am at the school I am currently attending, I believe it is the reason I did so well first semester, and I believe it could wind up being a huge part of the reason I get a job (possibly an NLJ 250 job in a preferred market of mine). So yeah, I waste a lot of time on here, but on the whole I think my time on TLS has been VERY well utilized.

2) I have a lot of friends on here and I generally enjoy the community. It is a fun place to hang out when I'm bored in class or procrastinating from studying.

3) (This one pertains to you) I do it because I truly want to help potential law students. I got a LOT out of this website as a 0L, and I want to give back. I don't have any dog in this race, and I certainly don't get any sort of real compensation by trying to help people develop a better understanding of the law school process. Most people will respond just like you do, by writing it off and being an asshole about it. But some people actually appreciate it, and take it to heart, and try to figure out just how all of this crazy law school shit works.

You wanna go to a certifiable shithole for 3 years and wind up 200k+ in debt and unemployed? Be my guest. At least you'll be able to feel good in those nice buildings for three years.

Dude, even cooler story. And bro, I can smell your insecurities from here. I came to this message board to "try to figure out" things, and chose this thread specifically to inquire about NYLS. Really not interested in your life story here. Call NYLS whatever you want, I am in the real world, I've already beat out "T14" headcases for employment positions and internships, and I'd really just like to hear back from the person who started this thread. Seriously, get a life, and no, message boarding does not count.

And school name certainly wasn't everything

Out of curiosity, how have you already beat out "T14 headcases" for legal employment if your still a 0L.

[Coolgrnmen]

And to answer your question in full - no, I don't feel like I'm at a disadvantage against most people outside the T30...I can network, probably better than romo , and i'm near the top of my class. I also, in person, have a very likable personality that meshes well with organizations.
Do I think most of my colleagues are at a disadvantage? Probably to some extent...most everyone I know has found employment for the summer and according to Stuart Smith (director of recruiting at NYCLD) he employs about 10% of his lawyers from NYLS. That is what he said at a panel at NYLS.
You are competing with people that are just as smart as you are, getting on top is never a sure thing...keep that in mind.

Regarding the full scolly...oh boy...you just made it interesting...
I'd go to NYLS...but keep in mind NYLS's curve and their GPA Cutoff for keeping for scholarship

[Coolgrnmen]

Out of curiosity, how have you already beat out "T14 headcases" for legal employment if your still a 0L.

I'd assume prelaw internship...they exist...I had one

[MP24]

Regarding the full scolly...oh boy...you just made it interesting...
I'd go to NYLS...but keep in mind NYLS's curve and their GPA Cutoff for keeping for scholarship

Yes, the top 15% stipulation is scary. Could you add more about the curve? I had previously heard that they don't have a very strict curve...