Columbia students taking questions Forum

[iamgeorgebush]

If I want to go into IP law and work in the Bay Area, I'm probably better off going to any of Berkeley, NYU, or Chicago, correct? Columbia seems to place almost exclusively at east coast firms and has I think one IP focused prof. I'd love to hear what Columbia students have to say though, very open to being convinced that I'm wrong

Columbia has "objectively" among the best IP faculty in the country. Many profs who work on IP directly or in some capacity; at least a dozen. So I'd say this is pretty misinformed.

Cal is best for bay area specifically, but CLS is as strong or stronger than NYU and Chicago for CA placement.

+1

as someone who was interested in IP before law school as was choosing among those schools, i remember thinking u. chicago and NYU did not have as good of IP faculties as CLS. as for berkeley, i remember thinking they had an equally good patent faculty but CLS had a much better soft IP faculty.

[pa1901]

Tbf, below Stone 1L makes the west coast very difficult even with significant ties--as someone who's been there done that/struck out at that.

This is anecdotal, but I had the opposite experience with trying to get back to CA. After all was said and done I felt that before EIP I was pushed too hard by people saying "west-coast is impossible without honors." I was non-Stone 1L (though tbf, I was still slightly above median) and am K-JD and getting back to CA went more smoothly than I had anticipated. I targeted both NorCal and SoCal and luckily was successful in both markets. I wasn't getting offers at Skadden or DPW or Latham's CA offices, which my grades obviously prohibited me from, but the CLS name still carried weight with many CA offices even without honors.

Just wanted to throw in my 2 cents so people in the future don't read this thread and think it's impossible to get back to CA from CLS without stellar grades or work experience. Definitely be cautious and use your top bids on high offer NY firms so you're safe, but don't be afraid of CA firms due to grades. As for if you are deciding between Berkeley and Columbia and you know you want to work in the Bay Area, then I would take Berkeley.

Lastly, ties are huge and where you spent your 1L summer is huge in my experience. I grew up in one of the CA markets (with family still in the area) I targeted and have significant ties to the other CA market (like my SO), and I worked in the latter my 1L summer. That certainly helped a lot in interviews to show I wanted to be in CA, but if you're targeting NorCal and SoCal expect to be asked by offices in the area you didn't work 1L summer why you now want to be there (e.g., if you worked 1L summer in NorCal and are in an interview for a SoCal firm they will almost certainly try and figure out if you really want to be in SoCal long term and why you decided to work in NorCal over SoCal during your 1L summer).

Again, the process of getting CA firms is highly individual, but I think there's more to CA than just grades like everyone told me in my first year.

[Monochromatic Oeuvre]

Also on practice interviews: OCS has a consultant, whose name I can't remember, that does great work with "presence." I.e. not just answering questions right, but doing everything with your handshake, voice, posture, body movements etc. to avoid making yourself look like a limp-dicked cream puff, which you are. Find this guy and set up multiple appointments.

[KiltedKicker]

Thank you all for the help, appreciate the input. From what you've said Berkeley does seem to be likely a better option, but I definitely will look closely at Columbia and consider the very obvious pros of coming here.

In the Admitted Student Handbook they have a list of 25 faculty members you can correspond with, I stupidly in my haste of reading through it managed to think that for some reason this must include all of their IP faculty. Looking at the site now there are 33 IP/tech related courses offered this year and I count 20+ different profs teaching them. Still researching the other schools but this seems pretty extensive. I will be honest though, their Lawyering in the Digital Age clinic is the only one relevant to what I want to do, and it seems less interesting to me than what other schools offer. Given the effectiveness of my last question, has anyone done it and can convince me that it's actually great when compared to the tech/entrepreneurship clinics at other schools in T10?

ties are huge

My ties are very strong. I grew up here and live here now, and my father was himself an IP litigator and general counsel.

i remember thinking they had an equally good patent faculty but CLS had a much better soft IP faculty

Huh, I'll have to look into that. I'm not sure yet what field of IP/tech law I'm really interested in, but it likely won't be patents.

Cal is best for bay area specifically, but CLS is as strong or stronger than NYU and Chicago for CA placement.

Thanks for the help. I looked at the numbers again and Columbia sends more people to the west coast than I originally thought. Not sure what site I originally got the CA placement numbers from (or if I just misremembered), but the school isn't 100% NYC locked. CA placement looks comparable to the other two mentioned, but given the accuracy of my previous numbers to this point I may want to double-check that.

Thank you again to everyone who answered my questions, I really appreciate it

[WhiteCollarBlueShirt]

WhiteCollar, were you going IP specifically?[/quote]

No, very far from IP--so limited relevance

[WhiteCollarBlueShirt]

Tbf, below Stone 1L makes the west coast very difficult even with significant ties--as someone who's been there done that/struck out at that.

This is anecdotal, but I had the opposite experience with trying to get back to CA. After all was said and done I felt that before EIP I was pushed too hard by people saying "west-coast is impossible without honors." I was non-Stone 1L (though tbf, I was still slightly above median) and am K-JD and getting back to CA went more smoothly than I had anticipated. I targeted both NorCal and SoCal and luckily was successful in both markets. I wasn't getting offers at Skadden or DPW or Latham's CA offices, which my grades obviously prohibited me from, but the CLS name still carried weight with many CA offices even without honors.

Just wanted to throw in my 2 cents so people in the future don't read this thread and think it's impossible to get back to CA from CLS without stellar grades or work experience. Definitely be cautious and use your top bids on high offer NY firms so you're safe, but don't be afraid of CA firms due to grades. As for if you are deciding between Berkeley and Columbia and you know you want to work in the Bay Area, then I would take Berkeley.

Lastly, ties are huge and where you spent your 1L summer is huge in my experience. I grew up in one of the CA markets (with family still in the area) I targeted and have significant ties to the other CA market (like my SO), and I worked in the latter my 1L summer. That certainly helped a lot in interviews to show I wanted to be in CA, but if you're targeting NorCal and SoCal expect to be asked by offices in the area you didn't work 1L summer why you now want to be there (e.g., if you worked 1L summer in NorCal and are in an interview for a SoCal firm they will almost certainly try and figure out if you really want to be in SoCal long term and why you decided to work in NorCal over SoCal during your 1L summer).

Again, the process of getting CA firms is highly individual, but I think there's more to CA than just grades like everyone told me in my first year.

It's all anecdotal at the end of the day, likewise grew up in a major market in CA, family in that major market etc., K-JD, above median... it's a toss up, far from a guarantee either direction. End of the day, I didn't care, but if I knew I would be working in NY post-grad, I would've skipped law and been an analyst

Edit: Also situation/practice-area dependent, but w/in the first year post-grad non-IP people who cared to were lateraling to CA fairly easily--at least compared to OCI hiring

[MCFC]

Also on practice interviews: OCS has a consultant, whose name I can't remember, that does great work with "presence." I.e. not just answering questions right, but doing everything with your handshake, voice, posture, body movements etc. to avoid making yourself look like a limp-dicked cream puff, which you are. Find this guy and set up multiple appointments.

Jay. https://web.law.columbia.edu/career-ser ... -rhoderick

[Monochromatic Oeuvre]

Yep, that's the guy. Apparently teaches JPMorgan dudes and their ilk how to "run a boardroom" as a 9-5. The non-verbal stuff is hardly ever discussed by either OCS or TLS, despite the fact that your interviewer has probably already decided whether or not they like you before you launch into your stupid fucking story about how your entire life has been leading up to Paul Hastings.

[TheoO]

Also on practice interviews: OCS has a consultant, whose name I can't remember, that does great work with "presence." I.e. not just answering questions right, but doing everything with your handshake, voice, posture, body movements etc. to avoid making yourself look like a limp-dicked cream puff, which you are. Find this guy and set up multiple appointments.

I used him and advised many to do so as well. The best part (and painful) was when he taped the practice interview and then went over it with me.

[almondjoy]

I used him and advised many to do so as well. The best part (and painful) was when he taped the practice interview and then went over it with me.

God that seems rough. I would just be cringing at myself the entire time. Sounds super useful tho

[doctorjuris]

Oh and also wondering if others could weigh in on dress-code for firm lunch receptions at the faculty house

[dabigchina]

Thanks for the feedback. I remember seeing a number saying Bay Area placement was about 1% of the class a year or two ago, maybe that source was off though.

Cal. Not even close.

Also, what's with the terrible west coast placement. looking at the summer class distributions, it looks like Columbia has some of the the worst bay area placement in the T10. IE, there are like 4 CLS grads total split between the big SV firms. I can't imagine it's all self selection. It's almost enough to make me want to transfer.

[MCFC]

People who had Harcourt for crim: what's your advice for how to do well in his class? I had heard from upper-years that his class is kind of a mess and that there isnt really a great hornbook for his class, so wondering if there was a particular strategy you guys found helpful. thanks!

I used the Dressler hornbook for the black letter law stuff. Like you say, it's tough because 50% of the final is probably going to be more of a current events/philosophical question. Just try to understand where he and the readings are coming from and talk about both sides of the issue if you can. I know that's really general advice, but honestly you'll be okay.

[White Dwarf]

People who had Harcourt for crim: what's your advice for how to do well in his class? I had heard from upper-years that his class is kind of a mess and that there isnt really a great hornbook for his class, so wondering if there was a particular strategy you guys found helpful. thanks!

Oh and also wondering if others could weigh in on dress-code for firm lunch receptions at the faculty house

In this class as well.

At least it's only twice a week...

[Burlington4174]

Also on practice interviews: OCS has a consultant, whose name I can't remember, that does great work with "presence." I.e. not just answering questions right, but doing everything with your handshake, voice, posture, body movements etc. to avoid making yourself look like a limp-dicked cream puff, which you are. Find this guy and set up multiple appointments.

I used him and advised many to do so as well. The best part (and painful) was when he taped the practice interview and then went over it with me.

What kind of rate does he charge? I am guessing Columbia does not cover it.

[Tiago Splitter]

Thanks for the feedback. I remember seeing a number saying Bay Area placement was about 1% of the class a year or two ago, maybe that source was off though.

Cal. Not even close.

Also, what's with the terrible west coast placement. looking at the summer class distributions, it looks like Columbia has some of the the worst bay area placement in the T10. IE, there are like 4 CLS grads total split between the big SV firms. I can't imagine it's all self selection. It's almost enough to make me want to transfer.

Columbia places like 10% of its class into California each year.

Not sure what summer class distributions thread you are referring to but the current one has very little info on SV.

[RSN]

Thanks for the feedback. I remember seeing a number saying Bay Area placement was about 1% of the class a year or two ago, maybe that source was off though.

Cal. Not even close.

Also, what's with the terrible west coast placement. looking at the summer class distributions, it looks like Columbia has some of the the worst bay area placement in the T10. IE, there are like 4 CLS grads total split between the big SV firms. I can't imagine it's all self selection. It's almost enough to make me want to transfer.

Columbia places like 10% of its class into California each year.

Not sure what summer class distributions thread you are referring to but the current one has very little info on SV.

LST has the employer data by region: http://www.lstscorereports.com/schools/ ... tion/2014/

Looks like it's been between 7 and 10% in Cal. the past few years. That's over all employers of course, but I'm assuming 99% of that is biglaw.

[dabigchina]

Thanks for the feedback. I remember seeing a number saying Bay Area placement was about 1% of the class a year or two ago, maybe that source was off though.

Cal. Not even close.

Also, what's with the terrible west coast placement. looking at the summer class distributions, it looks like Columbia has some of the the worst bay area placement in the T10. IE, there are like 4 CLS grads total split between the big SV firms. I can't imagine it's all self selection. It's almost enough to make me want to transfer.

Columbia places like 10% of its class into California each year.

Not sure what summer class distributions thread you are referring to but the current one has very little info on SV.

http://www.top-law-schools.com/forums/v ... 3&t=239113

I'm going off of Cooley and and WSGR. 4 Total. 3 seems surprisingly high for Wilson actually. The year before I think they only took 1 from CLS. With the way the markets are going I wouldn't be surprised if they cut back on hiring next year. Granted, that thread doesn't have Orrick, Mofo, Fenwick, or Gunderson.

This may sound entitled, but it doesn't feel good when it sounds like CLS's recruiting clout in Norcal is on par with GULC and Michigan.

CLS does seem to do better in SoCal though.

ETA: Anecdotally, it just seems like bidding heavily on NorCal is like the one way to really have a good chance of striking out from CLS.

[Tiago Splitter]

Yeah you can strike out bidding all Norcal just like you can strike out bidding any secondary market. That's just the reality of small class sizes. It has nothing to do with recruiting clout.

Also you're missing a lot of other firms on your list. If Columbia absolutely killed it in Norcal they'd place 1-2 people per office, so no reason to conclude anything from the rosters of two firms.

[Monochromatic Oeuvre]

Thanks for the feedback. I remember seeing a number saying Bay Area placement was about 1% of the class a year or two ago, maybe that source was off though.

Cal. Not even close.

Also, what's with the terrible west coast placement. looking at the summer class distributions, it looks like Columbia has some of the the worst bay area placement in the T10. IE, there are like 4 CLS grads total split between the big SV firms. I can't imagine it's all self selection. It's almost enough to make me want to transfer.

Columbia places like 10% of its class into California each year.

Not sure what summer class distributions thread you are referring to but the current one has very little info on SV.

http://www.top-law-schools.com/forums/v ... 3&t=239113

I'm going off of Cooley and and WSGR. 4 Total. 3 seems surprisingly high for Wilson actually. The year before I think they only took 1 from CLS. With the way the markets are going I wouldn't be surprised if they cut back on hiring next year. Granted, that thread doesn't have Orrick, Mofo, Fenwick, or Gunderson.

This may sound entitled, but it doesn't feel good when it sounds like CLS's recruiting clout in Norcal is on par with GULC and Michigan.

CLS does seem to do better in SoCal though.

ETA: Anecdotally, it just seems like bidding heavily on NorCal is like the one way to really have a good chance of striking out from CLS.

C/o '15 had:

1 at Cooley
1 at DPW
1 at Gibson
2 at MoFo
1 at Shearman
1 at STB
2 at Skadden
1 at WSGR

Just LOL at wanting to live in the one area worse than NYC though, and double LOL at striving for CLS and debtpwning yourself in an area where you'll never buy a home instead of copping Berkeley $$$, and triple LOL at risking a strikeout for all this shit.

[ph5354a]

2 at WSGR, but agree with the sentiment.

[Monochromatic Oeuvre]

2 at WSGR, but agree with the sentiment.

I just went off the EIP handbook, which said 1 for c/o 2015. Maybe there was someone else, but I was too busy laughing at SV chicks with $4,000 rents to actually ask anyone about anything.

P.S. Miss you ph <3

[jbagelboy]

Thanks for the feedback. I remember seeing a number saying Bay Area placement was about 1% of the class a year or two ago, maybe that source was off though.

Cal. Not even close.

Also, what's with the terrible west coast placement. looking at the summer class distributions, it looks like Columbia has some of the the worst bay area placement in the T10. IE, there are like 4 CLS grads total split between the big SV firms. I can't imagine it's all self selection. It's almost enough to make me want to transfer.

This is really, really silly. Total nonsense

[ph5354a]

2 at WSGR, but agree with the sentiment.

I just went off the EIP handbook, which said 1 for c/o 2015. Maybe there was someone else, but I was too busy laughing at SV chicks with $4,000 rents to actually ask anyone about anything.

P.S. Miss you ph <3

Oh whoops I was doing our class.

Miss you more!

[TheoO]

Also on practice interviews: OCS has a consultant, whose name I can't remember, that does great work with "presence." I.e. not just answering questions right, but doing everything with your handshake, voice, posture, body movements etc. to avoid making yourself look like a limp-dicked cream puff, which you are. Find this guy and set up multiple appointments.

I used him and advised many to do so as well. The best part (and painful) was when he taped the practice interview and then went over it with me.

What kind of rate does he charge? I am guessing Columbia does not cover it.

Columbia covers it. So you should use it. CLS does a lot of stupid shit with your tuition money, but you should make sure to find out what resources are available to you.