Drexel Law Assistant Dean here to answer questions! Forum

[tram988]

I guess that's a no go on a real answer from Drexel. Oh well. This could have been informative.

Yeah I'm surprised...

[reasonable_man]

I guess that's a no go on a real answer from Drexel. Oh well. This could have been informative.

Yeah I'm surprised...

Its easy to spin when real questions are not asked. Not so easy when you're asked for hard-core specifics. - Good 'Real Life' lawyering 101 At the end of the day, I give them a great deal of credit for coming on here and exposing the school to idiots like me. It just would have been nice if they had intentions of granting real access to important information.

[disciullo]

Greetings from Drexel! I hope this note finds everyone well.

Before the holidays, I received questions on career placement and salary information. I apologize for the delay in posting this response. The Office of Career and Professional Development was still gathering information at that time. Here is what they have gathered thus far.

As always, don't hesitate to visit their site for more information or to contact their office for specific questions/concerns.

--LinkRemoved--

Thanks!

-Issa


Employment Statistics on the Inaugural Class: Class of 2009
(Updated January 6, 2010)

• Total 2009 graduates: 159

Number of 2009 Graduates:
• In full-time legal jobs (includes attorney positions, as well as post-grad law clerks and contract attorneys working full-time): 96
• In part-time legal jobs: 8
• In non-legal jobs (full-time or part-time) (includes legal assistants and paralegals, as well as jobs outside the legal profession): 16
• Enrolled in full-time LLM programs: 5
• Unemployed and seeking work: 21
• Whose status is unknown: 12
• Not seeking work: 1

Percentages:
• Number of Students Working in Legal Jobs (Full-Time or Part-Time) Plus LLMs Divided By Number of Students Whose Status is Known/ Those Not Seeking Work = 110/146 = 75.34%

• Number of Students Working in Any Capacity Divided by Those Whose Status is Known (NALP reporting formula) = 121/147 = 82.31%




For those members of the inaugural Class of 2009 who are working in full-time jobs or clerkships, the following is a list of their employers, along with salary range information:

Federal Clerkships (Salary = approximately $60,000)
Hon. Robert B. Kugler, Federal District Judge, D. New Jersey
Hon. Timothy R. Rice, U.S. Magistrate Judge, E.D. Pennsylvania (to begin Sept 2010)
Hon. Sue L. Robinson, Federal District Judge, D. Del.
Hon. Joseph H. Rodriguez, Federal District Judge, D. New Jersey
Hon. Victor J. Wolski, U.S. Court of Federal Claims

State Clerkships (Salary = approximately $32,000 - $48,000)
Hon. Robert P. Becker, NJ Superior Court
Hon. Mark I. Bernstein, PA Court of Common Pleas
Hon. Gwendolyn Blue, NJ Superior Court
Hon. Charles W. Dortch, NJ Superior Court
Hon. Nan Famular, NJ Superior Court
Hon. Linda Feinberg, NJ Superior Court
Hon. Richard Hoffman, NJ Superior Court
Hon. Pedro J. Jimenez, Jr., NJ Superior Court
Hon. Colleen Maier, NJ Superior Court
Hon. Louis R. Meloni, NJ Superior Court
Hon. Frank Palumbo, PA Court of Common Pleas
Hon. Julie Stevenson Solt, MD Circuit Court
Hon. Joseph P. Testa, NJ Superior Court
Hon. Gary D. Wodlinger, NJ Superior Court

Government & Public Interest (Salary = approximately $31,000 -- $60,000)
Bucks County District Attorney’s Office
Defender Association of Philadelphia
Delaware Attorney General’s Office
Delaware County District Attorney’s Office
Lancaster County District Attorney’s Office
Manhattan District Attorney’s Office
Maryland Legal Aid Bureau
Miami Public Defender’s Office
North Penn Legal Services
PA Bar Association, Pro Bono Office
U.S. Air Force JAG Corps
U.S. Army JAG Corps (students to begin working after LLM and/or delayed start date)
U.S. Dept of Health & Human Services, Office of Civil Rights
U.S. VA Medical Center


Large or Medium-Sized Law Firms (Salary = approximately $80,000 - $145,000)
Archer & Greiner, PC
Ballard Spahr Andrews & Ingersoll, LLP (students to begin working after deferral and/or judicial clerkship)
Blank Rome (student to begin working after judicial clerkship)
Buchanan Ingersoll & Rooney, PC (student to begin working after deferral)
Conrad O'Brien Gellman & Rohn, PC
Dickie McCamey
Dilworth Paxson, LLP
Duane Morris, LLP
Eckert Seamans Cherin & Mellott, LLC
Lavin, O’Neil, Ricci, Cedrone & DiSipio
Marshall, Dennehey, Warner, Coleman & Goggin
Nixon Peabody, LLP (Wash. D.C.) (student to begin working after deferral)
Pepper Hamilton, LLP (student to begin working after deferral)
Post & Schell
Saul Ewing, LLP (student to begin working after deferral)
Schnader Harrison Segal & Lewis, LLP (student to begin working after deferral)
Wilentz Goldman & Spitzer, PA

Mid-Sized and Small Law Firms (Salary = approximately $40,000 - $90,000)
Law Offices of Hal Barrow
Bazil McNulty
Borjeson & Maizel, LLC
Ciardi Ciardi & Astin
Eastburn & Gray, PC
Fisher & Zucker, LLC
Fredric Marro & Associates
Goldberg & Beyer
Hudson Jones Jaywork & Fisher
Law Offices of Christopher B. Jones
Layser and Freiwald, PC
Kent McBride, PC
Klasko Rulon Stock & Seltzer
Mintzer Sarowitz Zeris Ledva & Meyers
Muskin and Cusick, LLC
Nash Law Firm, LLC
Ratner Prestia (student to begin working after judicial clerkship)
Rubin Fortunato
Saltz, Mongeluzzi, Barrett & Bendesky, P.C
Schubert Bellwoar Cahill & Quinn, PC
Schultz Law, LLC
Shemtob Law, PC
Siciliano & Associates, LLC
Law Offices of Eric A. Shore, PC
Wade Goldstein Landau & Abruzzo
Weitz Garfinkle Datz, LLC
Wilcox Zuk Chovin Law Office (Prince Albert, Canada)
Yukevich Marchetti Liekar & Zangrilli

Corporations (Salary = unknown)
Amerisource Bergen Co.
Deloitte, LLP
Lyondell Chemical Co.
Magnesita Refractories Company
Pennsylvania Trust Company
Rembrandt IP Management
RGK Entertainment Group, Inc.

Solo Practice

Andrew W. Cole, P.C.
Bourland Adler
Law Office of Michael Lee
Law Office of Eric Marseglia

[reasonable_man]

Sadly, still missing is the mean average for starting salaries of all 09' grads. Oh well.

[Mulliganstew]

Sadly, still missing is the mean average for starting salaries of all 09' grads. Oh well.

Still, that's pretty decent for their first year considering much more established schools in the area are doing much worse as far as employment statistics go.

[beach_terror]

Yeah, I thought they'd do much worse. Drexel is very respected as a UG/medical school in Philadelphia, I suppose it's not surprising that employers decided to give the law students a chance.

[reasonable_man]

I would still be more impressed if they would simply release some actual real numbers. Why not put an actual real mean out there? Be the first.

[Aberzombie1892]

I would still be more impressed if they would simply release some actual real numbers. Why not put an actual real mean out there? Be the first.

Well it is February, so hopefully potential students will have information soon:

Once again, I thank everyone for all the comments and questions...As a follow-up to the median salary question, we report those figures officially in February.

[reasonable_man]

I would still be more impressed if they would simply release some actual real numbers. Why not put an actual real mean out there? Be the first.

Well it is February, so hopefully potential students will have information soon:

Once again, I thank everyone for all the comments and questions...As a follow-up to the median salary question, we report those figures officially in February.

MEDIANS TELL US NOTHING. MEAN AVERAGES ARE PROBATIVE.

[Zojirushi]

I would still be more impressed if they would simply release some actual real numbers. Why not put an actual real mean out there? Be the first.

Well it is February, so hopefully potential students will have information soon:

Once again, I thank everyone for all the comments and questions...As a follow-up to the median salary question, we report those figures officially in February.

MEDIANS TELL US NOTHING. MEAN AVERAGES ARE PROBATIVE.

Thanks reasonable_man, I think you made your point. No need to be obnoxious.

[reasonable_man]

I don't think I have. I don't think the question has even been addressed. There is obviously a reason why the mean average won't be released. I think that consumers have a right to know the answer to that question.

And as an aside, I'm capable of determining when I am being too obnoxious. Thanks.

[Mulliganstew]

I don't think I have. I don't think the question has even been addressed. There is obviously a reason why the mean average won't be released. I think that consumers have a right to know the answer to that question.

And as an aside, I'm capable of determining when I am being too obnoxious. Thanks.

Not sure you are capable, man. ALL CAPS IS NOT PROFESSIONAL OR HELPFUL.

[beach_terror]

Not sure you are capable, man. ALL CAPS IS NOT PROFESSIONAL OR HELPFUL.

+1

[Panther7]

I don't think I have. I don't think the question has even been addressed. There is obviously a reason why the mean average won't be released. I think that consumers have a right to know the answer to that question.

And as an aside, I'm capable of determining when I am being too obnoxious. Thanks.

The guy clearly sidestepped the question, you called him on it, he gave more information than most schools give out, and you're still calling him on it. I don't mean to be a dick, but he's gone further than 90% of schools out there, not to mention the fact HE is reaching out to US. No need to make him regret that.

You've made your point, everyone who reads this thread will see it. Don't need to take out your anger at the system on a guy who's simply trying to help us.

[lxhalx19]

Isn't the median the most appropriate number to give out?

A mean can be skewed by outliers. If you have 100 students reporting their salary and one has an abnormally high or low salary. It could give the impression that recent graduates are making more or less then they actually are. The median simply gives the middle number. Outliers will not move the middle number up or down. Half of the salaries will be lower then the median, half of the salaries will be higher then the median. Perhaps the mode may be helpful because then we could see what salary occurred most frequently for recent graduates. But on the whole, it seems pretty ridiculous for a law school graduate to spend so much time worrying about what mathematical function is most appropriately applied to a data set about recent graduates of one law school.

P.S. I have provided a link below so that you can put a stop to all these ridiculous reporting figures:
--LinkRemoved--

[baboon309]

Darn! I love Drexel now lol!

[PoliticalJunkie]

after getting accepted today and seeing this thread, I have to think about Drexel a bit more now...... very interesting since I lived in Phil for 5 years and loved it.

[ilovefishing]

Hi,

I was wondering if Drexel offered any financial help for accepted students who wanted to visit.

Thanks

[Doritos]

Isn't the median the most appropriate number to give out?

A mean can be skewed by outliers. If you have 100 students reporting their salary and one has an abnormally high or low salary. It could give the impression that recent graduates are making more or less then they actually are. The median simply gives the middle number. Outliers will not move the middle number up or down. Half of the salaries will be lower then the median, half of the salaries will be higher then the median. Perhaps the mode may be helpful because then we could see what salary occurred most frequently for recent graduates. But on the whole, it seems pretty ridiculous for a law school graduate to spend so much time worrying about what mathematical function is most appropriately applied to a data set about recent graduates of one law school.

P.S. I have provided a link below so that you can put a stop to all these ridiculous reporting figures:
--LinkRemoved--

I was thinking the same thing. How do means tell us more than medians? I think the real kicker here is % of the class reporting. That seems to be where the data gets skewed the most

edit: It seems that the data Mr. Drexel law guy is putting out is legit. Only 12 out of 159 not reporting? That's pretty damn impressive. I could be wrong because I'm not a numbers guy (hence law school) but what is deficient in the data we are being presented here? I mean they are still compiling the median salary info but once we get that what's left?

[Zojirushi]

I was thinking the same thing. How do means tell us more than medians? I think the real kicker here is % of the class reporting. That seems to be where the data gets skewed the most

edit: It seems that the data Mr. Drexel law guy is putting out is legit. Only 12 out of 159 not reporting? That's pretty damn impressive. I could be wrong because I'm not a numbers guy (hence law school) but what is deficient in the data we are being presented here? I mean they are still compiling the median salary info but once we get that what's left?

The following example stolen from http://www.darwinsfinance.com/median-mean-definition/:

You live in a town of 1000 residents who are all earning roughly $80,000 per year.
To keep it simple, the median and the mean are roughly $80,000 give or take.
Your town is real nice and reminds Warren Buffet of his childhood. He decides to move in.
He takes in $1Billion this year.
While the median income for the town remains at $80,000 (because the middle number is still $80,000 as are the other 999, there is only one outlier making a billion), the arithmetic mean income for the town is 1.08 Million Dollars!

So, Money Magazine (or whatever your favorite finance mag is) runs one of their usual stories about “the country’s richest towns”, etc. and utilizes data mining software to crunch some numbers which reveals that the mean or what they consider “average” income is over $1Million per year. They conduct no actual investigative research before running with it. They dub your town, “The Town of Millionaires” and runs this amazing story about how all these millionaires live in typical looking homes. They’re a real frugal bunch, look how much they make compared to the lifestyle they lead! What an example for America!

If only they looked at the data and considered the median and the mean and tried to understand the difference.

[Doritos]

I was thinking the same thing. How do means tell us more than medians? I think the real kicker here is % of the class reporting. That seems to be where the data gets skewed the most

edit: It seems that the data Mr. Drexel law guy is putting out is legit. Only 12 out of 159 not reporting? That's pretty damn impressive. I could be wrong because I'm not a numbers guy (hence law school) but what is deficient in the data we are being presented here? I mean they are still compiling the median salary info but once we get that what's left?

The following example stolen from http://www.darwinsfinance.com/median-mean-definition/:

You live in a town of 1000 residents who are all earning roughly $80,000 per year.
To keep it simple, the median and the mean are roughly $80,000 give or take.
Your town is real nice and reminds Warren Buffet of his childhood. He decides to move in.
He takes in $1Billion this year.
While the median income for the town remains at $80,000 (because the middle number is still $80,000 as are the other 999, there is only one outlier making a billion), the arithmetic mean income for the town is 1.08 Million Dollars!

So, Money Magazine (or whatever your favorite finance mag is) runs one of their usual stories about “the country’s richest towns”, etc. and utilizes data mining software to crunch some numbers which reveals that the mean or what they consider “average” income is over $1Million per year. They conduct no actual investigative research before running with it. They dub your town, “The Town of Millionaires” and runs this amazing story about how all these millionaires live in typical looking homes. They’re a real frugal bunch, look how much they make compared to the lifestyle they lead! What an example for America!

If only they looked at the data and considered the median and the mean and tried to understand the difference.

Yeah I agree. Your example shows why medians tell us more about the data than mean. That is what I am saying. ReasonableMan is asking for the mean and I am not sure why since it seems to me that medians tell us more about the typical starting salary. RM is a smart dude so I'm sure he has a reason but I am just failing to see what it is.

[roecyris]

Not sure if the Drexel Law Assistant Dean is still reading this thread but just in case...

I have applied to a solid group of law schools and as I'm waiting for the responses to start trickeling back in I'm reading this thread, remembering my short discussion with Grant at the D.C. Law Forum and starting to think I should have given Drexel more of a shot. Just noticing how many of your students do receive financial help (according to U.S. News) and your growing reputation in Philly (I'll take people's word on that) I really am interested in submitting an application. Given how late it is in the cycle, is it still worth it to apply? My guess would be that you would say "yes, of course," but knowing that the realistic chance at many schools would have evaporated by this point, can the same be said for Drexel?

Thank you so much for taking the time out to come on to the forum ... sorry about the not so reasonable people.

[disciullo]

Greetings from snowy Philadelaphia! Happy to see that this thread is still getting some good discussion.

As for the application process, we are truly a rolling admission schools, so it's definitely not too late to apply. We will still give your application full consideration. However, I would encourage you to get your application in as soon as possible, though because while there is still room in the class, scholarship monies are going fast!

I hope this helps! Don't hesitate to contact me with other questions.

Sincerely,

Issa

[pantherfan]

Thanks for taking time to answer questions.

What would you say is Drexel's portability outside of the Philly area?

I'm not even talking about nationally, but in regards to central and western PA, and how your graduates are comparing versus Pitt, Penn State, Duquesne grads in Harrisburg, Pittsburgh, Erie etc. Thanks.

[UnbornWidow]

Is this article true?
http://philadelphia.bizjournals.com/phi ... 00^2907431