Things you wish you knew before you went to law school Forum

[worldtraveler]

I don't know man. I made a lot of awesome friends in law school and met a lot of really cool people, most of whom didn't want to talk about school. Don't hang out with gunners.

[Johann]

This can probably go either way, but live in an apt building with real people not law school peeps. Student housing is great for meeting law students through your housing, but it's really nice to have ways of meeting friends that aren't involved in law at all. In undergrad you are constantly meeting people through friends of friends, house parties, new classes whatever. After college you meet people in dumb places like your apt gym. Law school is very much like high school and being able to meet friends and new people outside of that environment was clutch for me. I was friends with plenty of law people but it's just nice to have the opportunity to meet normal peeps. Especially refreshing during exam time to talk to people about things other than law.

[Nebby]

I wish I knew prior to law school how much daily exercise helps with combating anxiety and stress. Started running at the beginning of 1L and haven't looked back sense. (I'm also convinced that lack of anxiety and stress enabled me to do so well grade-wise)

[FuturePanhandler]

Does anyone have any experience entering law school with a SO who IS in entering law school as well? If so, how'd it work out?

[gk101]

Paying back loans is hard and you will have to alter a lot of your life plans to account for those loan repayments. Your "pay back all the loans in 2 years of biglaw" will probably not work

Make an effort to get to know your professors without being a gunner douche. They can/will be a valuable resource for your entire legal career.

[despina]

A disproportionate number of law students are legitimately sociopaths. Others are just terrible people to have to be around. Still others are very nice, but super awkward.

There are also law students who are awesome to be around and who you will stay friends with forever. And plenty are perfectly fun to go drinking with, even if you don't love them the rest of the time. But it is a much different social environment than everything else I have done.

Socially, I find it pretty similar to high school.

Only the k-jds acted/cared in this way. For those of us that worked before law school, I would say the comparison is pretty unrepresentative. I tended to gravitate towards other students with WE/more life experience distancing themselves from UG anyway. A couple of my close friends were k-jds but they were not like this.

Sounds like my experience. Maybe the overall social climate varies depending on the percentage of people with WE. I have encountered very few sociopaths.

Also - there is no good reason you should ever have to pull an all-nighter, ESPECIALLY around exams. Get sleep.

100% agree. There has never been a time for me in law school where, for less than 6 hours per night of sleep, the marginal benefit of an hour more of studying was more than the marginal benefit of sleeping for that hour instead. I generally get 8, and I am busy as fuck.

I wish I knew prior to law school how much daily exercise helps with combating anxiety and stress. Started running at the beginning of 1L and haven't looked back sense. (I'm also convinced that lack of anxiety and stress enabled me to do so well grade-wise)

Yes yes.

[Holly Golightly]

I don't know man. I made a lot of awesome friends in law school and met a lot of really cool people, most of whom didn't want to talk about school. Don't hang out with gunners.

The group of friends I hang out with is mostly lawyers but there are a few who aren't. I feel SO bad for the non-lawyers because on any given night we definitely end up talking about law stuff without even realizing what we're doing.

[Holly Golightly]

Also, do a clinic or externship doing something you care about, even if it's not the field you intend on going into after law school. It's a great way to get experience and also do something meaningful.

[raekaya]

Does anyone have any experience entering law school with a SO who IS in entering law school as well? If so, how'd it work out?

Will it be long distance or same school/area? Probably makes a huge difference. I met my SO here (another law student) and I've never had a better relationship.

[Bronx Bum]

How much $200k really is.

How school really doesn't matter for anything other than big law...take the money.

How you're really taught nothing when you start practicing and you'll be thrown right in to the point that you want to vomit each night when u wake up in a cold sweat at 3 am.

How (especially NYC) more than half of your classmates were born on third base, have little debt bc parents pay, and have connections that you'll never have no matter how hard you work.

[A. Nony Mouse]

You'll have a tremendous amount of conflict with a non-law SO during 1L anyway. This isn't to say they can't be wonderfully supportive, but it's just going to happen..every couple I knew in LS experienced it, in addition to my own.

Don't agree with this, either. Obviously it can happen but I completely disagree that it's inevitable. So while maybe it's helpful to be sort of warned going in, don't think it has to happen so much that you make it happen where it otherwise wouldn't.

[Tanicius]

A disproportionate number of law students are legitimately sociopaths. Others are just terrible people to have to be around. Still others are very nice, but super awkward.

There are also law students who are awesome to be around and who you will stay friends with forever. And plenty are perfectly fun to go drinking with, even if you don't love them the rest of the time. But it is a much different social environment than everything else I have done.

Socially, I find it pretty similar to high school.

...so you agree that a disproportionate number of law students are sociopaths?

Without question.

Disproportionate, yes probably. To a significant degree higher than the normal population -- I don't know about that. Sociopathy is an overused term. It's not a precise definition, but it involves a pretty high standard of emotional indifference, and the vast majority of law students and lawyers wouldn't qualify for it anyway. Tearing pages out of library books doesn't make you a sociopath, and neither does lying to your buddy about what time his final exam truly starts.

[Holly Golightly]

I wish I'd realized 1L how much I actually enjoy law school classes. I didn't realize that until second semester 2L and I think I could have been a lot happier (and also gotten better grades) if I had embraced my inner nerd sooner.

I also wish I hadn't bought in so much to what TLS/law school common wisdom has to has about things. I was originally in a four year joint degree program that I dropped because people convinced me it was a waste. I should have stayed in it. I would have loved it (and would have graduated with a higher GPA). I also shouldn't have bothered doing OCI. I knew biglaw wasn't for me. I wish I had done my own thing more and not let myself be influenced by everyone else.

[Tanicius]

You'll have a tremendous amount of conflict with a non-law SO during 1L anyway. This isn't to say they can't be wonderfully supportive, but it's just going to happen..every couple I knew in LS experienced it, in addition to my own.

Don't agree with this, either. Obviously it can happen but I completely disagree that it's inevitable. So while maybe it's helpful to be sort of warned going in, don't think it has to happen so much that you make it happen where it otherwise wouldn't.

+1 Nony. Non-law SOs can help keep you grounded (and not even just because they're not as argumentative, but rather because they come from a different perspective and won't always be going through the same "the sky is falling!" moments at the exact same time as you). I also think there are benefits to an SO who is in law school -- they know what you're going through.

The whole idea that your SOs law- or non-law status actually matters in a relationship is an invention by the same people who treat law school like high school. There are tons of things your SO could be doing that are a lot more stressful than law school. Being in law school doesn't mean you'll have lots of "arguments" with them; that's just a myth, up there with the "you should go to law school if you're good at arguing" shtick. Some of my friends from law school, for example, shun all manner of confrontation and would let your averagely assertive person on the street walk all over them. Their skillset is unraveling complex transactions puzzles or they have a science background that makes them valuable for prosecuting patent, not yelling down their parents in an argument about gas money or crushing their SO in an argument over which Netflix show to watch the night before a final.

Really, the issue with law school SOs is that they are operating on the same schedule as you are, so they're stressing and freaking out at the same time as you. This would happen even if both of you were MFA students. Being with a person who panics at different times of the year can be helpful for both of you. When at least one person in the relationship is cheerful at any given moment, it helps keep the other person in-check.

[BVest]

If you volunteer in class when you know the case well, with most profs this will prevent you from getting cold-called when you don't know the case well.

But take note of the exceptions:
The prof who meticulously goes through the roll sheet for cold-calling (you won't be skipped)

The old prof who doesn't cold-call much and can't see well and therefore will only cold-call people whose name he knows (in this class, expect to be called on more)

[Bronx Bum]

If you volunteer in class when you know the case well, with most profs this will prevent you from getting cold-called when you don't know the case well.

But take note of the exceptions:
The prof who meticulously goes through the roll sheet for cold-calling (you won't be skipped)

The old prof who doesn't cold-call much and can't see well and therefore will only cold-call people whose name he knows (in this class, expect to be called on more)

I'd like to add.

Cold calling usually doesn't mean shit. I missed probably 19/20 cold calls throughout law school. Half of those I said unprepared. The others I tried to work myself through.

Cold calling rarely affects ur grade.

[Tanicius]

If you volunteer in class when you know the case well, with most profs this will prevent you from getting cold-called when you don't know the case well.

But take note of the exceptions:
The prof who meticulously goes through the roll sheet for cold-calling (you won't be skipped)

The old prof who doesn't cold-call much and can't see well and therefore will only cold-call people whose name he knows (in this class, expect to be called on more)

All 100% true. I got out of Torts cold calls by cracking a joke about Minnesota when a case involved a person from Minnesota. That satisfied my volunteerism for the entire semester -- never called on again. Facebook'ed my way to finals.

For Contracts, our professor was senile. I never volunteered and would just slink down in my chair when he would look at his chart for someone he hadn't called on yet. Never got called on once. Three people in particular, however, got called on probably every week.

[Holly Golightly]

One thing I'm glad I did was not get myself talked into classes that I had zero interest in. I took almost all of the "clerkship gunner" classes but I never took a single business or transactional class and I'm glad I didn't waste my time.

[A. Nony Mouse]

One thing I'm glad I did was not get myself talked into classes that I had zero interest in. I took almost all of the "clerkship gunner" classes but I never took a single business or transactional class and I'm glad I didn't waste my time.

Totally agree with this. Learning commercial paper and secured transactions from Barbri was a drag and I'm sure my bar essays on those subjects sucked, but I passed, and it was way better than spending a whole semester on them.

But conversely, taking a class because the prof is awesome is often better than taking a class because you think the topic will be awesome.

[ymmv]

How much $200k really is.

How school really doesn't matter for anything other than big law...take the money.

How you're really taught nothing when you start practicing and you'll be thrown right in to the point that you want to vomit each night when u wake up in a cold sweat at 3 am.

How (especially NYC) more than half of your classmates were born on third base, have little debt bc parents pay, and have connections that you'll never have no matter how hard you work.

The last point makes me really irrationally angry, almost to the point of Occupy mode. Watching folks sail through with ease because daddy pays their loans and has besties at half the major NY firms and Fortune 500s is infuriating.

Best defense is to make friends with other poors / connection-less middle class folks and take whatever measure of pride you can in bootstrapping your whole life. Also just to focus on the task at hand without comparing yourself to others, insofar as that's possible. And to try not to be bitter about the sailors, but to congratulate them and just move on in life.

On that note, perspective is more important than anything else. Staying connected to the "real world" outside law school and remembering how much better off you have it than a massive proportion of human beings today and throughout history. It's cliche as hell, I know, but it really does work. I think pro bono work has probably kept me saner, happier, and healthier than any other part of my LS experience for this reason.

[jarofsoup]

Do not only take bar classes, but take the MBE topics--which means evidence, con law II and Crim Pro. Just makes life a bit easier.

If you bomb OCI, focus on a particular practice area.

If you are eligible to be a CPA do it.

Plan your schedule to inflate your grades 2L and 3L year. Also if you can try to schedule your finals to be as far apart as possible. I wished I did this.....

At my school there are some courses that will be like all day for 2 weekends (like PRE). These courses are awesome if you can knock out 2 units in the first month of class.

Try to take the MPRE early in the year so you can retake it if you need to. Also if you take the August administration while you are not in school you do not have to take it around finals. I passed it first time around, but some people did not and a week after sitting for the bar they have to retake it.

Take breaks, have fun. Take a day off a week if you can. I could not do this because I worked 20 hours a week while a full time student. But if you are not working you have time to chill.

[A. Nony Mouse]

The last point makes me really irrationally angry, almost to the point of Occupy mode. Watching folks sail through with ease because daddy pays their loans and has besties at half the major NY firms and Fortune 500s is infuriating.

Best defense is to make friends with other poors / connection-less middle class folks and take whatever measure of pride you can in bootstrapping your whole life. Also just to focus on the task at hand without comparing yourself to others, insofar as that's possible. And to try not to be bitter about the sailors, but to congratulate them and just move on in life.

This is probably equally true all over the T14 (wouldn't know from personal experience), but I think if you get outside the corporate NYC biglaw bubble, it's much less true in terms of legal jobs.

Of course, I realize tons of people are here specifically because they want the corporate NYC biglaw bubble...but just in case you don't.

[worldtraveler]

Can we keep this on things other than classes? There are about 90 threads on academic success in law school but far less talking about all the other stuff.

[Holly Golightly]

Do not only take bar classes, but take the MBE topics--which means evidence, con law II and Crim Pro. Just makes life a bit easier.

Plan your schedule to inflate your grades 2L and 3L year. Also if you can try to schedule your finals to be as far apart as possible. I wished I did this.....

idk about the finals stuff because we had self-scheduled finals, but other than that I disagree with the above. Don't take classes solely because they're on the bar. It can be annoying to have to learn shit only for the bar, but lots of people do it. I would recommend taking the specific classes mentioned, but just because they're awesome classes, not because of the bar.

As far as planning your schedule for grade inflation...I get it. And I'm sure there are people for whom this makes sense. I did it my first semester of 2L. Thing is, that was the semester I was least engaged and interested in my classes. After that I took classes I wanted to/with profs who I wanted to take classes from (and, as I mentioned in a previous posts, the classes you generally should take if you're planning on applying to clerkships). I loved my last three semesters of law school and took a lot more away from them (and FWIW I also had a much higher GPA those semesters despite taking several curved classes).

[Nelson]

Don't fall into the trap of obsessing over what other people are doing. Way too much of law school becomes a dick measuring contest: who got better grades, onto law review, an SA with a better firm, etc. The more you actively try to resist the competitive aspect of law school and focus on yourself, the happier you'll be.