Networking as a 0L? Forum

[Theopliske8711]

So, did people just go to firms, look up associates/partners from their prospective law school and then just chat?

[rad lulz]

So, did people just go to firms, look up associates/partners from their prospective law school and then just chat?

I did

[SplitMyPants]

He did. Especially if its a partner, they always will.

Thanks! Is it proper etiquette to offer to pay?

Sure

They'll probably then chuckle and pick up the check

And say something like "you have no money I got this"

lol, pretty much been my experience...

[Theopliske8711]

So, did people just go to firms, look up associates/partners from their prospective law school and then just chat?

I did

Okay, great! I'll definitely try this!

[bombaysippin]

So, did people just go to firms, look up associates/partners from their prospective law school and then just chat?

I did

Wait, just to make sure, you did this as a 0L or 1L?

[rad lulz]

.

[BillPackets]

Hell I was studying for the LSAT at an sbux the other day and happened to notice that a lady next to me had a paper with a logo of a big law firm in my area that said "memoranda." I told her I noticed it, asked if she worked for them, and told her that I was studying for the LSAT and blah blah.

She didn't work for them, but she did work for a mid size law firm in my area.

She ended up chatting with me for about two hours about law school admissions, where I should go, etc etc. Gave me her contact info and told me to keep her updated on my LSAT progress and admission cycle and told me that she would get me in contact with people at firms I'm interested in.

All this as someone who said their targeted schools did not include the law school she attended.

[El Principe]

He did. Especially if its a partner, they always will.

Thanks! Is it proper etiquette to offer to pay?

Much the same way your date will pick up her purse and "offer to pay" when the check comes out....

[foundingfather]

.

[apples89]

Do you guys feel its better to call or email if the recent alumni are at a reasonably large firm?

[TooOld4This]

Do you guys feel its better to call or email if the recent alumni are at a reasonably large firm?

Firm size has nothing to do with it. Email.

[apples89]

Do you guys feel its better to call or email if the recent alumni are at a reasonably large firm?

Firm size has nothing to do with it. Email.

Ok, any tips for constructing an email that won't be ignored?

[n1o2c3a4c5h6e7t]

Is it preferable to talk to an associate or a partner? If someone is in patent, and you don't have a science background, is it worthwhile to reach out to them? Is there a way to find out which firms offer 1L SAs? Is it advisable to reach out to firms that only do 2L SAs as a 0L? That seems a bit early in the game. How exactly would you stay in touch with these people over time? Send them an email at the end of a semester updating them with academic progress?

[TooOld4This]

Is it preferable to talk to an associate or a partner? If someone is in patent, and you don't have a science background, is it worthwhile to reach out to them? Is there a way to find out which firms offer 1L SAs? Is it advisable to reach out to firms that only do 2L SAs as a 0L? That seems a bit early in the game. How exactly would you stay in touch with these people over time? Send them an email at the end of a semester updating them with academic progress?

The fact that it is early is the point. You do not want to be reaching out to people when you actually need a job. It is awkward for everyone and unlikely to help.

Erase the idea that you are networking so that someone will give you a job. It almost never happens. You want to network to make yourself a more attractive candidate when you are applying for jobs. Reaching out to attorneys early can help in several ways.

• 1. You can start to figure out what types of jobs there are out there.
  2. You can figure out what different practice groups do and what the work is like.
  3. Along with 1 and 2, you can ask pretty stupid questions (as long as they are done in a somewhat thoughtful way) and they won't be held against you.
  4. You can find out how other people go to the position they are in and what worked or didn't work for them.
  5. When you have to say "why firm X" in an interview, you can bring up the fact that you've been interested in it since you had a conversation with Y back in Z. (Or that you've been meeting with attorneys for awhile now about practice A that you are interested in and they have held firm X in high esteem for that practice.)

Every now and then you will hear stories of people networking their way into meeting a person who will go to bat for them. That's great, but it should not be the expectation. That sort of thing will fall out naturally if you approach networking as a way to learn from the experience of others. It is almost never going to happen if you approach it as "give me a job."

The best targets are people who are from your law school (or undergrad), practice at a firm you are interested in, in the office you want, in the practice you want. The more of those boxes the person checks, the better, but they don't need to check all of them.

You will get different information from junior people vs senior. Both can be valuable. Don't worry about whether the firm hires 1Ls or 2Ls. This a long game, not one that you should be playing for a particular job.

You don't need to maintain a long relationship with someone. Some contacts will be one and done. Some you might click with more and seek out more specific advice as you progress through law school. If some of the people I've spoken with reached out to me after a couple of years, I would still be fine with helping them out. I wouldn't expect (and would probably get annoyed by) constant contact over time.

[n1o2c3a4c5h6e7t]

Thanks, that makes a lot of sense.

[gobosox]

So, did people just go to firms, look up associates/partners from their prospective law school and then just chat?

I did

Okay, great! I'll definitely try this!

Anyone try this with BigFed/DA offices? Also, any other methods for contacting people? I was thinking LinkedIn...

[lsfox86]

What would be an appropriate subject line for a "cold call" email to an an alumni associate?

[yossarian]

Per Harvard's advice to their 1Ls, I've been very blunt. (To be clear, I'm a 0L).

Subject: Informational Interview Request from Future schoolX Student

It seemed too forward to me at first, but I think it is better than other subtler ways to phrase it. In cases where I'm not emailing an alum of the school I'm set to attend, I drop that part and maybe include the practice area.

I've had a lot of "success" with informational interviewing these last few months.

(1) In the sense of the actual purpose of informational interviews, I've learned alot about practice areas and the state of the legal market in my target market.
(2) I've gotten my name and face in front of a alot of lawyers from alot of firms including those I want to practice in most (from my limited perspective).
(3) I've established one ongoing mentorship-y thing with a partner. It's like an every few months check in and bestowing of 45 minutes worth of wisdom. But it's amazing, and it seems like the kind of thing that could develop into a more traditional mentorship if I end up working in my city.
(4) I've gotten a few direct invitations to apply for 1L summer clerk/Associate positions.

I don't know that it has yielded a job offer yet, but per everyone in this thread, that's not the intent. I do know I am in a stronger and more knowledgeable position to be employed down the road.

One piece of advice: Don't schedule one with your dream firm first. In fact, choose firms you wouldn't want to work at for your first few. It's different than regular interviewing and the time to adjust can be useful to learn how to naturally carry the conversation.

[MT Cicero]

Great thread. I've been doing a bit of networking lately as a 0L. I would very much like to return to my mid-sized metro area after law school, so I'm focusing on recent grads who are working here from non-regional T14s (which is what I'm looking at doing). The couple folks I have reached out to thus far have been awesome about providing any help they can. I'm having lunch this weekend with someone who has done exactly what I'll be looking to do in my market.

Just don't be weird or anything, and folks tend to be quite helpful. I'm not asking for anything other than to chat, hear their story, and make an acquaintance.

[worldtraveler]

I get a lot of linkedin messages from 0Ls and from 1Ls and 2Ls. Some of them I'm perfectly happy to respond to but I probably ignore half of them. If they're asking advice on what to do in law school, classes, etc. I can easily answer that and happily tell them my opinion.
But I get a lot who basically say nothing about themselves and want a lot of detailed information on how to get a job in human rights, ask if i can put them in touch with people, ask about my credentials. If I knew that person better I would probably tell them, but I think when you send an e-mail keep in mind that you're asking someone to do you a favor, and they have no idea who the hell you are.

[yossarian]

All that said, just butchered a scheduled call with a partner at my dream firm. So, you know. Good luck out there.

[defdef]

All that said, just butchered a scheduled call with a partner at my dream firm. So, you know. Good luck out there.

What was the problem? Just asked the wrong questions?

It probably wasn't as bad as you think.

[yossarian]

No. Wasn't terrible. Couldn't imagine it having a net negative effect on someday working for that firm, but I doubt she got off the phone thinking, "what a talented, motivated young person. I'd like to have that kind of guy working under me."

Anyway, it was bad because there was a weird pretext. Follow me on this. My significant other's former employer (a business school professor) reached out to me to tell me law school is a bad choice and she has seen many of her students get screwed by it. She set me up w/ a law grad who had "bad outcomes" (6 years of biglaw that she hated and now administration at a law school that she hates). Anyway, I am obviously doing all the research I can about school and ROI and all that, but her goal was to convince me not to go. She then set me up with this partner from her former firm.

So, while I wanted to just chat about her practice, she approached the conversation from the perspective that I was trying to decide whether to go to school. (Bad impression #1: Non-commitment).

She then asked me about goals for my first job post-graduation. I mentioned that the first goal would be to service any debt (couldn't take a job that can't pay the bills). Then I explained my practice goals. She said well if your first concern is to pay debt you don't have, don't go to law school (Bad impression #2: Flawed reasoning). My point was just that in the tight market I can't think about employment outcomes w/out thinking about salary v. debt. I don't remember why I said that. I think she even asked about money/debt which is why I responded that way.

Overall it was very weird. I kept feeling like she was putting arguments in my mouth that I didn't express and defending my decision to go to law school. This was because, I'm sure, of the way her former colleague connected us. But it was just a weird pretext.

[worldtraveler]

TBF saying your goal for your job is to pay off debt really didn't answer her question and is a pretty dumb answer. She was trying to figure out what you wanted to do to advise you.

[yossarian]

You're definitely right. I messed up. We were talking about money, salary, debt when she asked. So it felt like a natural answer at the time, but she was definitely trying to change subjects.

ETA: Don't remember her phrasing but it wasn't directly goals for your first job. I just realized that's what she was actually asking in hindsight.