Columbia Student Taking Questions Forum

[galba]

Clerkships are harder to get, some of the boutiques won't even look at you, our grading system and honors system is a mess. Overall way more good than bad, but something to keep in mind.

What boutiques don't hire from CLS? Just wondering, surprises me

W&C isn't really a boutique per se, but they hired something like 4 times as many HLS grads as CLS ones. There are others like Consovoy McCarthy and Cooper & Kirk that don't recruit CLS people at all. Again, it's a very small set of firms, and it affects maybe 5% of each class, but it is something to keep in mind.

Those numbers don't surprise me for W&C, but in fairness they're hiring every year. The small conservative DC ones make sense I guess

This just isn't true. I know people from CLS who spent summers at Consovoy and Cooper & Kirk (both through Blackstone). Looking at Consovoy's website, only a single current attorney went to a school ranked higher than CLS. They have more Notre Dame and GMU grads than HLS...

Maybe I just dont know their recruitment structure very well, but I have numerous friends at other schools with summers there and they did nothing at CLS past 2 years at least

Wrong again. Someone from CLS was at Consovoy this past summer.

[jackshunger]

Clerkships are harder to get, some of the boutiques won't even look at you, our grading system and honors system is a mess. Overall way more good than bad, but something to keep in mind.

What boutiques don't hire from CLS? Just wondering, surprises me

W&C isn't really a boutique per se, but they hired something like 4 times as many HLS grads as CLS ones. There are others like Consovoy McCarthy and Cooper & Kirk that don't recruit CLS people at all. Again, it's a very small set of firms, and it affects maybe 5% of each class, but it is something to keep in mind.

Those numbers don't surprise me for W&C, but in fairness they're hiring every year. The small conservative DC ones make sense I guess

This just isn't true. I know people from CLS who spent summers at Consovoy and Cooper & Kirk (both through Blackstone). Looking at Consovoy's website, only a single current attorney went to a school ranked higher than CLS. They have more Notre Dame and GMU grads than HLS...

Maybe I just dont know their recruitment structure very well, but I have numerous friends at other schools with summers there and they did nothing at CLS past 2 years at least

Wrong again. Someone from CLS was at Consovoy this past summer.

I can't check you on that, so I'll take your work for it, but their name isn't on the list I'd expect it to be on.

[galba]

This just isn't true. I know people from CLS who spent summers at Consovoy and Cooper & Kirk (both through Blackstone). Looking at Consovoy's website, only a single current attorney went to a school ranked higher than CLS. They have more Notre Dame and GMU grads than HLS...

Maybe I just dont know their recruitment structure very well, but I have numerous friends at other schools with summers there and they did nothing at CLS past 2 years at least

Wrong again. Someone from CLS was at Consovoy this past summer.

I can't check you on that, so I'll take your work for it, but their name isn't on the list I'd expect it to be on.

I'm 100% positive on this. If you're in FedSoc, just ask around, it's not a secret. If you're not in FedSoc, unclear why you're worried about conservative lit boutique hiring anyway.

[BrainsyK]

I only used those as examples because I was discussing with one of my work buddies how to get a job there for the summer and he more or less stated one of the partners just sent an email that said "send me your resume" when he was at HLS. I'm pretty sure that doesn't happen at CLS, or at least hasnt happened to anyone I know.

I know of no cases at Columbia, but I know someone who was offered a district court clerkship in a non-2/9/DC yet non-flyover state via email without having applied. They were at a T10. These one-offs happen to a few people every year. I'm sure HLS helped, but I have a sense that your buddy had a lot of other distinguishing qualities to warrant that kind of invitation. If you have those qualities and your Linkedin profile happens to catches the right eyes, who knows what could drop into your lap?

For a more factual and less anecdotal example, W&C hired 16 people from HLS last year, they hired 3 from CLS. It was pretty similar the year before. Kellogg is also pretty similar, but they are more unique as you stated.

Yeah, this happens every year, but having a 2.8% chance at W&C from HLS v. 0.7% chance from CLS hardly makes HLS some paradise--especially when the procedure at getting an offer is basically the same.

Other examples are that 1 person from CLS went to McKinsey last year, that number was way higher at HLS.

Similar logic with above--except McKinsey recruiting is even less dependent on law school reputation. People get screeners for all kinds of things. Hell, a bunch of people who showed up at a GS event in my year got screeners. Most of them never got past the screener when they had to answer the most basic of accounting questions. If you can't perform on the technical portion of the interview, you won't get the job--HLS or CLS.

My grades were pretty meh so I can't pretend like I understand how disappointing it must to dominate 1L but still miss out an elite boutique, but 56 people were top 10% at HLS after. Even assuming that that's the grade cut at HLS, 70% of them still missed out on W&C. The delta between W&C and even S&C is pretty significant and it must feel even more significant when you're that close, but ultimately, the numbers don't bear out that CLS students are having to reach hard for opportunities that HLS students are swimming in.

I think maybe I zoned in too much on your language, which implied a stronger gap between CLS and HYS than you intended. Sorry. Didn't mean to attack you or your ability to reason these things out.

[jackshunger]

I only used those as examples because I was discussing with one of my work buddies how to get a job there for the summer and he more or less stated one of the partners just sent an email that said "send me your resume" when he was at HLS. I'm pretty sure that doesn't happen at CLS, or at least hasnt happened to anyone I know.

I know of no cases at Columbia, but I know someone who was offered a district court clerkship in a non-2/9/DC yet non-flyover state via email without having applied. They were at a T10. These one-offs happen to a few people every year. I'm sure HLS helped, but I have a sense that your buddy had a lot of other distinguishing qualities to warrant that kind of invitation. If you have those qualities and your Linkedin profile happens to catches the right eyes, who knows what could drop into your lap?

For a more factual and less anecdotal example, W&C hired 16 people from HLS last year, they hired 3 from CLS. It was pretty similar the year before. Kellogg is also pretty similar, but they are more unique as you stated.

Yeah, this happens every year, but having a 2.8% chance at W&C from HLS v. 0.7% chance from CLS hardly makes HLS some paradise--especially when the procedure at getting an offer is basically the same.

Other examples are that 1 person from CLS went to McKinsey last year, that number was way higher at HLS.

Similar logic with above--except McKinsey recruiting is even less dependent on law school reputation. People get screeners for all kinds of things. Hell, a bunch of people who showed up at a GS event in my year got screeners. Most of them never got past the screener when they had to answer the most basic of accounting questions. If you can't perform on the technical portion of the interview, you won't get the job--HLS or CLS.

My grades were pretty meh so I can't pretend like I understand how disappointing it must to dominate 1L but still miss out an elite boutique, but 56 people were top 10% at HLS after. Even assuming that that's the grade cut at HLS, 70% of them still missed out on W&C. The delta between W&C and even S&C is pretty significant and it must feel even more significant when you're that close, but ultimately, the numbers don't bear out that CLS students are having to reach hard for opportunities that HLS students are swimming in.

I think maybe I zoned in too much on your language, which implied a stronger gap between CLS and HYS than you intended. Sorry. Didn't mean to attack you or your ability to reason these things out.

It's not a big deal and I'd probably end up outing myself if I gave more information, so I'll stop at what I said earlier. It's not a big deal at all for 95% of students, but if you are in that 5% or less, it is something to think about. I didn't mean to sound bitter about CLS at all truthfully.

[pianolesspianist]

Thanks for making this thread!

I was just recently accepted to Columbia, so I would appreciate if you could talk about your general experience there? How do you find the workload, the professors, the assignments, the opportunities, and the day to day lifestyle?

From what I've read, there seems to be a perception that NYU is more laid-back/less "uptight" than Columbia - to what extent, if at all, would you say this is the case?

Finally, what would you say is the best part of attending Columbia specifically, and what is the worst?

Thanks!

(I know I'm asking a lot of questions - thanks for any time you invest in answering them! First deposit deadline is in less than a week and I want all the extra info i can get )

I'll give my two cents on this.

Opportunities: We'll have to see what coronavirus does to the legal market, but pretty much everyone who wats Big Law doesn't have too much problem getting it. Academia is probably significantly harder than somewhere like Yale, obviously, and our clerkships office by all accounts is not good.

The best and worst part are the opportunities: You have the chance to go into Big Law and get a great job, which is amazing, but when you compare it to HYS, and if you have done well at CLS, you realize how hard it is to reach for some of the more unicorn stuff there that I think a lot of their students take for granted. Clerkships are harder to get, some of the boutiques won't even look at you, our grading system and honors system is a mess. Overall way more good than bad, but something to keep in mind.

Thanks so much for your input (and sorry for all the grief it got you lol)!

I know going to Columbia for PI is uncommon, but do you have anything to say about that aspect of things? I've been in touch with the director of their human rights program, and honestly, it seems pretty stellar. Like, UN internships, work abroad, HRW, environmental stuff......all pretty unicorn-sounding. If someone here has some actual experience or knowledge of their PI/HR programs please do share

[jackshunger]

Thanks for making this thread!

I was just recently accepted to Columbia, so I would appreciate if you could talk about your general experience there? How do you find the workload, the professors, the assignments, the opportunities, and the day to day lifestyle?

From what I've read, there seems to be a perception that NYU is more laid-back/less "uptight" than Columbia - to what extent, if at all, would you say this is the case?

Finally, what would you say is the best part of attending Columbia specifically, and what is the worst?

Thanks!

(I know I'm asking a lot of questions - thanks for any time you invest in answering them! First deposit deadline is in less than a week and I want all the extra info i can get )

I'll give my two cents on this.

Opportunities: We'll have to see what coronavirus does to the legal market, but pretty much everyone who wats Big Law doesn't have too much problem getting it. Academia is probably significantly harder than somewhere like Yale, obviously, and our clerkships office by all accounts is not good.

The best and worst part are the opportunities: You have the chance to go into Big Law and get a great job, which is amazing, but when you compare it to HYS, and if you have done well at CLS, you realize how hard it is to reach for some of the more unicorn stuff there that I think a lot of their students take for granted. Clerkships are harder to get, some of the boutiques won't even look at you, our grading system and honors system is a mess. Overall way more good than bad, but something to keep in mind.

Thanks so much for your input (and sorry for all the grief it got you lol)!

I know going to Columbia for PI is uncommon, but do you have anything to say about that aspect of things? I've been in touch with the director of their human rights program, and honestly, it seems pretty stellar. Like, UN internships, work abroad, HRW, environmental stuff......all pretty unicorn-sounding. If someone here has some actual experience or knowledge of their PI/HR programs please do share

It's not a problem. I don't have much first-hand experience with it, all I can say is that CLS is trying to put more money into trying to get students into PI gigs. They also just started a PI Fellows program for 1Ls and from everything I have heard, the International Human Rights program they fund for 1L summer is quite good and they work hard to help you find a placement for the summer. There are also some pretty cool labs and clinics dedicated to PI work, even if you decide later to try and make BigLaw bucks.

[The Lsat Airbender]

Clerkships are harder to get, some of the boutiques won't even look at you, our grading system and honors system is a mess. Overall way more good than bad, but something to keep in mind.

What boutiques don't hire from CLS? Just wondering, surprises me

W&C isn't really a boutique per se, but they hired something like 4 times as many HLS grads as CLS ones. There are others like Consovoy McCarthy and Cooper & Kirk that don't recruit CLS people at all. Again, it's a very small set of firms, and it affects maybe 5% of each class, but it is something to keep in mind.

Those numbers don't surprise me for W&C, but in fairness they're hiring every year. The small conservative DC ones make sense I guess

This just isn't true. I know people from CLS who spent summers at Consovoy and Cooper & Kirk (both through Blackstone). Looking at Consovoy's website, only a single current attorney went to a school ranked higher than CLS. They have more Notre Dame and GMU grads than HLS...

Maybe I just dont know their recruitment structure very well, but I have numerous friends at other schools with summers there and they did nothing at CLS past 2 years at least

Seems to me like CLS students has fewer grads interested in small conservative outfits than big schools with deeper conservative contingents, and HLS happens to fit that description rather than be way stronger overall.

A firm recruiting at A and not B doesn't necessarily mean they wouldn't be happy to recruit students from B. Like, Californian midlaw firms don't do OCI at Yale.