Boalt 1Ls taking questions Forum

[worldtraveler]

Hi everyone! 1Ls and 2Ls - thanks so much for taking the time out to answer these questions.

Are any of you pursuing international law and/or involved in any of the international law extra-curriculars (G. William Miller Institute, Journal of ,etc.)? If so, what has your experience been thus far?

Also, are there a lot of research opportunities? Basically, a chance to work with profs one-on-one on developing briefs, etc.?

So excited to come and check out the campus (and enjoy the warmth . . .ahhhhh.)!!

Thanks IG. The Miller Institute supports a whole lot of the stuff going on with the Intl Law community here, but I don't know of direct work with them.

As a 1L from day 1 you can be part of the journal. That's a great experience and really helped me build skills to make CLR write on less daunting. The journal also puts on a symposium in the spring. This year, it's the topic is global justice reform efforts if you want to come on 3/31.

Other things that make the IL community good here: Prof. Caron is sitting this year as the president of the American Society of Intl Law; we've had a couple of really good new hires in the last year or two as well.

Finally, this year is the first year that we've had the IL specialty certificate available. I haven't pursued that path-- too many other things I want to take in addition to Intl offerings. But it does let you know about the depth and breadth of the offerings.

If you have specific question, fire away.

I'll add to that a bit.

We have the international human rights clinic, which lets you work on actual cases or do real policy or advocacy work. I would highly recommend it. I can't actually discuss what I'm working on but I can answer general questions about the clinic.

We also have, as Rotor said, really good new hires in the field. I'm working with one of them on an independent research project. All of them also have RAs. I will also put in a plug that Prof. Caron is a really, really nice guy even though he looks really intimidating on the website. Most big name profs aren't that accessible but he actually is.

Outside the law school, the human rights center and the war crimes studies center allow students to research with them. I don't know much about the Miller Institute.

I basically only take IL classes, so let me know if you have specific questions.

[t1chic]

wow! those sound really awesome! I'm totally stoked!!! =D

I have a few more (random) questions -

1. are there a lot of health policy-related activities/courses? I heard there was a clinic . . .?

2. does anyone know what the process is to ask about deferring for a year? or how likely they are to let one do that?


THANKS!!!

[aesis]

I'm getting mixed feedback regarding job prospects and Boalt's grading system. One 1L has told me things aren't as bad as people make it out to be based on the good news she's heard from other 2Ls. Then you have this post:

http://boaltalk.blogspot.com/2011/03/ug ... stics.html

How relevant is this for those of us pursuing careers in IP with non-science backgrounds? And will Boalt's reputation for IP (#1) give us a boost for firms seeking IP associates as opposed to say, Columbia (#6), all else being "equal" more or less (class rank, law review, etc.)?

TIA.

[pixytree]

Current students--

Boalt's clinic offerings is very limited. How do students gain hands-on experience IN the law school (as opposed to externships, internships, etc.)?

Thanks!

[worldtraveler]

Current students--

Boalt's clinic offerings is very limited. How do students gain hands-on experience IN the law school (as opposed to externships, internships, etc.)?

Thanks!

What exactly do you mean by limited? There are 4 faculty led clinics and probably 10-15 student led ones. I don't know the actual number, but there are a lot.

[pixytree]

Current students--

Boalt's clinic offerings is very limited. How do students gain hands-on experience IN the law school (as opposed to externships, internships, etc.)?

Thanks!

What exactly do you mean by limited? There are 4 faculty led clinics and probably 10-15 student led ones. I don't know the actual number, but there are a lot.

what are the student led clinics and where can I find info on them?

I say "limited" as I'm comparing it to other schools I'm looking at that have 10+ faculty led clinics. This is all I've found: http://www.law.berkeley.edu/clinics.htm

[worldtraveler]

Current students--

Boalt's clinic offerings is very limited. How do students gain hands-on experience IN the law school (as opposed to externships, internships, etc.)?

Thanks!

What exactly do you mean by limited? There are 4 faculty led clinics and probably 10-15 student led ones. I don't know the actual number, but there are a lot.

what are the student led clinics and where can I find info on them?

I say "limited" as I'm comparing it to other schools I'm looking at that have 10+ faculty led clinics. This is all I've found: http://www.law.berkeley.edu/clinics.htm

I have no idea where the info is. Maybe try searching on the site.

Really, the amount of clinics should not matter. You will have time to do one faculty led clinic. Possibly 2 if you're really ambitious. What matters is if they interest you. There is not time to do everything in law school, and clinic work is a HUGE chunk of time.

[DreamShake]

Current students--

Boalt's clinic offerings is very limited. How do students gain hands-on experience IN the law school (as opposed to externships, internships, etc.)?

Thanks!

What exactly do you mean by limited? There are 4 faculty led clinics and probably 10-15 student led ones. I don't know the actual number, but there are a lot.

what are the student led clinics and where can I find info on them?

I say "limited" as I'm comparing it to other schools I'm looking at that have 10+ faculty led clinics. This is all I've found: http://www.law.berkeley.edu/clinics.htm

I have no idea where the info is. Maybe try searching on the site.

Really, the amount of clinics should not matter. You will have time to do one faculty led clinic. Possibly 2 if you're really ambitious. What matters is if they interest you. There is not time to do everything in law school, and clinic work is a HUGE chunk of time.

Out of curiosity, do you happen to know if there's an animal law clinic? I know there's a student organization but am unaware of any animal law clinics/journals. TIA!

[Kronk]

Current students--

Boalt's clinic offerings is very limited. How do students gain hands-on experience IN the law school (as opposed to externships, internships, etc.)?

Thanks!

First of all I agree with WorldTraveler that there are a lot of clinics. For me, there were at least 3 student led clinics I was interested in. Secondly, I would say that getting hands-on experience while in law school isn't hugely important, probably more of a nice detour from class. You have summers to get hands-on experience, and you can also do externships in SF or through UCDC with almost any employer you want, so if you aren't interest in one of the faculty-led clinics at Boalt, you can always find an organization you're interested in and work for them for a semester.

[Rotor]

I'm getting mixed feedback regarding job prospects and Boalt's grading system. One 1L has told me things aren't as bad as people make it out to be based on the good news she's heard from other 2Ls. Then you have this post:

http://boaltalk.blogspot.com/2011/03/ug ... stics.html

How relevant is this for those of us pursuing careers in IP with non-science backgrounds? And will Boalt's reputation for IP (#1) give us a boost for firms seeking IP associates as opposed to say, Columbia (#6), all else being "equal" more or less (class rank, law review, etc.)?

TIA.

Are there people having trouble in this job market? Absolutely. But take posts like that for what they are worth-- as anecdotal data. Scroll back a bit in this thread and you'll see I'm on the flip side and think that Boalt's employment prospects are pretty good considering the market.

As for IP jobs without the tech degree, I looked into it briefly. Certainly being from Boalt will help-- but you'll need to get some IP credentials of some sort to even play for jobs (Patent Bar, etc.) since most employers at OCIP indicated pretty clearly that they were looking for BS (at least) in a hard science and you'll be competing with plenty of folks with PhD/MS. That said, I have a non-tech friend who will be working IP in Palo Alto for the summer. (Note: Do not rely on this anecdotal info just as I cautioned you not to rely too heavily on the Nuts & Boalts post. Just demonstrating it can happen).

[Marshall Eriksen]

.

[bilbobaggins]

Current students--

Boalt's clinic offerings is very limited. How do students gain hands-on experience IN the law school (as opposed to externships, internships, etc.)?

Thanks!

First of all I agree with WorldTraveler that there are a lot of clinics. For me, there were at least 3 student led clinics I was interested in. Secondly, I would say that getting hands-on experience while in law school isn't hugely important, probably more of a nice detour from class. You have summers to get hands-on experience, and you can also do externships in SF or through UCDC with almost any employer you want, so if you aren't interest in one of the faculty-led clinics at Boalt, you can always find an organization you're interested in and work for them for a semester.

I would offer this to counter the advice above. You don't actually learn lawyering skills in most classes and so clinics are some of the best places to get that experience (as well as externships). If you never want to see the inside of a courtroom, that's fine, but if you do want to be a trial lawyer or want to go into PI, it's very important to have some good clinic experience- for your own development and for your resume.

Here's a page with more details on the student led projects: http://www.law.berkeley.edu/slips.htm

Make sure you go here: http://www.law.berkeley.edu/10640.htm

[Kronk]

Current students--

Boalt's clinic offerings is very limited. How do students gain hands-on experience IN the law school (as opposed to externships, internships, etc.)?

Thanks!

First of all I agree with WorldTraveler that there are a lot of clinics. For me, there were at least 3 student led clinics I was interested in. Secondly, I would say that getting hands-on experience while in law school isn't hugely important, probably more of a nice detour from class. You have summers to get hands-on experience, and you can also do externships in SF or through UCDC with almost any employer you want, so if you aren't interest in one of the faculty-led clinics at Boalt, you can always find an organization you're interested in and work for them for a semester.

I would offer this to counter the advice above. You don't actually learn lawyering skills in most classes and so clinics are some of the best places to get that experience (as well as externships). If you never want to see the inside of a courtroom, that's fine, but if you do want to be a trial lawyer or want to go into PI, it's very important to have some good clinic experience- for your own development and for your resume.

Here's a page with more details on the student led projects: http://www.law.berkeley.edu/slips.htm

Make sure you go here: http://www.law.berkeley.edu/10640.htm

My advice wasn't to say hands-on experience isn't nice to have. Just saying that I am doing a clinic and don't necessarily feel like I've learned any lawyering skills except putting together an application and dealing with a client. I anticipate that working this summer I will learn a lot more valuable skills. Same with an externship.

[pixytree]

Current students--

Boalt's clinic offerings is very limited. How do students gain hands-on experience IN the law school (as opposed to externships, internships, etc.)?

Thanks!

First of all I agree with WorldTraveler that there are a lot of clinics. For me, there were at least 3 student led clinics I was interested in. Secondly, I would say that getting hands-on experience while in law school isn't hugely important, probably more of a nice detour from class. You have summers to get hands-on experience, and you can also do externships in SF or through UCDC with almost any employer you want, so if you aren't interest in one of the faculty-led clinics at Boalt, you can always find an organization you're interested in and work for them for a semester.

I would offer this to counter the advice above. You don't actually learn lawyering skills in most classes and so clinics are some of the best places to get that experience (as well as externships). If you never want to see the inside of a courtroom, that's fine, but if you do want to be a trial lawyer or want to go into PI, it's very important to have some good clinic experience- for your own development and for your resume.

Here's a page with more details on the student led projects: http://www.law.berkeley.edu/slips.htm

Make sure you go here: http://www.law.berkeley.edu/10640.htm

Thanks. this helps! I don't need a lot of clinics, but I'd like the option of 1 or 2 that align with my career interests, which right now is focused on anti-human trafficking work.

[Rotor]

Current students--

Boalt's clinic offerings is very limited. How do students gain hands-on experience IN the law school (as opposed to externships, internships, etc.)?

Thanks!

First of all I agree with WorldTraveler that there are a lot of clinics. For me, there were at least 3 student led clinics I was interested in. Secondly, I would say that getting hands-on experience while in law school isn't hugely important, probably more of a nice detour from class. You have summers to get hands-on experience, and you can also do externships in SF or through UCDC with almost any employer you want, so if you aren't interest in one of the faculty-led clinics at Boalt, you can always find an organization you're interested in and work for them for a semester.

I would offer this to counter the advice above. You don't actually learn lawyering skills in most classes and so clinics are some of the best places to get that experience (as well as externships). If you never want to see the inside of a courtroom, that's fine, but if you do want to be a trial lawyer or want to go into PI, it's very important to have some good clinic experience- for your own development and for your resume.

Here's a page with more details on the student led projects: http://www.law.berkeley.edu/slips.htm

Make sure you go here: http://www.law.berkeley.edu/10640.htm

Thanks. this helps! I don't need a lot of clinics, but I'd like the option of 1 or 2 that align with my career interests, which right now is focused on anti-human trafficking work.

Then the International Human Rights Clinic is for you!

http://www.law.berkeley.edu/ihrlc.htm
http://www.law.berkeley.edu/6137.htm

I've heard great things about Prof. Fletcher who is the director. And I already gave a reputational shout-out to Saira Mohamed a little bit above here but for more info:

http://www.law.berkeley.edu/php-program ... acID=14277

She is teaching Int'l Human Rights this term (course, not clinic).

[Hattori Hanzo]

Does any of you guys know someone who's an exchange student there from HLS?

[srvyorgeneral]

I guess this is more of a question for 2Ls or 3Ls who have done the program, but it'd be good to get a sense of how the UC in DC program has been received. I see it's pretty small (20 - 30 people). I would love to know if people have heard whether it's been a good experience, a worthwhile investment of a semester's tuition, and if it's helped securing summer work or post-graduate work in the DC area.

[BackToTheOldHouse]

I'm getting mixed feedback regarding job prospects and Boalt's grading system. One 1L has told me things aren't as bad as people make it out to be based on the good news she's heard from other 2Ls. Then you have this post:

http://boaltalk.blogspot.com/2011/03/ug ... stics.html

How relevant is this for those of us pursuing careers in IP with non-science backgrounds? And will Boalt's reputation for IP (#1) give us a boost for firms seeking IP associates as opposed to say, Columbia (#6), all else being "equal" more or less (class rank, law review, etc.)?

TIA.

Are there people having trouble in this job market? Absolutely. But take posts like that for what they are worth-- as anecdotal data. Scroll back a bit in this thread and you'll see I'm on the flip side and think that Boalt's employment prospects are pretty good considering the market.

As for IP jobs without the tech degree, I looked into it briefly. Certainly being from Boalt will help-- but you'll need to get some IP credentials of some sort to even play for jobs (Patent Bar, etc.) since most employers at OCIP indicated pretty clearly that they were looking for BS (at least) in a hard science and you'll be competing with plenty of folks with PhD/MS. That said, I have a non-tech friend who will be working IP in Palo Alto for the summer. (Note: Do not rely on this anecdotal info just as I cautioned you not to rely too heavily on the Nuts & Boalts post. Just demonstrating it can happen).

So, am I reading this correctly: no science/computer/tech background = no IP chances? (with the exception of your friend doing IP in Palo Alto this summer).

I guess my inquiry could be better explained thusly: do many non-tech, non-engineer, non-computer geniuses pursue IP at Boalt. I am interested in studying and working in IP, but not patent law. Is this a realistic path? I have just assumed that there is a lot more to IP than just super technical science patent stuff, but maybe there's not . . .

Yes, I'm obviously an uniformed 0L, but love me anyway please .

[BackToTheOldHouse]

I guess my inquiry could be better explained thusly: do many non-tech, non-engineer, non-computer geniuses pursue IP at Boalt. I am interested in studying and working in IP, but not patent law. Is this a realistic path? I have just assumed that there is a lot more to IP than just super technical science patent stuff, but maybe there's not . . .

There is a lot more to it, but at the same time these jobs are pretty limited. There are significantly more jobs in patent law. For example, most of the trademark prosecutors that I met at firms were also patent prosecutors. And a lot of people doing TM or (C) litigation also do patent litigation.

I wouldn't count it out, but would target firms that have soft IP practices, but go in on the interview/understanding that you will be doing general litigation with the chance of doing some IP. But, that being said, some people do land pure soft IP jobs.

Thanks for the response! Bolded above is what I am actually thinking would work best for me. With that said, and as a member of the class of 2012 (congrats!), would you recommend I spend the majority of my time focusing in IP? I figure I might as well focus in one are of the law (IP) while also doing as much as possible to learn a broader area of the law (litigation).

I have been reading about the tech-centric clinic (Samuelson Law, Technology & Public Policy Clinic) and would love to be a part of that. I have also looked into the journal (Berkeley Tech Law Journal). These seem like fantastic programs worth being a part of. What I wonder is, would someone like me (read: no hard science or patent background), be completely out of place participating (and maybe even excelling ) in these programs?

TIA for your answers (note: I will also thank you afterwards )

[worldtraveler]

I guess my inquiry could be better explained thusly: do many non-tech, non-engineer, non-computer geniuses pursue IP at Boalt. I am interested in studying and working in IP, but not patent law. Is this a realistic path? I have just assumed that there is a lot more to IP than just super technical science patent stuff, but maybe there's not . . .

There is a lot more to it, but at the same time these jobs are pretty limited. There are significantly more jobs in patent law. For example, most of the trademark prosecutors that I met at firms were also patent prosecutors. And a lot of people doing TM or (C) litigation also do patent litigation.

I wouldn't count it out, but would target firms that have soft IP practices, but go in on the interview/understanding that you will be doing general litigation with the chance of doing some IP. But, that being said, some people do land pure soft IP jobs.

Thanks for the response! Bolded above is what I am actually thinking would work best for me. With that said, and as a member of the class of 2012 (congrats!), would you recommend I spend the majority of my time focusing in IP? I figure I might as well focus in one are of the law (IP) while also doing as much as possible to learn a broader area of the law (litigation).

I have been reading about the tech-centric clinic (Samuelson Law, Technology & Public Policy Clinic) and would love to be a part of that. I have also looked into the journal (Berkeley Tech Law Journal). These seem like fantastic programs worth being a part of. What I wonder is, would someone like me (read: no hard science or patent background), be completely out of place participating (and maybe even excelling ) in these programs?

TIA for your answers (note: I will also thank you afterwards )

Amy will know best, but there are people on the journal without a tech or science background. I also do know of at least 1 2L doing IP without a science background and he/she has a firm job for the summer. I gather there was a lot of luck involved in that, though.

[bilbobaggins]

it seems like a lot of my 2L/3L friends that I know who participate in these sorts of things/ have jobs that specialize in IP do not have science backgrounds.

[BackToTheOldHouse]

it seems like a lot of my 2L/3L friends that I know who participate in these sorts of things/ have jobs that specialize in IP do not have science backgrounds.

Patent litigation is a different beast than patent prosecution for sure. You don't need to pass the patent bar to do this. And you really don't need a science degree, but that will depend on the firm. Some firms really care, and others don't. However, at firms with a mix of types of folks the ones who don't end up doing motion practice (discovery, etc) and damages work, while those who do have the background do patent validity and infringement analyses. The latter is much more interesting than the former.

But there is the other extreme where some practitioners feel that non-science people are especially good at explaining things in laymen's terms.

Thanks, all!

So, from what has been said, we can conclude that there is a place for non-science folks to do IP at Boalt and beyond. While some firms will want to see hard science credentials, others will be okay (and maybe even happy) with science-less peps. I'm looking forward to exploring this and other topics in a few weeks at ASW! Go Bears!

[r6_philly]

Thanks, all!

So, from what has been said, we can conclude that there is a place for non-science folks to do IP at Boalt and beyond. While some firms will want to see hard science credentials, others will be okay (and maybe even happy) with science-less peps. I'm looking forward to exploring this and other topics in a few weeks at ASW! Go Bears!

The same answer was given at UVA's ASD yesterday. I think most people can try to target IP in law school, it would be easier to convince employers that IP is what you want to do if you have the background. But if you are committed in your course selection and involvement on campus I think that's plenty enough for most.

[BackToTheOldHouse]

Thanks, all!

So, from what has been said, we can conclude that there is a place for non-science folks to do IP at Boalt and beyond. While some firms will want to see hard science credentials, others will be okay (and maybe even happy) with science-less peps. I'm looking forward to exploring this and other topics in a few weeks at ASW! Go Bears!

The same answer was given at UVA's ASD yesterday. I think most people can try to target IP in law school, it would be easier to convince employers that IP is what you want to do if you have the background. But if you are committed in your course selection and involvement on campus I think that's plenty enough for most.

They root for the Bears at UVA . . . awesome!

[pkt63]

I was wondering what the alumni support/network is like at Boalt. I was just reading about alumni mentors for every 1L at UCLA, and I thought that would be a really helpful thing. Also, they have a lot of quotes about how UCLA alums at firms try to give extra help to LA candidates, from helping them prep for interviews and stuff, to actually giving them a leg up if they are the hiring or recruiting manager at a firm. Surely, anyone may act favorably toward their alma mater, but this seemed more like a cultural thing they tried to build in that you are charged with doing this as you go forward in life.

Does the Boalt alumnni network seem involved and caring about the next generation of Boalt alumni?