Columbia students taking questions Forum

[almondjoy]

Hey, for any current students looking for that 2014 EIP data, it's now available online here: https://web.law.columbia.edu/sites/defa ... esults.pdf

That might be login protected, if so go here first: https://web.law.columbia.edu/career-ser ... ograms/eip

thanks!

also a note to any 1Ls who feel these numbers just "aren't adding up": afaik these numbers only refer to individuals who accepted an offer from a firm they took a screener interview with at EIP. A non-negligible number of students obtained and accepted offers outside of EIP this year. there are 2Ls summering at a number of the firms listed as "0" offers accepted, and more students going to firms like skadden than the offer accepted figures reflect. This list also obviously excludes firms that don't participate in EIP like quinn emanuel and offices of firms that didn't directly recruit at EIP. Overall it's great data but very much an incomplete picture of the overall success and summer placement of c/o 2016

Any idea where to find the honors/offers breakdown? Can't seem to find it anywhere.

[jbagelboy]

Hey, for any current students looking for that 2014 EIP data, it's now available online here: https://web.law.columbia.edu/sites/defa ... esults.pdf

That might be login protected, if so go here first: https://web.law.columbia.edu/career-ser ... ograms/eip

thanks!

also a note to any 1Ls who feel these numbers just "aren't adding up": afaik these numbers only refer to individuals who accepted an offer from a firm they took a screener interview with at EIP. A non-negligible number of students obtained and accepted offers outside of EIP this year. there are 2Ls summering at a number of the firms listed as "0" offers accepted, and more students going to firms like skadden than the offer accepted figures reflect. This list also obviously excludes firms that don't participate in EIP like quinn emanuel and offices of firms that didn't directly recruit at EIP. Overall it's great data but very much an incomplete picture of the overall success and summer placement of c/o 2016

Any idea where to find the honors/offers breakdown? Can't seem to find it anywhere.

if memory serves, they don't provide that information until after spring grades are released in june. god knows why...

[RSN]

0L with an EIP question. What accounts for the huge difference for some firms between the number of bids and number of interviews? I understand the number of interviews can exceed the number of bids if people pick up extra firms when they have free slots, but what happens with a firm like Cooley NY, just to grab an example from the sheet, that had 108 bids but only 35 interviews?

[Tiago Splitter]

0L with an EIP question. What accounts for the huge difference for some firms between the number of bids and number of interviews? I understand the number of interviews can exceed the number of bids if people pick up extra firms when they have free slots, but what happens with a firm like Cooley NY, just to grab an example from the sheet, that had 108 bids but only 35 interviews?

It means that 73 people bid on Cooley NY but did not get an interview there. In a situation like that it would be a waste to put Cooley NY somewhere like number 20 on your 30-firm bidlist. You'd want to either put it up high or not put it at all.

[RSN]

0L with an EIP question. What accounts for the huge difference for some firms between the number of bids and number of interviews? I understand the number of interviews can exceed the number of bids if people pick up extra firms when they have free slots, but what happens with a firm like Cooley NY, just to grab an example from the sheet, that had 108 bids but only 35 interviews?

It means that 73 people bid on Cooley NY but did not get an interview there. In a situation like that it would be a waste to put Cooley NY somewhere like number 20 on your 30-firm bidlist. You'd want to either put it up high or not put it at all.

I think my question is actually about the process of getting interviews. Does the firm get all the resumes/transcripts of people who bid them, and how high, and decide based on that which of those they want to interview? Or is it done by Career Services with an algorithm or something, and the higher you bid a firm, the more likely you are to get an interview, based on a set number of people the firm wants to talk to?

[Tiago Splitter]

It's a blind lottery. Firms don't have any input into who they interview. Each firm buys up a certain number of interview suites and in a typical day each suite does 20 interviews (Cooley NY at 35 was kind of odd but same idea.) So if a firm buys 5 suites they'll have 100 interviews, and CSO will give an interview to everyone who bid the firm first, then everyone who bid it second, then third, etc until they've got 100 interviews. When you go through OCI you'll get a "first failed bid" report showing the lowest bid number that failed to land an interview with each specific office.

[J90]

0L with an EIP question. What accounts for the huge difference for some firms between the number of bids and number of interviews? I understand the number of interviews can exceed the number of bids if people pick up extra firms when they have free slots, but what happens with a firm like Cooley NY, just to grab an example from the sheet, that had 108 bids but only 35 interviews?

It means that 73 people bid on Cooley NY but did not get an interview there. In a situation like that it would be a waste to put Cooley NY somewhere like number 20 on your 30-firm bidlist. You'd want to either put it up high or not put it at all.

I think my question is actually about the process of getting interviews. Does the firm get all the resumes/transcripts of people who bid them, and how high, and decide based on that which of those they want to interview? Or is it done by Career Services with an algorithm or something, and the higher you bid a firm, the more likely you are to get an interview, based on a set number of people the firm wants to talk to?

It's an algorithm. They give all the people who bid Cooley NY first the interview, then move to all those who bid it second, then third, etc. until they run out. If it runs out midway through a certain bid, then it goes by lottery.

Firms have no input over which screeners you get. You could be ranked last in the class and get a Wachtell screener. That said, you'd have wasted a bid because they'll never give you a callback.

The firms that you need to bid first/very high are the ones that will extend offers to good portion of the class (Proskauer over SullCrom) and have less interview spots than others (Proskauer might be a great firm that takes a lot of people, but they only have 80 interview slots versus Davis Polk's 240, etc.). I don't know what the actual numbers are, but pretend the above are true, they're just to illustrate a point.

[RSN]

Thanks guys, appreciate the insight.

ETA: Actually, another question -- what's the process liking for building your bid list? Do you do a first draft and submit it to Career Services for review, and then they offer suggestions/recommendations based on your grades and ties?

[smaug]

Thanks guys, appreciate the insight.

ETA: Actually, another question -- what's the process liking for building your bid list? Do you do a first draft and submit it to Career Services for review, and then they offer suggestions/recommendations based on your grades and ties?

career services is incompetent

talk to 2Ls/3Ls—they'll be more helpful

[MCFC]

...

[RSN]

Thanks again. Was more asking if they require everyone to have their bid list approved, which I think I remember reading is the case at some other schools, but it sounds like that's not true at CLS, which is a relief because that sounds like a huge pain in the ass.

[MCFC]

Thanks again. Was more asking if they require everyone to have their bid list approved, which I think I remember reading is the case at some other schools, but it sounds like that's not true at CLS, which is a relief because that sounds like a huge pain in the ass.

Right, the final decisions as to where to bid are yours.

They do do the sort of things you are talking about with resumes though. Has to conform to their specifications before they let you go ahead.

[kakistocracy]

Thanks guys, appreciate the insight.

ETA: Actually, another question -- what's the process liking for building your bid list? Do you do a first draft and submit it to Career Services for review, and then they offer suggestions/recommendations based on your grades and ties?

career services is incompetent

talk to 2Ls/3Ls—they'll be more helpful

Can't overstate how incompetent career services is. ex: they told people usually only Kent students bid California, not to use all your bids, etc. Really take everything they say with a grain of salt.

[RSN]

Thanks guys, appreciate the insight.

ETA: Actually, another question -- what's the process liking for building your bid list? Do you do a first draft and submit it to Career Services for review, and then they offer suggestions/recommendations based on your grades and ties?

career services is incompetent

talk to 2Ls/3Ls—they'll be more helpful

Can't overstate how incompetent career services is. ex: they told people usually only Kent students bid California, not to use all your bids, etc. Really take everything they say with a grain of salt.

Good to know. A little frustrating as a likely incoming 0L to hear how incompetent and useless the administration is, essentially top to bottom, but nice to know that the student body makes up for it in terms of helpfulness.

[jbagelboy]

Good to know. A little frustrating as a likely incoming 0L to hear how incompetent and useless the administration is, essentially top to bottom, but nice to know that the student body makes up for it in terms of helpfulness.

I empathize, but at the same time, this is a very low consideration when actually choosing the schools. Why? Because all law school administrations - or practically all - fail in significant ways to deliver the optimal product to students. Here on TLS, we are honest about it, and anyone telling you otherwise at an admitted student day function at any law school is selling you a bill of goods. They spend ludicrous amounts of money to employ somewhat incompetent individuals to perform rather unnecessary tasks.

Also, while OCS may be particularly egregious, on the whole the administration works more or less as it's supposed to. It's not a dysfunctional school (most of the time), there are just small inconveniences here and there. The administration and student services, as much as they are mocked, do try to improve the student experience and help us raise and spend money on student organizations, events, activities, ect. They just do it in absurd and counter-productive ways.

And of course the upper year student body is truly a wonderful resource.

[RSN]

I wasn't saying it's dysfunctional -- obviously what needs to get done gets done, and I have no reason to doubt they're adequately supportive of student orgs. But the amount of criticism and frustration you hear about the administration (from the handful of current students and alums I've talked to, as well as users here) seems to surpass peer schools, although it's certainly more about bureaucracy and red tape than substantive issues like the quality of advising.

Look, I'm not choosing schools based on that point, and I'm almost definitely there in the fall and excited about it for a whole bunch of reasons. But of the schools I applied to, only one had their acceptance packet get lost in the mail, and then fail to get it to me a second time after I asked them about it at admitted students days. It's not a deal-breaker to be sure (especially because I know you deal with admissions precisely zero times after matriculating), but I don't think my skepticism going in is undeserved.

[jbagelboy]

I wasn't saying it's dysfunctional -- obviously what needs to get done gets done, and I have no reason to doubt they're adequately supportive of student orgs. But the amount of criticism and frustration you hear about the administration (from the handful of current students and alums I've talked to, as well as users here) seems to surpass peer schools, although it's certainly more about bureaucracy and red tape than substantive issues like the quality of advising.

Look, I'm not choosing schools based on that point, and I'm almost definitely there in the fall and excited about it for a whole bunch of reasons. But of the schools I applied to, only one had their acceptance packet get lost in the mail, and then fail to get it to me a second time after I asked them about it at admitted students days. It's not a deal-breaker to be sure (especially because I know you deal with admissions precisely zero times after matriculating), but I don't think my skepticism going in is undeserved.

lol. fair.

[Nebby]

SJI is a pretty good office.

[Tiago Splitter]

I think CSO is more "hit or miss" than totally incompetent. Just double check their advice with TLS. Or just use TLS/upperclassmen.

[Nebby]

TLS is 10x more competent than CSO.

[Tiago Splitter]

TBF I've never once interacted with CSO or any other admin group really but I've heard decent things from time to time.

[jbagelboy]

TBF I've never once interacted with CSO or any other admin group really but I've heard decent things from time to time.

in nearly three years, how is this possible?

[lunaraeon]

I think CSO is more "hit or miss" than totally incompetent. Just double check their advice with TLS. Or just use TLS/upperclassmen.

Agreed. I talked to the same OCS counselor from 1L through EIP and she gave great, balanced advice. But, that isn't true for everyone.

One thing I cannot stress enough though: take bidding (sort of) seriously when it comes to late summer or whenever. You've been working hard all of 1L, and if you're doing EIP it's probably at least partially to get a firm job. Take a few hours to make sure you know how the algorithm works, what the data from past years means, and don't just prepare it haphazardly.

[Nebby]

TBF I've never once interacted with CSO or any other admin group really but I've heard decent things from time to time.

in nearly three years, how is this possible?

He has google and TLS.

[lunaraeon]

TBF I've never once interacted with CSO or any other admin group really but I've heard decent things from time to time.

in nearly three years, how is this possible?

Damn bagel when did you get to 6000+ posts.