What does the "top-law-schools.com" cost? Forum

[Troianii]

Not a law grad, but I've been living on my own for nearly a decade so I feel I'm still qualified to speak to this for the most part...

COL is usually overestimated, but that's because of how I look at it. When I think of COL (and apparently I am in the minority), I generally think of the cost to get by, not to live well or in a decent neighborhood, etc. If you're going to school and taking on loans, I'd recommend eating Ramen at least once a day and making your own meals. If you skimp and do what you can to save money, you can get by living on your own under 15k/yr in most areas, even cities. If you're going to law school in a small town or rural area, you can probably do it for 10-12k, but that's if you're really living on the cheap, and not including what should be one time purchases, such as a suit.

As jeremydc said, 20k/yr is reasonable for a "semi-comfortable" lifestyle in most big cities, 15k for small cities. That seems accurate to me. Ultimately, its up to you. If you're okay coming out of law school with an additional 10-30k in debt to live more comfortably than is absolutely necessary, then that's your choice to make. But debt just sucks - I'd recommend avoiding it if at all possible, especially unsubsidized. In all likelihood, your expenses will come close to what you'll find listed. I'd check lawschooltransparency which, for example, says the COL at BU is 18k, NYU 27k. My only point here is that you can do it for significantly less - CAN. Eat Ramen at least once a day, take good care of your clothes (I've seen people dump money because they ruin nice clothes), make most of your own food, and live in a cheap apartment. But that's a value judgement - some people would rather take on an extra 30k in debt during law school to improve their quality of living, some would rather minimize debt at all costs. For the most part, I think, it depends on what you want to do out of law school. If you've got biglaw lined up, living it up a little bit isn't so bad, but if you want to work in public interest, you better be eating Ramen twice a day in law school.

[Troianii]

Way too location dependent to really answer this, but unless you've worked in a professional setting for a while before law school definitely plan on budgeting 3-500 for interview clothes and try to keep an eye out for good sales. Waiting to get this until you absolutely need it, or dressing like a clown, can cost you a lot of extra money.

If you're a woman, you can budget way less than $300. More like $60.

$60 for interview clothes? Women spend a ton of $$$ on clothes (and shoes, and hair-cuts, and make-up) Maybe if you're reeeeeally thrifty and you got it at Ross.

I don't know how much women do or don't actually spend, but I'm at a job that requires suiting and bought three colors at H&M for $200-210-ish. $30-ish for a structured blazer, $10-20 for matching slacks, and button-downs/tank tops of assorted prices. It's not that there's no difference between H&M and the next option up, but there's really no way for someone else to know the difference. My recruiter told me it was the best option, and she wasn't wrong.

Edit: Express also has sales frequently for $75 off $200, et cetera.

No offense but H&M and express clothes are made cheaply and fall apart quickly. I would suggest as a law student you invest in something a little sturdier/more professional.

I'm not a law student and don't know how prissy people can be about branding in the legal community (I've known circles where people were prissy about brand names, and I imagine that might not be uncommon in law school), but you can find a high quality suit without the well-known brand name for a really good price. So if people are snobs about brand names then discount what I'm saying, but you can get a good suit w/o the brand name for easily under $200. I'd pay more attention to the material and style than the name brand, at least for your first suit, and while you're in law school and strapped for cash.

EDIT: And I don't want to take this off topic, but do people really care about what brand you're wearing? I assume that if you're wearing a good looking quality suit, no one is really going to care about brand name.

[jbagelboy]

Did you even read what I wrote? I'm not talking about brands; I was specifically referring to quality of material, longevity, durability, and professional appearance. I'm not saying you need to spend a certain amount of money or purchase from one designer or another.

That being said, as a more general point, in elite law and business 'circles' the answer is yes, people will absolutely know what brands you wear and judge you for them in some way, positive, neutral, or negatively. At its upper crust it's an image-conscious profession. But that's really not what I'm discussing wrt law student attire.

[Hand]

OP you gotta spend money to make money, if you ain't living that models & bottles lifestyle in school, how do you ever expect anyone to give you a job that pays 160k?

[acr]

What does the "top-law-schools.com" cost?

your sanity

[Troianii]

Did you even read what I wrote? I'm not talking about brands; I was specifically referring to quality of material, longevity, durability, and professional appearance. I'm not saying you need to spend a certain amount of money or purchase from one designer or another.

That being said, as a more general point, in elite law and business 'circles' the answer is yes, people will absolutely know what brands you wear and judge you for them in some way, positive, neutral, or negatively. At its upper crust it's an image-conscious profession. But that's really not what I'm discussing wrt law student attire.

yes I read what you wrote. I wasn't disagreeing with you.

Thanks for the tidbit about branding in elite circles - I assumed that there were some areas where it mattered, but that in most areas quality is all that really matters.

[BigZuck]

"No Park Aves=No offer" is a saying for a reason

Eat ramen all the time if you want but if you want to live like a normal human then plan on spending about 20IshK give or take each year while in law school.

[First Offense]

I'm not a law student and don't know how prissy people can be about branding in the legal community (I've known circles where people were prissy about brand names, and I imagine that might not be uncommon in law school), but you can find a high quality suit without the well-known brand name for a really good price. So if people are snobs about brand names then discount what I'm saying, but you can get a good suit w/o the brand name for easily under $200. I'd pay more attention to the material and style than the name brand, at least for your first suit, and while you're in law school and strapped for cash.

EDIT: And I don't want to take this off topic, but do people really care about what brand you're wearing? I assume that if you're wearing a good looking quality suit, no one is really going to care about brand name.

Do you know what a good looking, quality suit looks like?

Of course no one will care, but what they see and what you see probably aren't the same. I can spot a shitty suit now, and it's not the stuff I was looking for before I knew about menswear. If you can find a legit, nice suit for 200 bucks - go wild. You're not going to get it at H&M though.

Same with shoes. People recommend Allen Edmonds not because they're snobs, but because they're high quality shoes. No one cares if you get seconds or get them on sale or even get them second hand. Save money where you can, but you should still be wearing quality stuff.

[Troianii]

I'm not a law student and don't know how prissy people can be about branding in the legal community (I've known circles where people were prissy about brand names, and I imagine that might not be uncommon in law school), but you can find a high quality suit without the well-known brand name for a really good price. So if people are snobs about brand names then discount what I'm saying, but you can get a good suit w/o the brand name for easily under $200. I'd pay more attention to the material and style than the name brand, at least for your first suit, and while you're in law school and strapped for cash.

EDIT: And I don't want to take this off topic, but do people really care about what brand you're wearing? I assume that if you're wearing a good looking quality suit, no one is really going to care about brand name.

Do you know what a good looking, quality suit looks like?

Of course no one will care, but what they see and what you see probably aren't the same. I can spot a shitty suit now, and it's not the stuff I was looking for before I knew about menswear. If you can find a legit, nice suit for 200 bucks - go wild. You're not going to get it at H&M though.

Same with shoes. People recommend Allen Edmonds not because they're snobs, but because they're high quality shoes. No one cares if you get seconds or get them on sale or even get them second hand. Save money where you can, but you should still be wearing quality stuff.

Generally, yeah. I'm sure there are some aspects I'm not aware of that some people might look for, and I've never paid close attention to whether a suit is fused or free floating canvas, but I know what a quality material is, and I know about attention to detail in clothing. I use to be in a profession where a single fray or a less than stellar shirt or pant crease was hell to pay.

To me, brand names in anything are like school rankings - they are "meaningless" and not a true measure of quality but, at the same time, they're a good shorthand of quality. You don't really want to pick a law school based on the rankings, but the rankings are a good shorthand to use if you're not savvy to the kind of details most people are after being on LST for a while. Likewise, brand name doesn't a quality suit make but, if you don't know a quality suit, then you can brand names to get by w/o knowing, or until you do know. I just got a couple decent suits on the cheap, new, for 150 each. I'm not saying it's on par with a Hugo Boss or Burberry, but they're basically mid-end suits at a low-end price.

[jbagelboy]

I'm not a law student and don't know how prissy people can be about branding in the legal community (I've known circles where people were prissy about brand names, and I imagine that might not be uncommon in law school), but you can find a high quality suit without the well-known brand name for a really good price. So if people are snobs about brand names then discount what I'm saying, but you can get a good suit w/o the brand name for easily under $200. I'd pay more attention to the material and style than the name brand, at least for your first suit, and while you're in law school and strapped for cash.

EDIT: And I don't want to take this off topic, but do people really care about what brand you're wearing? I assume that if you're wearing a good looking quality suit, no one is really going to care about brand name.

Do you know what a good looking, quality suit looks like?

Of course no one will care, but what they see and what you see probably aren't the same. I can spot a shitty suit now, and it's not the stuff I was looking for before I knew about menswear. If you can find a legit, nice suit for 200 bucks - go wild. You're not going to get it at H&M though.

Same with shoes. People recommend Allen Edmonds not because they're snobs, but because they're high quality shoes. No one cares if you get seconds or get them on sale or even get them second hand. Save money where you can, but you should still be wearing quality stuff.

Generally, yeah. I'm sure there are some aspects I'm not aware of that some people might look for, and I've never paid close attention to whether a suit is fused or free floating canvas, but I know what a quality material is, and I know about attention to detail in clothing. I use to be in a profession where a single fray or a less than stellar shirt or pant crease was hell to pay.

To me, brand names in anything are like school rankings - they are "meaningless" and not a true measure of quality but, at the same time, they're a good shorthand of quality. You don't really want to pick a law school based on the rankings, but the rankings are a good shorthand to use if you're not savvy to the kind of details most people are after being on LST for a while. Likewise, brand name doesn't a quality suit make but, if you don't know a quality suit, then you can brand names to get by w/o knowing, or until you do know. I just got a couple decent suits on the cheap, new, for 150 each. I'm not saying it's on par with a Hugo Boss or Burberry, but they're basically mid-end suits at a low-end price.

I mean, the apt comparison to the US News survey would be if someone generated a ranking of clothing brands composed pseudo-scientifically from a combination of some legitimate, some asinine variables, many drawn from survey results of people associated with the industry. The existence of brands themselves, unranked, where we just have a general sense of how nice they are, isn't really the same. But yea.

[Troianii]

I mean, the apt comparison to the US News survey would be if someone generated a ranking of clothing brands composed pseudo-scientifically from a combination of some legitimate, some asinine variables, many drawn from survey results of people associated with the industry. The existence of brands themselves, unranked, where we just have a general sense of how nice they are, isn't really the same. But yea.

... +1? I mean, really just shooting the shit at this point. I don't imagine anyone is highly invested in an argument over suits.

Well sure it's not entirely apples to apples, but I think the general point is still valid. Law school rankings are a good shorthand if you generally don't know what to look for - so, its a good shorthand I imagine for MOST law applicants, though not TLS. Wasn't really suggesting there's a suit ranking (seriously laughed a lil bit at the thought of one ), but there are suit brands which you can trust is a quality suit pretty much on the name alone, which is why people generally recommend going with this or that brand - you might be able to get the same quality elsewhere, x suit brand is always good.

[TheSpanishMain]

I'm not a law student and don't know how prissy people can be about branding in the legal community (I've known circles where people were prissy about brand names, and I imagine that might not be uncommon in law school), but you can find a high quality suit without the well-known brand name for a really good price. So if people are snobs about brand names then discount what I'm saying, but you can get a good suit w/o the brand name for easily under $200. I'd pay more attention to the material and style than the name brand, at least for your first suit, and while you're in law school and strapped for cash.

EDIT: And I don't want to take this off topic, but do people really care about what brand you're wearing? I assume that if you're wearing a good looking quality suit, no one is really going to care about brand name.

Do you know what a good looking, quality suit looks like?

Of course no one will care, but what they see and what you see probably aren't the same. I can spot a shitty suit now, and it's not the stuff I was looking for before I knew about menswear.

This. Troianii, you were in the Army, right? You know how when you see a person in uniform in a movie or on TV, and you immediately notice their uniform is fucked up in a million subtle ways that non-vets would never notice? It's like that with wearing a cheap suit. You can get away with it, especially when you're just starting out, but people will notice. Whether they care or not is a different story. A partner at my brother-in-law's firm is cheap as hell and gives no fucks and gets all his suits from Goodwill.

[Troianii]

I'm not a law student and don't know how prissy people can be about branding in the legal community (I've known circles where people were prissy about brand names, and I imagine that might not be uncommon in law school), but you can find a high quality suit without the well-known brand name for a really good price. So if people are snobs about brand names then discount what I'm saying, but you can get a good suit w/o the brand name for easily under $200. I'd pay more attention to the material and style than the name brand, at least for your first suit, and while you're in law school and strapped for cash.

EDIT: And I don't want to take this off topic, but do people really care about what brand you're wearing? I assume that if you're wearing a good looking quality suit, no one is really going to care about brand name.

Do you know what a good looking, quality suit looks like?

Of course no one will care, but what they see and what you see probably aren't the same. I can spot a shitty suit now, and it's not the stuff I was looking for before I knew about menswear.

This. Troianii, you were in the Army, right? You know how when you see a person in uniform in a movie or on TV, and you immediately notice their uniform is fucked up in a million subtle ways that non-vets would never notice? It's like that with wearing a cheap suit. You can get away with it, especially when you're just starting out, but people will notice. Whether they care or not is a different story. A partner at my brother-in-law's firm is cheap as hell and gives no fucks and gets all his suits from Goodwill.

Yeah, that sounds about right. I'm sure there are things you two would notice that I wouldn't.

So what should I be looking for? That is, what makers do you use to gauge a good/shifty suit?