Columbia students taking questions Forum

[Monochromatic Oeuvre]

Full disclosure: I had HPM for conflicts and not fedcourts, but have spoken to others who took the latter and what follows seems to hold true for both.

For starters: there is no syllabus. At the end of each class, he will flip through the book and announce the next assignment. These tend to be on the shorter side, as he thinks most modern textbooks are filled with "useless filler" (he gets points for this, IMO). He assumes your familiarity with the material, so will not discuss it at any length. Instead, he'll ruminate on whatever aspect of the reading interests him. This will be interpersed with anecdotes of varying relevance. He will ocassionally put a question to the class (never a cold call). Important: this is when you need to act like your paying attention. If he sees you staring too intently at your screen or (god forbid) without a book, you will be chewed out mercilessly. After about half the allotted time, he'll call it a day. You'll look at your screen and realize you've taken about four lines of notes. You'll have to teach yourself the rest.

He has a lot of pet hates, including: arbitration, half the Supreme Court, modern law school curriculum ("law and bowling") etc. etc. These make for entertaining rants. By all appearances, he enjoys neither teaching nor the company of students. One wonders why, at his age, he bothers at all.

Think of him as a wheat beer. He has his devotees, but will turn off everyone else. Think carefully before committing to an entire semester of this.

All the criticism is on point, and yet I nonetheless enthusiastically recommend Monaghan for the sole reason that damn near every professor here is insufferable and it's a refreshing change of pace to have a professor give exactly as much of a fuck as you do.

[White Dwarf]

I had three grades get posted at once on Monday morning (Contracts/LPW/LR). I'd say there is a good chance a bunch more get posted on 1/11.

[banjo]

I had three grades get posted at once on Monday morning (Contracts/LPW/LR). I'd say there is a good chance a bunch more get posted on 1/11.

Decent chance. Over the last five semesters, Monday has been -- for me at least -- the most popular day for grades (with email notices coming the following morning). Thursday is the second most popular day. I've occasionally had grades posted on Tuesdays, Wednesdays, and Fridays as well (again with notices coming the following morning). I've had grades posted in the morning, around lunch, and in the late afternoon, and haven't really noticed a pattern there, but I don't refresh as much as I used to.

[GreenEggs]

Can anyone provide any information on what the grading curve is here? Is everything just hearsay?

The general consensus I've gathered is that the median is a B+, there are discretionary B-'s, and nothing below that. One professor commented he has to give some % A's some % B's, is there an actual % policy or that was just his take on it?

[White Dwarf]

For 1L courses (copied and pasted):

A+ is a grade to be used sparingly and only for truly extraordinary performance. In general, there should be no more than one A+ in a class and the grade should not be used automatically for the top performance in the class if that performance is not extraordinary.
A 6-11%
A- 13-19%
Range for all A family grades: 25-30%
B+ 30-35%
Range for all grades of B+ and above: 55-65%
Range for all grades of B and below: 35-45%

NB: Grades available below B are B- (B minus), C, and F. Instructors are not required to award these grades.

[GreenEggs]

For 1L courses (copied and pasted):

A+ is a grade to be used sparingly and only for truly extraordinary performance. In general, there should be no more than one A+ in a class and the grade should not be used automatically for the top performance in the class if that performance is not extraordinary.
A 6-11%
A- 13-19%
Range for all A family grades: 25-30%
B+ 30-35%
Range for all grades of B+ and above: 55-65%
Range for all grades of B and below: 35-45%

NB: Grades available below B are B- (B minus), C, and F. Instructors are not required to award these grades.

Woah! Where did you get this?

[GreenEggs]

Also did not realize that 35-45% are B's, thought it would be way lower.

[ColumbiaLS2016]

Also did not realize that 35-45% are B's, thought it would be way lower.

Yeah, and I think that's something that is very important for 1Ls to remember. The plurality of students will get a B in a class. Not only is getting a B not the end of the world, it is so so far from it. I got 2 Bs my first semester and thought my life was over, that I was dumb, that I would never get a job, etc. I posted around this time last year a message to 1Ls from someone who was below median after first semester, and I'll probably repost it, but while everyone is waiting on grades, it's important to realize just what a huge percentage of people get a B in a course, and almost every one of them will still end up with an amazing job at the end of law school.

[White Dwarf]

If you go to your Check Grades page on Lawnet, there is a link in the bottom right.

[thisone2014]

is there a hard deadline for when the profs have to give us our grades?

[almondjoy]

If you go to your Check Grades page on Lawnet, there is a link in the bottom right.

Wow so upper year courses really do have a more lenient grading scale. Sweet,

[GreenEggs]

If you go to your Check Grades page on Lawnet, there is a link in the bottom right.

Can't believe I never knew that it was there. Thank you!

[MCFC]

is there a hard deadline for when the profs have to give us our grades?

The academic calendar lists the 13th. But the consequences for missing that deadline are pretty nonexistent.

[thisone2014]

what's the conventional wisdom on what median is after 1L (if there is any)

For 1L courses (copied and pasted):

A+ is a grade to be used sparingly and only for truly extraordinary performance. In general, there should be no more than one A+ in a class and the grade should not be used automatically for the top performance in the class if that performance is not extraordinary.
A 6-11%
A- 13-19%
Range for all A family grades: 25-30%
B+ 30-35%
Range for all grades of B+ and above: 55-65%
Range for all grades of B and below: 35-45%

NB: Grades available below B are B- (B minus), C, and F. Instructors are not required to award these grades.

[jbagelboy]

The "median" course grade in a non-seminar for upperclassmen is still a B+. The median overall GPA across all classes is bound to be higher though. I would think ~3.4 for 2Ls and 3Ls, making about half the class Stone after the first year.

[thisone2014]

The "median" course grade in a non-seminar for upperclassmen is still a B+. The median overall GPA across all classes is bound to be higher though. I would think ~3.4 for 2Ls and 3Ls, making about half the class Stone after the first year.

sorry I meant the median overall GPA after 1L year (but before 2L-- i.e. during EIP)

[almondjoy]

The "median" course grade in a non-seminar for upperclassmen is still a B+. The median overall GPA across all classes is bound to be higher though. I would think ~3.4 for 2Ls and 3Ls, making about half the class Stone after the first year.

sorry I meant the median overall GPA after 1L year (but before 2L-- i.e. during EIP)

I think the concensus is ~B+ or just below

[GoneSouth]

Upperclassmen: how easy was it for you to sublet your housing for the summer? In particular would love to hear from people in Lenfest

[dabigchina]

The "median" course grade in a non-seminar for upperclassmen is still a B+. The median overall GPA across all classes is bound to be higher though. I would think ~3.4 for 2Ls and 3Ls, making about half the class Stone after the first year.

sorry I meant the median overall GPA after 1L year (but before 2L-- i.e. during EIP)

I think the concensus is ~B+ or just below

Isn't 3.41 Stone Scholar? I thought Consensus was they give Stone to top 25% of 1Ls.

[GreenEggs]

The "median" course grade in a non-seminar for upperclassmen is still a B+. The median overall GPA across all classes is bound to be higher though. I would think ~3.4 for 2Ls and 3Ls, making about half the class Stone after the first year.

sorry I meant the median overall GPA after 1L year (but before 2L-- i.e. during EIP)

I think the concensus is ~B+ or just below

Isn't 3.41 Stone Scholar? I thought Consensus was they give Stone to top 25% of 1Ls.

Yeah I think the upper limit would really be top 30%

[White Dwarf]

~3.41 after one semester is equivalent to B+/B+/A-, which seems like it could be top 30% given the 1L curve.

The GPA distinctions between people in the middle-third are probably close to negligible at this point. Someone who's way better at statistics should weigh-in, though.

[GreenEggs]

Anyone know the general policy for reviewing your past exam? Do professors just give them back, or do you have to e-mail them to ask to see it?

[almondjoy]

Anyone know the general policy for reviewing your past exam? Do professors just give them back, or do you have to e-mail them to ask to see it?

Email the prof and ask to go over it. They probably won't let you keep it but you can at least look it over while you're in their office

[Nebby]

~3.41 after one semester is equivalent to B+/B+/A-, which seems like it could be top 30% given the 1L curve.

The GPA distinctions between people in the middle-third are probably close to negligible at this point. Someone who's way better at statistics should weigh-in, though.

You're right.

When you apply to the DOJ Honors Program, you select your law school and enter in your grades manually. Law schools will provide DOJ a summary of the grading policy. That summary is also on the application after you've selected your law school in the DOJ Honors Application transcript section, which means you can view it as well as the DOJ. When you select CLS, it gives the grading policy, as well as the policy for honors. Here is what it says regarding honors:

Kent Scholar is generally awarded to the top 1-3 percent of each class..... Stone Scholar is generally awrded to 30 - 33 percent of the class. Only Law School course work is used to calculate honors.

[GreenEggs]

Kent Scholar is generally awarded to the top 1-3 percent of each class. Stone Scholar is awarded in recognition of superior academic achievement. A student shall be named a Stone Scholar if during an academic year the student has an academic average significantly better than B+, has earned at least 15 graded law credits toward his or her degree, and the student has received no grade lower than B-. Stone Scholar is generally awrded to 30 - 33 percent of the class. Only Law School course work is used to calculate honors.

Right but this includes non-1Ls which have a different grading curve. So if it's just 1Ls it's probably a bit lower.