Harvard Student(s) Answering Your Questions Forum

[AllTheLawz]

Thoughts on Ogletree 2Ls and 3Ls?

The best.

Going to disagree. On the scale of HLS professors he is fine I guess but that doesn't say much. He, like too many other professors, lets classes devolve into a series of too many questions without filling in useful facts or guiding discussion in a way that leads to creative solutions to the problem we are actually thinking about. If you are fine just talking about "interesting questions" in the same way you could in a study group without a professor then he is perfectly fine. If you actually want to think about problems, context and realistic approaches to solving problems then he is absolutely useless.

[ph14]

I'm going to talk to the 2/3Ls I know about this, but figured I would check here too - would it be weird/generally a bad idea to take 2 classes with the same professor in the spring? It's a class I'm genuinely interested in and wanted to take specifically with that professor, but I was hoping to do it a little later in the game.

I don't think that would be an issue.

[BlakcMajikc]

Thoughts on Ogletree 2Ls and 3Ls?

The best.

Going to disagree. On the scale of HLS professors he is fine I guess but that doesn't say much. He, like too many other professors, lets classes devolve into a series of too many questions without filling in useful facts or guiding discussion in a way that leads to creative solutions to the problem we are actually thinking about. If you are fine just talking about "interesting questions" in the same way you could in a study group without a professor then he is perfectly fine. If you actually want to think about problems, context and realistic approaches to solving problems then he is absolutely useless.

Agree to disagree. I love his class.

[Mr. Elshal]

Has anybody taken Business Strategy for Lawyers with Spier? I've been looking forward to taking it but it's on Monday and Tuesday mornings and I have Crim and LegReg on Mondays and Tuesdays as well as LRW on Mondays. Is that too much? Should I just wait to take it another semester?

[Person1111]

I'm going to talk to the 2/3Ls I know about this, but figured I would check here too - would it be weird/generally a bad idea to take 2 classes with the same professor in the spring? It's a class I'm genuinely interested in and wanted to take specifically with that professor, but I was hoping to do it a little later in the game.

I took a seminar and a big blackletter class from the same prof my 2L fall (as did 2 other people in the seminar). I liked both classes, but kind of wish that I had just taken the seminar with this prof (especially because I got a P in the blackletter class and didn't feel comfortable asking him for a rec afterwards).

[lawschoolboundfuture]

How many Hs is average for a 1L? What is bad and what is good?

[despina]

How many Hs is average for a 1L? What is bad and what is good?

There was a lot of discussion about this around December / January of last year, so page on back and see what folks had to say. In general, LPs are bad but not the end of the world as long as you don't make a habit of it, straight Ps are not bad but aren't going to rocket you to top firms / top clerkships, and the more Hs and DSs the better. Lots of people get straight Ps their first semester and do totally fine with EIP, public interest job searches, working with profs, etc.

[Doorkeeper]

How many Hs is average for a 1L? What is bad and what is good?

Around 3 Hs is average given a standard grade distribution.

What is "bad" and what is "good" depends entirely on your goals.

[Nyclawyer618]

..

[Person1111]

Probably can't get any P's if you want to be a SCOTUS clerk.

[ph14]

Probably can't get any P's if you want to be a SCOTUS clerk.

Not true:

Dear Class of 2015,

Congratulations on completing your first semester of law school. Here are a couple things for you to keep in mind as we approach the time for grades to be released:

* * *

Professor Hal Scott got a D in Constitutional Law. “We do some of that here,” Justice Byron White told Scott when he went for a clerkship interview. Scott nonetheless was selected to serve as one of Justice White’s few Supreme Court law clerks.

* * *

[Person1111]

There's a saying about exceptions that prove the rule. There are a lot of great things you can do with an HLS degree even if you have a significant number of Ps. Being a SCOTUS clerk is probably not one of them.

[wert3813]

Are grades higher second semester since many 1Ls end up in an uncurved class?

[Stinson]

Oh man, people posted the annual shitboomers-on-grades thing before I could caution against it.

"Straight C's? You'll have to settle for 9th circuit."
- Professor Ronald C. Shitboomer, Esquire and Professor Emeritus, 1970.

[wert3813]

Oh man, people posted the annual shitboomers-on-grades thing before I could caution against it.

"Straight C's? You'll have to settle for 9th circuit."
- Professor Ronald C. Shitboomer, Esquire and Professor Emeritus, 1970.

Don't worry we all assumed he made an A in every other class.

[tomwatts]

Are grades higher second semester since many 1Ls end up in an uncurved class?

No, both to the premise and to the conclusion. And, come to think of it, to the central assumption.

EDIT:

What I mean is: no, there aren't enough 1Ls who end up in uncurved classes to make a difference; no, classes without a mandatory curve don't necessarily have substantial grade inflation relative to mandatory curve classes; and no, grades are not substantially higher in second semester of 1L year.

[Blessedassurance]

Are grades higher second semester since many 1Ls end up in an uncurved class?

??

[Doorkeeper]

How many Hs is average for a 1L? What is bad and what is good?

Around 3 Hs is average given a standard grade distribution.

What is "bad" and what is "good" depends entirely on your goals.

SCOTUS clerk?

1. lol. It's not happening, buddy.
2. At a minimum, you need to graduate significantly above magna cum laude, which is a 3.95. DS = 5. H = 4. P = 3.

[Person1111]

If you had rock-solid conservative credentials and jaw-dropping recs from Fried/Manning/etc., you might be able to get Thomas even without perfect grades. If you don't, then you need to have tippy top grades and probably LR.

[justinp]

How many Hs is average for a 1L? What is bad and what is good?

Around 3 Hs is average given a standard grade distribution.

What is "bad" and what is "good" depends entirely on your goals.

SCOTUS clerk?

Treating this as a serious question, though I'm not sure why: You want the number of DS's you have minus the number of P's you have to be in the 3 or 4+ range (more is obviously better-- I think the top student in 2013 was +7 at graduation and that person will be heading upstairs in OT 2015). Plus LR and close relationships with professors who are known for taking an active role in the clerkship process. Plus (and here's where it starts to get hard even for folks who are good at the legal writing stuff that gets you good grades + LR) a really top-notch ability to talk about legal issues, because clerkship interviews are substantive.

Plus about a dozen additional increasingly high and small hoops to jump through.

[EijiMiyake]

Actually, there was a cum laude graduate clerking for SCOTUS last year (or the year before?). I don't remember her exact situation, but I'm pretty sure she was a transfer student and on LR.

[lawschoolboundfuture]

What is good if you want to work for the government (Think DOJ)

[tomwatts]

What is good if you want to work for the government (Think DOJ)

Probably something related to whatever it is that you want to do for the government. The DOJ does a lot of different things.

[lawschoolboundfuture]

I meant how good do your grades have to be

[arez]

Is copyright with Fisher one of those classes you have to rank 1st to have a chance at? How about labor law with Sachs?