WUSTL Recent Grad (and others) Taking Questions Forum

[wannabelawstudent]

I think just most people would rather be safe than sorry when it comes to stuff like that. So I know it's appreciated when you guys say "I dunno about this area." Speaking of which is the The Castlereagh Apartments on Delmar in in a safe area, would anyone recommend living or not living in a 1-bed/studio there?

[Randomnumbers]

I think just most people would rather be safe than sorry when it comes to stuff like that. So I know it's appreciated when you guys say "I dunno about this area." Speaking of which is the The Castlereagh Apartments on Delmar in in a safe area, would anyone recommend living or not living in a 1-bed/studio there?

Surrounded by a post office, a campus building, city hall, a library, and a police station...

[romothesavior]

Hoos, that's pretty unfair man. I'm just giving my opinion based on my three years of experience in STL. I'm not even saying not to live there, plenty of people do and they've never had issues. But is DB Place, especially west and north, more dangerous than Clayton or CWE or even Soulard? Yep. Saying that doesn't make somebody a racist.

I lived in the Skinker-DB area near the Delmar metro stop for a year and loved it. I still hang out in the Loop regularly and I worked in the Loop for a year. But that doesn't change the fact that in my year on the Loop, I had a bullet go through a window directly below my kitchen window, there was a gang fight 30 people deep that piled out of the alley behind my house as my girlfriend and I were walking to dinner, and I unknowingly ate dinner at Pin Up 30 minutes after someone was shot in the street 50 feet from where I sat. I also worked on the Loop at a restaurant and the bartender was hit over the head with the butt of a gun for refusing to give a few hoodlums a beer, and I was threatened by a patron one night and had to be walked to my car. These are just the facts. I've had friends with similar experiences further east towards DB (including a mugging near there). So when I say "This area is safer than that area," its not because "OMG black people!" Really low blow dude. KMA

[romothesavior]

I think just most people would rather be safe than sorry when it comes to stuff like that. So I know it's appreciated when you guys say "I dunno about this area." Speaking of which is the The Castlereagh Apartments on Delmar in in a safe area, would anyone recommend living or not living in a 1-bed/studio there?

Surrounded by a post office, a campus building, city hall, a library, and a police station...

And it's just off the Loop, so a little bit less traffic/quieter than the hear of the Loop.

[sublime]

..

[wannabelawstudent]

I'd be willing to bet that those are on the 6600 block of Washington street, so that would be an easy 10 minute walk from the law school, in a pretty decent neighborhood. I know they had some units there that were only available until December 2012, because they were going to remodel them.

It is on the 6600 block, sorry I don't know the area too well. The building is a 3-story building, which from the plans I saw, theres 3 units a floor, (2 around 650 sq ft, 1 around 1000). Which is why I said 9 people.

I live on that block (non-quad housing), it's super convenient for school. Green line shuttle goes by there every 20 minutes and it's a 7 minute walk to school. Probably the best place to live if you don't have a car.

Sounds like this is the area I should be shooting for then. Any tips on finding them. Quad vs non-quad? etc? Thanks.

Sublime, and anyone else, check out the grad students section on this page, that's where I found the place I'm referencing, but I'm sure others on this site are just as good. --LinkRemoved--

[sublime]

..

[wannabelawstudent]

Sublime, and anyone else, check out the grad students section on this page, that's where I found the place I'm referencing, but I'm sure others on this site are just as good. --LinkRemoved--

Cool, thanks. I had looked at their site before, but had heard mixed things about the quad. Probably will be my best choice though since I would be signing the lease site unseen.

Ya same here, kinda hard to find a reliable place from afar,

[Unagi]

What do you guys have to say about employment law with Kim?
Is it too much work?

[Michael Bluth]

What do you guys have to say about employment law with Kim?
Is it too much work?

To be honest it is a LOT of reading. 20-30 pages a night is the norm. And she tends to get sidetracked easily. Or maybe sidetracked isn't the word I'm going for - more like she slows the class down while searching for a very particular answer and won't move on until someone gives her what she wants.

That said, she is very clear on concepts and whatnot. Oh, and one last gripe: the binding on the casebook (which she wrote) is the worst I've ever seen in law school. I think half the class had it duct-taped or otherwise rigged like halfway through the semester.

[romothesavior]

What do you guys have to say about employment law with Kim?
Is it too much work?

I didn't think so. Maybe 20 pages a night or so? Pretty average workload, and Kim is great. Maybe the best exam writer at the school too.

ETA: Maybe Bluth is right, it's been a while. And the binding was AWFUL.

[Michael Bluth]

What do you guys have to say about employment law with Kim?
Is it too much work?

I didn't think so. Maybe 20 pages a night or so? Pretty average workload, and Kim is great. Maybe the best exam writer at the school too.

ETA: Maybe Bluth is right, it's been a while. And the binding was AWFUL.

Eh I was just spoiled 1L year. Drobak gave maybe 10 pages a night, DeGeest slightly more, etc. At least for me, her assignments have been on the high end.

[romothesavior]

What do you guys have to say about employment law with Kim?
Is it too much work?

I didn't think so. Maybe 20 pages a night or so? Pretty average workload, and Kim is great. Maybe the best exam writer at the school too.

ETA: Maybe Bluth is right, it's been a while. And the binding was AWFUL.

Eh I was just spoiled 1L year. Drobak gave maybe 10 pages a night, DeGeest slightly more, etc. At least for me, her assignments have been on the high end.

DeGeest radically changed his class after my 1L year. We read the entire book cover to cover, on top of like the 2-3 weeks of "applications" at the beginning of the semester. We had 30-40 pages on the reg. For our second day of reading we had 86 pages. Sometimes we had less (10-15) but it looks like ~30 was the average.

[hoos89]

/

[romothesavior]

Look, I'm not unsympathetic to what you are saying. The racial segregation of St. Louis neighborhoods is an urban tragedy of the worst kind, and the white population (particularly those who headed west for their McMansions) are much to blame for this city's problems. I also realize that many of the neighborhoods being described as "sketch" are heavily black. (As an aside, when I used weird I meant that DB and many other STL areas are weird in that nice and safe neighborhoods run up to and even overlap with rougher areas.) I also understand what you are feeling about the "thinly veiled racism ITT" and I was particularly taken aback by the "blending in" comment.

But I'm not going to sit here and lie and say "Oh yeah the Loop and DeBalleviere are super safe, no worries man" when I know there are safer neighborhoods out there. That's not to say don't live there; plenty of folks live around DB and I hang out at some apartments around there regularly. I also hang on the Loop on a weekly basis. But I am much, much more cautious walking around say, the Loop than I am Clayton at night. I am much more worried about leaving my car behind Cicero's or Pin Up than I am Krueger's or even Bar Louie in CWE. I don't see what's controversial about that, it really has nothing to do with race, and its info I think people are entitled to know.

[dietcoke0]

What do you guys have to say about employment law with Kim?
Is it too much work?

I didn't think so. Maybe 20 pages a night or so? Pretty average workload, and Kim is great. Maybe the best exam writer at the school too.

ETA: Maybe Bluth is right, it's been a while. And the binding was AWFUL.

Eh I was just spoiled 1L year. Drobak gave maybe 10 pages a night, DeGeest slightly more, etc. At least for me, her assignments have been on the high end.

DeGeest radically changed his class after my 1L year. We read the entire book cover to cover, on top of like the 2-3 weeks of "applications" at the beginning of the semester. We had 30-40 pages on the reg. For our second day of reading we had 86 pages. Sometimes we had less (10-15) but it looks like ~30 was the average.

Wow, I think we've read about 300 pages out of the case book in De Geest this semester. We had a month, where we just read the Posner treatise, and went over an outline he gave to us. Was hardly any cold calling (if at all) then we got into the cases, and all of a sudden, he was calling on 10-30 students a class. Big jump. We also had a week of applications on either end of the case book readings.

BTW, anyone got any protips on De Geest, Magarian, or Inazu's finals? I think I got them all down, but didn't know if someone wanted to throw a few pointers out there.

[Oban]

Look, I'm not unsympathetic to what you are saying. The racial segregation of St. Louis neighborhoods is an urban tragedy of the worst kind, and the white population (particularly those who headed west for their McMansions) are much to blame for this city's problems. I also realize that many of the neighborhoods being described as "sketch" are heavily black. (As an aside, when I used weird I meant that DB and many other STL areas are weird in that nice and safe neighborhoods run up to and even overlap with rougher areas.) I also understand what you are feeling about the "thinly veiled racism ITT" and I was particularly taken aback by the "blending in" comment.

But I'm not going to sit here and lie and say "Oh yeah the Loop and DeBalleviere are super safe, no worries man" when I know there are safer neighborhoods out there. That's not to say don't live there; plenty of folks live around DB and I hang out at some apartments around there regularly. I also hang on the Loop on a weekly basis. But I am much, much more cautious walking around say, the Loop than I am Clayton at night. I am much more worried about leaving my car behind Cicero's or Pin Up than I am Krueger's or even Bar Louie in CWE. I don't see what's controversial about that, and its info I think people are entitled to know.

The thing to remember is that Criminals goes where the money/victims are. Hence cars getting broken into in the CWE and people getting mugged near/on the loop despite the neighborhoods overall low crime rates. No place is going to be 100 safe, but in general these areas are fine. FWIW, I think some of the neighborhoods a bit farther from Campus are just as fun/funner and safer. EG Downtown, Soulard and Tower Grove.

[romothesavior]

For degeest, know his quirks and policy/economics stuff. And move quickly... its a very time-intensive exam.

[Michael Bluth]

You have to realize that you are walking a tight line in this sort of conversation. There's a difference between "hey that area is objectively unsafe" and "it's weird." Was your comment in a vacuum necessarily over the line? Probably not. However, the conversation as a whole had (in my opinion) a distinct racial undertone, so I don't really think I was that far off base. Some of the language certain people have used has left me to wonder if they are simply using the perceived racial makeup of an area as a proxy for violence, and some of it has been...less than subtle (See: comment about "blending in"). Nonetheless, it was unfair of me to call you out for it specifically; I apologize.

I think the moral of the story is if you have a problem with the way someone ITT is treating race, you should call them out directly (i.e. the line that's been mentioned several times). But what you shouldn't do (IMO of course) is call out the guy who started this thread literally years ago and who is bar none the most helpful and willing student resource at Wash U over misunderstanding what he meant by the word "weird." If you knew Romo IRL you'd see how ludicrous this all is.

/semi-rant
//also I like your Lionel Hutz avatar

Also, re: Degeest, if you're short on time or just want a decent overview of stuff, the Chirelstein book with the sailboat on it is really helpful.

[Birdnals]

The thing to remember is that Criminals goes where the money/victims are. Hence cars getting broken into in the CWE and people getting mugged near/on the loop despite the neighborhoods overall low crime rates. No place is going to be 100 safe, but in general these areas are fine. FWIW, I think some of the neighborhoods a bit farther from Campus are just as fun/funner and safer. EG Downtown, Soulard and Tower Grove.

Tower Grove is the best safety-to-proximity to fun ratio of the St. Louis Neighborhoods IMO. Pretty much equal distances from Downtown, Soulard, and CWE. As racially mixed as any St. Louis neighborhood gets, but very little crime (I don't really walk around anywhere though, so that may be why I don't notice crime if there is any). Harry's/Talaynas both a 10 dollar cab ride away.

I also like Clayton a ton, but distance from 3AM bars is killer.

If I was a 0L who wasn't from STL and/or didn't have a car though I would live in CWE hands down. It's where probably half your 1L classmates will live and is small enough that they will all be within walking distance of you probably.

[TatteredDignity]

Hoos, that's pretty unfair man. I'm just giving my opinion based on my three years of experience in STL. I'm not even saying not to live there, plenty of people do and they've never had issues. But is DB Place, especially west and north, more dangerous than Clayton or CWE or even Soulard? Yep. Saying that doesn't make somebody a racist.

I lived in the Skinker-DB area near the Delmar metro stop for a year and loved it. I still hang out in the Loop regularly and I worked in the Loop for a year. But that doesn't change the fact that in my year on the Loop, I had a bullet go through a window directly below my kitchen window, there was a gang fight 30 people deep that piled out of the alley behind my house as my girlfriend and I were walking to dinner, and I unknowingly ate dinner at Pin Up 30 minutes after someone was shot in the street 50 feet from where I sat. I also worked on the Loop at a restaurant and the bartender was hit over the head with the butt of a gun for refusing to give a few hoodlums a beer, and I was threatened by a patron one night and had to be walked to my car. These are just the facts. I've had friends with similar experiences further east towards DB (including a mugging near there). So when I say "This area is safer than that area," its not because "OMG black people!" Really low blow dude. KMA

You have to realize that you are walking a tight line in this sort of conversation. There's a difference between "hey that area is objectively unsafe" and "it's weird." Was your comment in a vacuum necessarily over the line? Probably not. However, the conversation as a whole had (in my opinion) a distinct racial undertone, so I don't really think I was that far off base. Some of the language certain people have used has left me to wonder if they are simply using the perceived racial makeup of an area as a proxy for violence, and some of it has been...less than subtle (See: comment about "blending in"). Nonetheless, it was unfair of me to call you out for it specifically; I apologize.

#1: what a lawyerly, half-assed, hedging apology. No need for the off-base preamble to why you were completely wrong.

2#: knowing most of the people IRL who were making the comments you were referring to, I guarantee you your mind was the first one to go to race in this conversation. "Blending in" is a race neutral term, and you had to work pretty hard to steer this convo off track.

[sublime]

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[Cellar-door]

So anyone currently living in STL have an opinion on Downtown... particularly with regard to the Washington Ave Loft area? (say between Broadway and 18th?) When I was in town I checked it out, and it seemed like a nice urban revitalization area, cool stuff going on, good police presence etc. Of course it did look like things started to fall off pretty hard only a few blocks away. (also my cab driver said he thought it was a better place to live than the CWE because of the big-time police presence)

[wannabelawstudent]

Romo your post just traumatized me. I'm scared now.

[DoveBodyWash]

Romo your post just traumatized me. I'm scared now.

CWE or gtfo