Cornell 1L taking questions Forum

[FlanAl]

haha well I definitely take too many TLS breaks I'm going to try and not go on at all from now until the memo is handed in.

[Ikki]

A friend (yes, a friend) had a meeting with DeRosa today and he asked him about the 85% figure. Apparently they are predicting that for us because that's the percentage of 2Ls this year that got an offer from OCI. I'm not sure if he meant 85% of all 2Ls or just those 2Ls that did OCI. DeRosa also said that aside from what was said on Tuesday, he personally believes we will be the first class to see pre-recession numbers.

DeRosa is useless. Speak to anyone from the Forgotten Class of 2011 and you'll hear horror stories. Don't believe anything he says in re: employment unless he shows you actual numbers and the information supporting them.

I didn't believe him honestly, I've hear some horror stories about awful advice from the OCS that didn't help the situation of some of the students of the 2010 class. I guess it will still be median or dropping out.

He basically told me I'll have no issue getting a judicial internship this summer, don't know what to make of that.

I thought it was common knowledge that in theory we could all get a judicial internship. Now getting the 1L SI is going to be pretty tough, the 12% figure (it was 12% right?) is probably mostly URMs.

Did that resume/cover letter talk help out at all? I had a meeting with my Lawyering professor so I couldn't make it.

[orderofthings]

Although not necessarily true for every judge, I have gotten the feeling from 2L's and this site that internships with judges for 1L summers aren't too competitive. It's more about getting your apps out early to where you want to work, it's not like they're paying you or anything. If you can't take 20 minutes to have someone look over your resume and cover letters you're doing it wrong.

Regarding the resume/cover letter talk. Short answer: no. Slightly less short answer: if you want to have someone look at your resume you can just email it to career services.

[Arbiter213]

Although not necessarily true for every judge, I have gotten the feeling from 2L's and this site that internships with judges for 1L summers aren't too competitive. It's more about getting your apps out early to where you want to work, it's not like they're paying you or anything. If you can't take 20 minutes to have someone look over your resume and cover letters you're doing it wrong.

Regarding the resume/cover letter talk. Short answer: no. Slightly less short answer: if you want to have someone look at your resume you can just email it to career services.

Super credited. If you go in person they give you more feedback initially. Dean Derossa's comments were substantially more useful than Lynsdsay's first comments. I'm gonna make the revisions and send it back to her to see the difference.

[als2011]

First, I'm curious about the general mood on campus amongst law students regarding employment. Are people getting the sense that things are improving or are they as pessimistic as ever? From what I understand, the class of 2011 had a horrible year. Exactly how bad/what does that mean numerically. Any clear numbers on the percent that (1) found employment, (2) found employment that actually requires a JD, (3) found full time employment rather than part time or temp work. Finally, keenly aware that only about 50% get biglaw on a good year (perhaps another 5-8% find themselves in judicial clerkship), what happens to the remaining students. Where do they typically find employment, what sorts of salaries can they expect, and so forth.

[johansantana21]

First, I'm curious about the general mood on campus amongst law students regarding employment. Are people getting the sense that things are improving or are they as pessimistic as ever? From what I understand, the class of 2011 had a horrible year. Exactly how bad/what does that mean numerically. Any clear numbers on the percent that (1) found employment, (2) found employment that actually requires a JD, (3) found full time employment rather than part time or temp work. Finally, keenly aware that only about 50% get biglaw on a good year (perhaps another 5-8% find themselves in judicial clerkship), what happens to the remaining students. Where do they typically find employment, what sorts of salaries can they expect, and so forth.

lawschooltransparency.com

A school employee did say 85% of Cornell 2L's summer at a "big" firm, but I think he meant a firm with 50+ people, not a NLJ250 firm.

[fsohn]

First, I'm curious about the general mood on campus amongst law students regarding employment. Are people getting the sense that things are improving or are they as pessimistic as ever? From what I understand, the class of 2011 had a horrible year. Exactly how bad/what does that mean numerically. Any clear numbers on the percent that (1) found employment, (2) found employment that actually requires a JD, (3) found full time employment rather than part time or temp work. Finally, keenly aware that only about 50% get biglaw on a good year (perhaps another 5-8% find themselves in judicial clerkship), what happens to the remaining students. Where do they typically find employment, what sorts of salaries can they expect, and so forth.

They are typically completely fucked. The only benefit of going to a T14 is getting a job through the traditional OCI process. If that fails, you are no better than anyone at any other school -- an overeducated, largely useless person with no skills.

[als2011]

Yes, I'm familiar with lawschooltransparency. They do not have the latest stats for 2011 or even 2010 yet. I commend LST for what they are attempting to do, but there are limitations on their ability to acquire and print data.

I am asking current 1/2/3/Ls about their experiences precisely because any concrete information about the realities of legal employment for any given school are very difficult to come by. I am curious if the school is being more open to current students (for example, circulating statistical breakdowns of class of 2010/2011 employment), but from what I've been reading on the forums, it appears that this is not the case. If you have such info and are willing to share it, you can PM me if you don't wish to post it on TLS.

Alternatively, if you have anecdotes that you feel encapsulate the realities of employment for grads coming out of Cornell, I'd appreciate that as well.

[KMaine]

Actually, there was a leak to ATL that gives a pretty good idea about how the classes of 2010 and 2011 fared in finding employment with big firms. The numbers aren't perfect (because it was a list generated in response to a "mentor list" request), but it gives a pretty good idea as to how many of the class of 2011 had summer employment and how many of the class of 2010 landed permanent jobs (if I recall correctly). There was alot of discussion of the leak here on TLS, and you may still be able to find it on ATL.

[Ikki]

Actually, there was a leak to ATL that gives a pretty good idea about how the classes of 2010 and 2011 fared in finding employment with big firms. The numbers aren't perfect (because it was a list generated in response to a "mentor list" request), but it gives a pretty good idea as to how many of the class of 2011 had summer employment and how many of the class of 2010 landed permanent jobs (if I recall correctly). There was alot of discussion of the leak here on TLS, and you may still be able to find it on ATL.

Here's the thread KMaine is referring to if anyone's interested.

http://www.top-law-schools.com/forums/v ... 3&t=148674

ETA: This thread is also useful:

http://www.top-law-schools.com/forums/v ... 1&t=150004

[Ostrizr316]

I thought it was common knowledge that in theory we could all get a judicial internship. Now getting the 1L SI is going to be pretty tough, the 12% figure (it was 12% right?) is probably mostly URMs.

I'm surprised that the 1Ls on this form think that summer internships fall into two categories: either 1L Summer Associates or Judicial Internships. You guys are forgetting a KEY middle category-Public Interest Internships. Remember, pretty much any legal internship with a government entity, including DOJ and a USAO, is a public interest position. This means that you're eligible for the $4000 PIF grant. Believe me, making $4k over the summer instead of paying $4k over the summer to take credits for a judicial internship can make a huge difference.

First, I'm curious about the general mood on campus amongst law students regarding employment. Are people getting the sense that things are improving or are they as pessimistic as ever? From what I understand, the class of 2011 had a horrible year. Exactly how bad/what does that mean numerically. Any clear numbers on the percent that (1) found employment, (2) found employment that actually requires a JD, (3) found full time employment rather than part time or temp work. Finally, keenly aware that only about 50% get biglaw on a good year (perhaps another 5-8% find themselves in judicial clerkship), what happens to the remaining students. Where do they typically find employment, what sorts of salaries can they expect, and so forth.

I can't tell if this is blatant trolling or if this person just hasn't read the last 3 pages of posts.

[Arbiter213]

Wait, we have to pay to get credits for the judicial internship? Motherfucker.

I wanted to do one, I like so close to a federal courthouse...

[Ikki]

Whaaaaaat?? Not only will I not get paid for the judicial internship, but I need to pay to get it?

[CyLaw]

Whaaaaaat?? Not only will I not get paid for the judicial internship, but I need to pay to get it?

if you want class credit for it. You don't have to pay if you don't want the class credit. And you can't get paid by PIF funds. You can look for outside funding though.

[Arbiter213]

Whaaaaaat?? Not only will I not get paid for the judicial internship, but I need to pay to get it?

if you want class credit for it. You don't have to pay if you don't want the class credit. And you can't get paid by PIF funds. You can look for outside funding though.

Knew about PIF- I'm planning to look around at PI stuff and US Attorney's offices but also apply to the Federal courts that are easily commutable from my house via train.

[CyLaw]

Other good sources for 1L positions are state agencies and the variety of Federal Honors/Intern programs. If you have a interest in a particular substantive area, look to the state/federal agency that handles that area and see what summer programs they have. They may even pay.

[PinkCow]

Can any 2L/3L talk about the summer Paris program? It looks attractive, and of course the Career Office dresses it up saying it won't negatively impact our 2L job search, but I was curious what the real story is.

Worth it?

Awesome?

Suicide?

[Arbiter213]

Can any 2L/3L talk about the summer Paris program? It looks attractive, and of course the Career Office dresses it up saying it won't negatively impact our 2L job search, but I was curious what the real story is.

Worth it?

Awesome?

Suicide?

You have the extra $40k?

[PinkCow]

Can any 2L/3L talk about the summer Paris program? It looks attractive, and of course the Career Office dresses it up saying it won't negatively impact our 2L job search, but I was curious what the real story is.

Worth it?

Awesome?

Suicide?

You have the extra $40k?

No. I was hoping that once I get so much negative moneys it just resets...

[johansantana21]

Can any 2L/3L talk about the summer Paris program? It looks attractive, and of course the Career Office dresses it up saying it won't negatively impact our 2L job search, but I was curious what the real story is.

Worth it?

Awesome?

Suicide?

You have the extra $40k?

I'm starting to like you.

[LSHopeful91]

How many LOR would an admitted student recommend for applications?

[johansantana21]

2

[Arbiter213]

It is getting very hard to get up each day... need more sleep.

[Ikki]

It is getting very hard to get up each day... need more sleep.

+1
Weird that I feel the same way, but it has nothing to do with the memo. It's just becoming a bitch to wake up early.

[FlanAl]

any 2L's have a Holden-Smith outline they'd care to share? I'd really appreciate it!