Penn Students Taking Questions Forum

[PennBull]

Hey guys, upperclassmen/grads etc......

when we graduate, what do they give in terms of relative grades? Do we then get an exact GPA # (like 3.454)? Or do we get a ranking (e.g. top 65%)? Or is it just the summa/wtv titles and you are still not allowed to give out GPA/percentile?

tyvm

the latter

you mean just the latin honors right? and still not allowed to provide a GPA?

yes

it shouldn't matter anyways

[DCNTUA]

Can someone comment on why Lee is bad for Administrative? Is the exam fair?

[r6_philly]

Hey guys, upperclassmen/grads etc......

when we graduate, what do they give in terms of relative grades? Do we then get an exact GPA # (like 3.454)? Or do we get a ranking (e.g. top 65%)? Or is it just the summa/wtv titles and you are still not allowed to give out GPA/percentile?

tyvm

the latter

you mean just the latin honors right? and still not allowed to provide a GPA?

yes

it shouldn't matter anyways

I can only think of a few situations where gpa would make a difference but then other thing matter more so it really doesn't matter.

[PennBrady]

Thanks upperclassmen, there's some great advice here. So does anyone know what's the deal with:

Health Law with Ruger
Legislation with Gelbach
Privacy with Yoo/Steinfeld


Which professors are fairest at grading? Which of these classes draw the most LLM's? Which have the least random finals?

Gelbach has never taught Legislation before. He was...less than great for Civ Pro, but he's a good guy. Just rambly and disjointed in his lecture style, and lacking in experience. For legislation this probably doesn't matter, since there's not a lot of substance to the topic anyway.
His Civ Pro exam was funny and fair, if a little bit surprising in some ways.

Ruger was great for Legislation last year, and we wound up talking a lot about health law related cases, I assume because of his expertise on the subject. He's very organized and clear, and he seems to care about students. On the flip side he could be a little better at controlling the class and not letting the gunners filibuster all the time.
Exam was extremely straightforward and fair.

If it comes down to Gelbach vs. Ruger I would pick Ruger any day of the week, regardless of subject matter. No offense to Gelbach - he's still just really green. Plus there are preexisting outlines, which should be a critical consideration.

Any thoughts on Privacy with Yoo/Steinfeld

Haven't had either professor yet. I hear good things about Yoo as a professor, but complaints about his exams. I don't even know who Steinfeld is TBH.

[wildcatatpenn]

Hey guys, upperclassmen/grads etc......

when we graduate, what do they give in terms of relative grades? Do we then get an exact GPA # (like 3.454)? Or do we get a ranking (e.g. top 65%)? Or is it just the summa/wtv titles and you are still not allowed to give out GPA/percentile?

tyvm

the latter

you mean just the latin honors right? and still not allowed to provide a GPA?

yes

it shouldn't matter anyways

Well I am working in a market with very very few Penn grads, so not having to say i'm in the bottom 15%, and instead being able to just show a transcript with a bunch of B/B+/A-... this is great. also probably feel a little more okay with taking more classes that are graded harshly that i'm interested in if I don't have to be concerned with it dragging down by percentile.

and thanks!!

[Penn16]

Any advice on Wachter for Corporate Finance?

[PennBrady]

Any advice on Wachter for Corporate Finance?

He is really, really bad for Corporations. Spends most of the class rambling on unrelated tangents, explains nothing, asks incomprehensible questions, and sends weird emails twice a day linking to extracurricular reading (that again explain nothing about corporate law).

No idea how that plays out in Corporate Finance, but I would probably avoid him altogether.

[sopranorleone]

Any advice on Wachter for Corporate Finance?

He is really, really bad for Corporations. Spends most of the class rambling on unrelated tangents, explains nothing, asks incomprehensible questions, and sends weird emails twice a day linking to extracurricular reading (that again explain nothing about corporate law).

No idea how that plays out in Corporate Finance, but I would probably avoid him altogether.

I had him for Corp Fin. I liked him and the class a lot. He made a lot of jokes about how bad his mother-in-law was at personal finance. Final was long, but fair. You have homework assignments too, but they're ungraded. Definitely helps to do them though.

[B.B. Homemaker]

Any advice on Wachter for Corporate Finance?

He is really, really bad for Corporations. Spends most of the class rambling on unrelated tangents, explains nothing, asks incomprehensible questions, and sends weird emails twice a day linking to extracurricular reading (that again explain nothing about corporate law).

No idea how that plays out in Corporate Finance, but I would probably avoid him altogether.

YUP

[PennBull]

I've heard he's fucking awful for Corporations but fine for Corp Fin., at least better than Bratton

I've seen his optional homework for Corp Fin--they're actually really helpful and useful for learning the material for a final. A little bit more guidance than Bratton will ever give you.

[DCNTUA]

Sorry if this is a ridiculous question, but what does it mean when a class has two professors listed? Privacy next semester has Yoo/Steinfeld.

https://goat.law.upenn.edu/cf/coursefin ... 15A&page=1

[PennBull]

Sorry if this is a ridiculous question, but what does it mean when a class has two professors listed? Privacy next semester has Yoo/Steinfeld.

https://goat.law.upenn.edu/cf/coursefin ... 15A&page=1

It means two professors teach the class

[doing_it_in_a_car]

Question: do law firms at OCI care about 1L spring electives? Would privacy law and law and society in japan look bad if i'm aiming for corporate? Or should I bite the bullet and take admin?

[PennBull]

Question: do law firms at OCI care about 1L spring electives? Would privacy law and law and society in japan look bad if i'm aiming for corporate? Or should I bite the bullet and take admin?

Grades are the most important part, but a bad grade is exacerbated if it's for a bullshit sounding course. If it's a good grade then it really doesn't matter.

[r6_philly]

Take whatever course you think will get you the best grade. Since it's not like an exact science, then avoid whatever course that you think will get you a bad grade. I think many firms look at transcripts for the following 2 things:

1. What's the worst grade?
2. How many of those are there?

I feel that 1L subjects in law school are so far removed from actual practice, all the courses simply offer employers more (and probably fungible) chances to gauge your potential.

[PennBull]

Take whatever course you think will get you the best grade. Since it's not like an exact science, then avoid whatever course that you think will get you a bad grade. I think many firms look at transcripts for the following 2 things:

1. What's the worst grade?
2. How many of those are there?

I feel that 1L subjects in law school are so far removed from actual practice, all the courses simply offer employers more (and probably fungible) chances to gauge your potential.

yeah but there's a few more courses offered now than when we were there that are much more apparent bullshit haha

but yeah i agree that one should just go for grades

[r6_philly]

I'm still waiting for a bok course as related to food justice: pumpkin carving.

[wildcatatpenn]

Registration closes this weekend, anyone know anything about Finkelstein? I really need to take evidence for the prereqs for clinics and pro bono stuff but missed it this semester

Fertel also teaching it, but looks like its her first law school class, and closed book final. Really don't wanna deal with that crap anymore as a 2L memorizing shit

Finkelstein doesn't have any evaluations up either though. She seems super theroetical ("Yaley"), which sucks, but better than a closed book final... Unless she's a huge deuche like some of the other theoretical profs here. Or harsh grader/other factor

Anyone have any input? Thanks a bunch

[legendary47]

Registration closes this weekend, anyone know anything about Finkelstein? I really need to take evidence for the prereqs for clinics and pro bono stuff but missed it this semester

Fertel also teaching it, but looks like its her first law school class, and closed book final. Really don't wanna deal with that crap anymore as a 2L memorizing shit

Finkelstein doesn't have any evaluations up either though. She seems super theroetical ("Yaley"), which sucks, but better than a closed book final... Unless she's a huge deuche like some of the other theoretical profs here. Or harsh grader/other factor

Anyone have any input? Thanks a bunch

Read the evaluations from her Contracts classes. She regularly showed up 10 minutes late for class, blew off office hours, and generally showed no respect to the class. I had no problems with her teaching style (you're right that she is super theoretical and into philosophy), but the general disrespect is a deal killer. Maybe she's better for upper level classes but I'd take Fertel. She also mentioned in Contracts that she'd never taken Evidence in law school and she's never practiced (or taken the bar), so not sure where she gets off teaching Evidence. (The answer to that probably is enough 1Ls complained to the administration that she can't teach 1Ls anymore and she'd previously taught Evidence at another school). Seriously, read the Contracts evals before you enroll.

[legendary47]

Do NOT take Lee for Admin. That class was awful and the 24-hour take home exam was brutal. Abrams for Law & Econ was great: easy, little required reading, very laid back, and easy exam with a very generous curve.

I actually liked Lee for Admin a lot. Class was boring, but that'll be the case for any Admin professor. If you go to class, take good notes, and look over practice exams, the exam is really manageable. The class and lectures are EXTREMELY well organized and Lee is incredibly nice.

[PennBrady]

Registration closes this weekend, anyone know anything about Finkelstein? I really need to take evidence for the prereqs for clinics and pro bono stuff but missed it this semester

Fertel also teaching it, but looks like its her first law school class, and closed book final. Really don't wanna deal with that crap anymore as a 2L memorizing shit

Finkelstein doesn't have any evaluations up either though. She seems super theroetical ("Yaley"), which sucks, but better than a closed book final... Unless she's a huge deuche like some of the other theoretical profs here. Or harsh grader/other factor

Anyone have any input? Thanks a bunch

Read the evaluations from her Contracts classes. She regularly showed up 10 minutes late for class, blew off office hours, and generally showed no respect to the class. I had no problems with her teaching style (you're right that she is super theoretical and into philosophy), but the general disrespect is a deal killer. Maybe she's better for upper level classes but I'd take Fertel. She also mentioned in Contracts that she'd never taken Evidence in law school and she's never practiced (or taken the bar), so not sure where she gets off teaching Evidence. (The answer to that probably is enough 1Ls complained to the administration that she can't teach 1Ls anymore and she'd previously taught Evidence at another school). Seriously, read the Contracts evals before you enroll.

All of the above, and I would argue her teaching "style" is garbage; she overcomplicates simple concepts, presents material haphazardly, and in general is less useful a use of your class time than reading supplements. With the exception of the fact that she holds really weird (read: wrong, or at least extremely opinionated) beliefs about the law which you will be expected to parrot on exams.

But the bottom line is as the above poster said, that she just doesn't give a shit about her students or take her job as a teacher remotely seriously. She's a walking argument against tenure, so I don't recommend taking anything from her if you can avoid it.

[PennBull]

man, core class professors really seem to have gotten 10000x shittier than when I was a 1L

[notgreat]

man, core class professors really seem to have gotten 10000x shittier than when I was a 1L

Two out of my five core professors and one of my elective professors from 1L were objectively shitty. Not sure how that stacks up to c/o of 2014.

[PennBrady]

Any differences between Veasey or Reich for Professional Responsibility? Either one less work/hassle than the other?

[PennBull]

Any differences between Veasey or Reich for Professional Responsibility? Either one less work/hassle than the other?

oh my god definitely Reich. don't show up for any classes, take a day and a half to memorize the outline that will inevitably get shared around, get a solid grade