Master degree before Law School ? Forum

[sparty99]

Learning new paradigms, finding a personal philosophy, and discovering what your specific interests are. Most 21 year olds don't know shit about themselves. He has to make the decision about his financial situation and whether it's worth it or not.

Graduate school is about discovering yourself. That's all that life is about. It ain't about making $150k/year. You'll be miserable unless you're pursuing the goal you set for yourself--not what twits on this message board tell you you should do. Otherwise, you'll be another of the many stunted individuals who populate these message boards.

The fuck? "Graduate school is about discovering yourself?" You have an undergraduate degree, dropped out of a PHD program, and are now attending Law School. You are a degree whore.

Degrees don't do anything, but delay a person from working and actually persuing a living. This dude doesn't have to spend $50,000+ in a masters degree program to "discover himself." WHATEVER THE HELL THAT MEANS. You might as well, you know, work. Learn what it takes to pay the bills. Establish a career. Do an internship in urban planning while in undergrad. Get a job in urban planning immediately. Post undergrad. No one said anything about making $150,000. But going your route would be $150,000 in DEBT. OP will be MISERABLE when he has to make $1,000 + LOAN PAYMENTS.

[banjo]

I hated the PhD program, leaving shortly after my master's, but the time spent there was well worth it. It changed my way of interpreting the world, gave me time to mature, and led to amazing career opportunities overseas. Although I never thought I would apply to law school, seven years later, I'm doing exactly that with a much more focused idea of what I want to do. I'm also mature enough to view with skepticism people's advice of telling you "this is the way it should be done, and you're stupid otherwise."

I did the same thing, but TBF, most PhD students get a pretty livable stipend and subsidized housing. This person will likely PAY to attend classes for two years, as sparty pointed out.

[TheSpanishMain]

Learning new paradigms, finding a personal philosophy, and discovering what your specific interests are. Most 21 year olds don't know shit about themselves. He has to make the decision about his financial situation and whether it's worth it or not.

Graduate school is about discovering yourself. That's all that life is about. It ain't about making $150k/year. You'll be miserable unless you're pursuing the goal you set for yourself--not what twits on this message board tell you you should do. Otherwise, you'll be another of the many stunted individuals who populate these message boards.

The fuck? "Graduate school is about discovering yourself?" You have an undergraduate degree, dropped out of a PHD program, and are now attending Law School. You are a degree whore.

Degrees don't do anything, but delay a person from working and actually persuing a living. This dude doesn't have to spend $50,000+ in a masters degree program to "discover himself." WHATEVER THE HELL THAT MEANS. You might as well, you know, work. Learn what it takes to pay the bills. Establish a career. Do an internship in urban planning while in undergrad. Get a job in urban planning immediately. Post undergrad. No one said anything about making $150,000. But going your route would be $150,000 in DEBT. OP will be MISERABLE when he has to make $1,000 + LOAN PAYMENTS.

I agree with everything you've said here, but I urge you to wean yourself from your caps lock addiction. You sound like Billy Eichner.

[gnomgnomuch]

Sorry to Hijack this thread, but I don't want to create a separate one, for basically the same question.
I'm almost done with my UG.. i'll have a ~3.75 once I graduate. I'm not ready to take the LSAT - testing in the high 160's, but I want a 173+ score to minimize debt (close to full scholly at Cornell is basically the goal).

I've got two options: Find a full time job - most likely as a paralegal.
OR: If accepted to one of LSE, UCL, ICL or Oxford, go there to do an Masters of Public Policy. If I were to do the MPP, I would work for at least 2-3 years before going back to LS, and at that point LS would not be a sure thing.

(Everything changes, if I get a fulbright)

Can someone please tell me if this is A) incredibly Stupid or B) Makes at least some sense. (or anything in between)

Keep in mind, the MPP in London would be 1 year and 60-70k VS. 2 years 140k in the US or 3 years and 280k for the JD.

[A. Nony Mouse]

The fuck? "Graduate school is about discovering yourself?" You have an undergraduate degree, dropped out of a PHD program, and are now attending Law School. You are a degree whore.

A purely academic degree, like a PhD (or a MA leading to a PhD), is a very different experience than a professional program. If you haven't been through it, you might not want to comment on what it's for or what people's experiences are like in those programs. And working for 7 years post-MA, then deciding to go to law school isn't exactly the same as being a career student.

I do agree that going into debt for an expensive professional master's with the intent of then going to law school doesn't make a lot of sense (unless you have unlimited funds, then do whatever you like). If you want to go into corporate communication, then go do the degree and work in whatever's related to that for a while. Law school isn't going anywhere. If you want to go to law school, go to law school. But you don't need to do both. They don't have anything to do with each other, really.

gnomgnomuch - I think either option is totally fine, if you want to spend the money on the degree. (I can't answer the latter, it depends on your financial situation.) I tend to think people going into either situation - paralegal/job or non-law degree - are likely to find something else worthwhile to do than going to law school after, so I wouldn't make the choice based on which is more likely to lead to/help in law school. Which one makes more sense for you now if you take law school completely off the table? (You have no idea if you'll still want to go to law school after working/doing an MA and working for some number of years.)

[gnomgnomuch]

The fuck? "Graduate school is about discovering yourself?" You have an undergraduate degree, dropped out of a PHD program, and are now attending Law School. You are a degree whore.

A purely academic degree, like a PhD (or a MA leading to a PhD), is a very different experience than a professional program. If you haven't been through it, you might not want to comment on what it's for or what people's experiences are like in those programs. And working for 7 years post-MA, then deciding to go to law school isn't exactly the same as being a career student.

I do agree that going into debt for an expensive professional master's with the intent of then going to law school doesn't make a lot of sense (unless you have unlimited funds, then do whatever you like). If you want to go into corporate communication, then go do the degree and work in whatever's related to that for a while. Law school isn't going anywhere. If you want to go to law school, go to law school. But you don't need to do both. They don't have anything to do with each other, really.

gnomgnomuch - I think either option is totally fine, if you want to spend the money on the degree. (I can't answer the latter, it depends on your financial situation.) I tend to think people going into either situation - paralegal/job or non-law degree - are likely to find something else worthwhile to do than going to law school after, so I wouldn't make the choice based on which is more likely to lead to/help in law school. Which one makes more sense for you now if you take law school completely off the table? (You have no idea if you'll still want to go to law school after working/doing an MA and working for some number of years.)

Well, the MPP appeals a LOTTTT more to me at the moment. 1) I've studied abroad in London before, and I'd love to go back there. 2) I do have some law experience, and I think i'd be happy doing law related work as well, as long as it wasn't big law.
3) I am in a way prestige whoring... look at the schools I listed, but thats more so because going to a random college in London wouldn't exactly open doors for me in terms of getting a job, while a degree from one of those 4 schools would make it much more likely.
4) I'd have to finance the degree through loans, but I would be comfortable taking them out for these schools.
5) Ideally i'd love to work in a policy think tank, doing education policy research. (That's what i'm seriously interested in.)

[A. Nony Mouse]

I think if you want to work in policy, a JD isn't necessary at all - a subject-area degree in a relevant field and work in the field are going to be much more helpful. I'm not saying it's an easy route or jobs fall into your lap, but I would just go try to do that and worry about law school if it becomes relevant down the line - if you find you want to do stuff that requires a JD (but legal work is pretty specialized and distinct from policy, from what I can tell. General research ability in relevant fields is more helpful for the latter, which isn't what a JD gives you. But I'm not the world's biggest expert on policy jobs and how to get them, so take this with a grain of salt).

If you're thinking about working as a paralegal because it would be relevant for law school, but not for any other reason, it's not worth doing (unless you want to learn what the legal environment is like and whether you'd like it, which makes some sense). People come to law school from all kinds of backgrounds.

[gnomgnomuch]

I think if you want to work in policy, a JD isn't necessary at all - a subject-area degree in a relevant field and work in the field are going to be much more helpful. I'm not saying it's an easy route or jobs fall into your lap, but I would just go try to do that and worry about law school if it becomes relevant down the line - if you find you want to do stuff that requires a JD (but legal work is pretty specialized and distinct from policy, from what I can tell. General research ability in relevant fields is more helpful for the latter, which isn't what a JD gives you. But I'm not the world's biggest expert on policy jobs and how to get them, so take this with a grain of salt).

If you're thinking about working as a paralegal because it would be relevant for law school, but not for any other reason, it's not worth doing (unless you want to learn what the legal environment is like and whether you'd like it, which makes some sense). People come to law school from all kinds of backgrounds.

Well, i have a poli sci major and business journalism/corp comm minors from a decent school in NY... so i'm not super employable. Paralegal work would be my best shot at a more or less decent paying job. My only saving grace is that I've been able to work throughout college and I have zero debt.

Policy is def more my interest, hence the masters in public policy. Thank you for replying btw, it's very appreciated.

[UnicornHunter]

I think if you want to work in policy, a JD isn't necessary at all - a subject-area degree in a relevant field and work in the field are going to be much more helpful. I'm not saying it's an easy route or jobs fall into your lap, but I would just go try to do that and worry about law school if it becomes relevant down the line - if you find you want to do stuff that requires a JD (but legal work is pretty specialized and distinct from policy, from what I can tell. General research ability in relevant fields is more helpful for the latter, which isn't what a JD gives you. But I'm not the world's biggest expert on policy jobs and how to get them, so take this with a grain of salt).

If you're thinking about working as a paralegal because it would be relevant for law school, but not for any other reason, it's not worth doing (unless you want to learn what the legal environment is like and whether you'd like it, which makes some sense). People come to law school from all kinds of backgrounds.

Well, i have a poli sci major and business journalism/corp comm minors from a decent school in NY... so i'm not super employable. Paralegal work would be my best shot at a more or less decent paying job. My only saving grace is that I've been able to work throughout college and I have zero debt.

Policy is def more my interest, hence the masters in public policy. Thank you for replying btw, it's very appreciated.

Are you writing yourself off as not employable, or have you actually gone through the job search process, reached out to people (alums) in the career field you're interested etc, etc... If you're interested in policy, the best way to get there is to jump in for a few years. Takes some low level job that lets you build connections and actually, you know, work in the area you want to work in. Graduate school will always be around for next year.

[gnomgnomuch]

I think if you want to work in policy, a JD isn't necessary at all - a subject-area degree in a relevant field and work in the field are going to be much more helpful. I'm not saying it's an easy route or jobs fall into your lap, but I would just go try to do that and worry about law school if it becomes relevant down the line - if you find you want to do stuff that requires a JD (but legal work is pretty specialized and distinct from policy, from what I can tell. General research ability in relevant fields is more helpful for the latter, which isn't what a JD gives you. But I'm not the world's biggest expert on policy jobs and how to get them, so take this with a grain of salt).

If you're thinking about working as a paralegal because it would be relevant for law school, but not for any other reason, it's not worth doing (unless you want to learn what the legal environment is like and whether you'd like it, which makes some sense). People come to law school from all kinds of backgrounds.

Well, i have a poli sci major and business journalism/corp comm minors from a decent school in NY... so i'm not super employable. Paralegal work would be my best shot at a more or less decent paying job. My only saving grace is that I've been able to work throughout college and I have zero debt.

Policy is def more my interest, hence the masters in public policy. Thank you for replying btw, it's very appreciated.

Are you writing yourself off as not employable, or have you actually gone through the job search process, reached out to people (alums) in the career field you're interested etc, etc... If you're interested in policy, the best way to get there is to jump in for a few years. Takes some low level job that lets you build connections and actually, you know, work in the area you want to work in. Graduate school will always be around for next year.

Oh no, I actually HAVE an offer... but as a paralegal. I'm talking about jobs that would let me work in policy. I've struck out on internships and job applications unfortunately. Where would I jump in? I just can't afford to do an unpaid internship.

[tomwatts]

I'm a JD/MPP at HLS/HKS, so I know a bit about finding policy jobs.

If you want to work at a think tank doing ed policy research, an MPP is a reasonable stepping stone. (More reasonable, I think, than a JD, which really doesn't seem applicable for that particular career path.) Bear in mind that a 1-year degree is very short; you'll start applying for jobs within a few months of starting the school year.

I'm not sure how international MPPs are viewed in that space, so if you want to come back to NY (or DC, the hub for policy jobs), it'd be worth checking into whether people in the kinds of jobs you're interested in have international degrees and if people in the schools you're looking at go to America afterward.

A lot of ed policy research these days is heavily quantitative, so if you don't have a lot of statistical training, make sure you can get it in the year that you're in school. You may or may not have the necessary qualifications after a single year of school; it wouldn't be a terrible idea to consider another degree after that 1-year degree, depending on what your options look like as you're coming out of the degree. You might get the MPP, work for a couple of years, get another higher degree (either from another policy school or from an ed school), and then go back to work at a higher-level job.

It's not clear to me that law should factor into this at all, though, unless you're hoping to do legislative work (and maybe not even then) or education litigation — which is mostly special ed/accommodations stuff, as I understand it. There are a few jobs in the ed law/policy space that really do involve a combination of legal and policy skills (e.g., I interned at Public Advocates), but these are pretty rare.

[gnomgnomuch]

I'm a JD/MPP at HLS/HKS, so I know a bit about finding policy jobs.

If you want to work at a think tank doing ed policy research, an MPP is a reasonable stepping stone. (More reasonable, I think, than a JD, which really doesn't seem applicable for that particular career path.) Bear in mind that a 1-year degree is very short; you'll start applying for jobs within a few months of starting the school year.

I'm not sure how international MPPs are viewed in that space, so if you want to come back to NY (or DC, the hub for policy jobs), it'd be worth checking into whether people in the kinds of jobs you're interested in have international degrees and if people in the schools you're looking at go to America afterward.

A lot of ed policy research these days is heavily quantitative, so if you don't have a lot of statistical training, make sure you can get it in the year that you're in school. You may or may not have the necessary qualifications after a single year of school; it wouldn't be a terrible idea to consider another degree after that 1-year degree, depending on what your options look like as you're coming out of the degree. You might get the MPP, work for a couple of years, get another higher degree (either from another policy school or from an ed school), and then go back to work at a higher-level job.

It's not clear to me that law should factor into this at all, though, unless you're hoping to do legislative work (and maybe not even then) or education litigation — which is mostly special ed/accommodations stuff, as I understand it. There are a few jobs in the ed law/policy space that really do involve a combination of legal and policy skills (e.g., I interned at Public Advocates), but these are pretty rare.

Hey man, thank you so much for the reply, would you mind if i messaged you? so as not to take up the thread?

[tomwatts]

Sure, go ahead.

[mrshibis]

Thank you for your responses! I just would like to add a few things. Frist of all, I am not going to grad school to help boost my application status but rather I have genuine interest for Urban Planning and PR Corporate Communication program. Second, I have got accepted to few other graduate programs (with full-ride/ felloweship) but its MBA and MPA administration program as UIS. and, also university of indiana.

I am very interestted the Urban planning program at Georgetown school of continious studies but its not funded (with no scholarships or/ fellowship). I would like to go Law school but first I want to get my master. What would you recomend ?


Thanks

[mrshibis]

Thank you for your responses! I just would like to add a few things. Frist of all, I am not going to grad school to help boost my application status but rather I have genuine interest for Urban Planning and PR Corporate Communication program. Second, I have got accepted to few other graduate programs (with full-ride/ fellowship) but its MBA and MPA administration program as UIS. In addition university of Indiana.

I am very interested the Urban planning program at Georgetown school of continuous studies but its not funded (with no scholarships or/ fellowship). I would like to go Law school but first I want to get my master. What would you recommend?


Thanks

[mrshibis]

Thank you for your responses! I just would like to add a few things. Frist of all, I am not going to grad school to help boost my application status but rather I have genuine interest for Urban Planning and PR Corporate Communication program. Second, I have got accepted to few other graduate programs (with full-ride/ fellowship) but its MBA and MPA administration program as UIS. In addition university of Indiana.

I am very interested the Urban planning program at Georgetown school of continuous studies but its not funded (with no scholarships or/ fellowship). I would like to go Law school but first I want to get my master. What would you recommend?


Thanks

[BigZuck]

Not sure I understand having an interest in urban planning AND law. Don't you have to pick one or the other? Or is there some sort of overlap I'm missing?

(I just kinda skimmed the thread so maybe that was addressed and I didn't catch it. Also, lol@ enrolling in a PhD to "find yourself")

[CanadianWolf]

Really only worthwhile at this stage of your professional life if you receive a full tuition & fees scholarship accompanied by a teaching stipend.

[mrshibis]

Is one school better than the other ?

Thanks

[fra]

Walt: Daddy what's gradual school?
Garp: What?
Walt: Gradual school. Mommy say's she teaches at gradual school.
Garp: Oh Gradual school is where you go to school and you gradually find out you don't want to go to school anymore.

This is hilarious because it's true. Sad and true.
Source: Currently in gradual school - cannot wait to get out.

[mrshibis]

Walt: Daddy what's gradual school?
Garp: What?
Walt: Gradual school. Mommy say's she teaches at gradual school.
Garp: Oh Gradual school is where you go to school and you gradually find out you don't want to go to school anymore.

This is hilarious because it's true. Sad and true.
Source: Currently in gradual school - cannot wait to get out.

Are you not liking grad school due to your current program, deparment, or school ?

[fra]

Walt: Daddy what's gradual school?
Garp: What?
Walt: Gradual school. Mommy say's she teaches at gradual school.
Garp: Oh Gradual school is where you go to school and you gradually find out you don't want to go to school anymore.

This is hilarious because it's true. Sad and true.
Source: Currently in gradual school - cannot wait to get out.

Are you not liking grad school due to your current program, deparment, or school ?

Program + Department + Research Project (department is in the hard sciences)

[Arbinshire]

I have a BS in Poli Sci, and an MFA in Studio Arts. As someone noted above, the law schools generally don't care. I did, however, have a discussion with one of the professors on the admissions committee after graduation who noted that fact made me seem a bit more interesting. The only real advantage the MFA gave is the much higher minimum wage salary I received while working at the university (degree based salary) and going to law school. (Which shouldn't be done if you can avoid it).

[Ron Don Volante]

Learning new paradigms, finding a personal philosophy, and discovering what your specific interests are. Most 21 year olds don't know shit about themselves. He has to make the decision about his financial situation and whether it's worth it or not.

Graduate school is about discovering yourself. That's all that life is about. It ain't about making $150k/year. You'll be miserable unless you're pursuing the goal you set for yourself--not what twits on this message board tell you you should do. Otherwise, you'll be another of the many stunted individuals who populate these message boards.

LOL I AGREE WITH SPARTY THIS IS FUCKING LAUGHABLE HAHAHA

[MidwestLifer]

Learning new paradigms, finding a personal philosophy, and discovering what your specific interests are. Most 21 year olds don't know shit about themselves. He has to make the decision about his financial situation and whether it's worth it or not.

Graduate school is about discovering yourself. That's all that life is about. It ain't about making $150k/year. You'll be miserable unless you're pursuing the goal you set for yourself--not what twits on this message board tell you you should do. Otherwise, you'll be another of the many stunted individuals who populate these message boards.

There are other ways to "find yourself" (lolololol at this) that don't require two years and $80k (I'm guessing) of additional debt.