If you could, would you do law school in two years? Forum

[bjsesq]

Then why did you post asking about it? You seem pretty set. haha Good Luck

wait are you really gonna leave us hanging with those "recent trends" of yours?

Fucking this.

[yackob]

Should law school be 3 years? Definitely not. 2 is pushing it.

But does that mean you should take 3 years worth of classes in 2? Depends on your goals and academic proclivities. If you just want to get working at a firm ASAP go for it because your grades stop mattering after OCI. The endurance issue is of comparatively little relevance to you.

If clerking etc. is a career goal you have to consider what effect the AJD program will have on your discipline when it comes to school work and how ok you will be with people comparing your work under those conditions to those in 3 year programs at the same time. So many 3 year students become less and less focused day to day as the semesters go on I would be wary of compounding that.

If I were very committed to big law and willing to reduce my chances at clerkships I would strongly consider it just because everything after OCI would be of so little comparative importance to me anyways. But if you have other priorities I don't really see the upshot? Minimal cost savings? Feeling better about at what age you began your legal career? Thinking it will be less painful over less total time even if it's more painful day to day?

- NU Law Student

[patogordo]

graduate a year early = 1 extra year of earning potential

[yackob]

graduate a year early = 1 extra year of earning potential

What the heck is that worth though? You enjoy your life/work/money as it comes- it doesn't suddenly become more important to you when you count it all up at the end.

[bjsesq]

graduate a year early = 1 extra year of earning potential

What the heck is that worth though? You enjoy your life/work/work as it happens- it doesn't suddenly become more important to you when you count it all up at the end.

It may in many respects. Retirement, investment, less time for interest to compound, etc.

--------Edited because you edited out the lulz

[spleenworship]

3L is a giant joke and waste of time and I would slap a baby right now if doing so would let me graduate.

[patogordo]

graduate a year early = 1 extra year of earning potential

What the heck is that worth though? You enjoy your life/work/money as it comes- it doesn't suddenly become more important to you when you count it all up at the end.

you're telling me you wouldn't take an extra year of golfinsailing in retirement over a third year of law school?

[mirroroferised7]

I really appreciate the discussion, you guys.

I think, for me personally, I don't like the idea of sitting around for an extra year, waiting to work. Most people seem to agree that 3L is bit unnecessary, and you have a lot of downtime. I don't like downtime, especially when it's costing me $60k+interest.

I do like the idea of getting out into the working world that much earlier.

I'm still waiting on a scholarship offer from NU (Mylsn says I can expect around $90k), but outside of that, the only other offer I have that I'm seriously considering is a near-full-ride from UCLA. I'm held at CLS. My biggest concern with the AJD program is starting classes in May, when I could be waiting on an offer from CLS (with a very low probably of scholarship money). That would be the only reason I'm hesitating to commit to the AJD.

[wojo98]

3L is a giant joke and waste of time and I would slap a baby right now if doing so would let me graduate.

Literally laughed at my desk.

[worldtraveler]

I really appreciate the discussion, you guys.

I think, for me personally, I don't like the idea of sitting around for an extra year, waiting to work. Most people seem to agree that 3L is bit unnecessary, and you have a lot of downtime. I don't like downtime, especially when it's costing me $60k+interest.

I do like the idea of getting out into the working world that much earlier.

I'm still waiting on a scholarship offer from NU (Mylsn says I can expect around $90k), but outside of that, the only other offer I have that I'm seriously considering is a near-full-ride from UCLA. I'm held at CLS. My biggest concern with the AJD program is starting classes in May, when I could be waiting on an offer from CLS (with a very low probably of scholarship money). That would be the only reason I'm hesitating to commit to the AJD.

Are you somebody who can normally deal with a heavier class load and a lot of stress? Do you have relevant professional work experience?

I didn't do a 2 year degree, but a I did a joint JD/MA program condensed into 4 years. The course load was pretty rough sometimes and I definitely had more work and more stress than a lot of my classmates. It really inhibited my ability to do externships or spend time networking and the like. That is something to consider.

If you're somebody who can handle it, and really knows what you're getting into with a legal job (because it sounds like you lose your ability to do a 1L job?), it would probably work for you. It also sounds like if you want to publish during law school, get involved in clinics or other time-intensive things, it would be a lot harder. This might not matter that much but really consider it before you make a decision.

[splitsplat]

If you have good work experience and a strong resume + interview skills- definitely do it. If you are a K-JD... I would be really wary, because while most of the AJDs I know do have jobs lined up, the ones that don't definitely had weaker resumes/work experience.

[mirroroferised7]

Are you somebody who can normally deal with a heavier class load and a lot of stress? Do you have relevant professional work experience?

I work incredibly well under stress, and have never worked fewer than 60 hours a week since graduating from UG. I perform best when I'm handling multiple projects at once on tight deadlines.

If you have good work experience and a strong resume + interview skills- definitely do it. If you are a K-JD... I would be really wary, because while most of the AJDs I know do have jobs lined up, the ones that don't definitely had weaker resumes/work experience.

I have a strong resume, and killer interview skills, but I do not have relevant legal experience. Everything I know is from hanging out with a few lawyer friends, and friends who work in the admin side of law firms.

[twenty 8]

Two years would have been optimal for me. The thing is it will never happen unless the schools can somehow benefit. My idea was one price for a JD. For instance if the yearly cost is $30K I would pay $90K for three years but $75K for two years. Had I moved on after my second year and the school filled my empty seat with a $30K student they would have profited by an additional $15K for that seat. I would have benefited by paying $15K less while earning a firm salary for that third year. Win-Win.

Given that applications are down law schools would vigorously oppose any action by the ABA that cut a year’s worth of revenue..... short of an idea that produced an upside for the school.

[Pokemon]

My idea would be to force students to specialize on their third year.

I mean firms complain that first-year associates are useless. Law students complain that third-year is useless. Something can be done to help them both.
Make students choose at this point a focus: if they are going for tax, make their third year basically a tax llm. If they are going for lit, force them to take civ-pro 2. If they decide transactional, make them take secured transactions and securities regulation and turn into a mini-mba. Make a clinic mandatory as a 3L. Whatever, they can come up with their own curriculum, but the basic idea would be to alleviate (somewhat) the problem of useless third-year, and useless first-year attorney.

[ScottRiqui]

My idea would be to force students to specialize on their third year.

I mean firms complain that first-year associates are useless. Law students complain that third-year is useless. Something can be done to help them both.
Make students choose at this point a focus: if they are going for tax, make their third year basically a tax llm. If they are going for lit, force them to take civ-pro 2. If they decide transactional, make them take secured transactions and securities regulation and turn into a mini-mba. Make a clinic mandatory as a 3L. Whatever, they can come up with their own curriculum, but the basic idea would be to alleviate (somewhat) the problem of useless third-year, and useless first-year attorney.

I think the current system, where the students graduate as generalists (for the most part) and the firms know that, might be better for the students when it comes to finding a job. The number of jobs is going to be the same either way, and if you specialize during your third year, you run the risk of being on the "wrong" track compared to what the firms may want that year. Assuming that the firms' response to the new arrangement will be that they'll want a prospective candidate to have had a particular 3L experience in order to fill a certain job, you've basically self-selected into a smaller subset of the available jobs, rather than being able to talk your way into any of them.

[spleenworship]

My idea would be to force students to specialize on their third year.

I mean firms complain that first-year associates are useless. Law students complain that third-year is useless. Something can be done to help them both.
Make students choose at this point a focus: if they are going for tax, make their third year basically a tax llm. If they are going for lit, force them to take civ-pro 2. If they decide transactional, make them take secured transactions and securities regulation and turn into a mini-mba. Make a clinic mandatory as a 3L. Whatever, they can come up with their own curriculum, but the basic idea would be to alleviate (somewhat) the problem of useless third-year, and useless first-year attorney.

I think the current system, where the students graduate as generalists (for the most part) and the firms know that, might be better for the students when it comes to finding a job. The number of jobs is going to be the same either way, and if you specialize during your third year, you run the risk of being on the "wrong" track compared to what the firms may want that year. Assuming that the firms' response to the new arrangement will be that they'll want a prospective candidate to have had a particular 3L experience in order to fill a certain job, you've basically self-selected into a smaller subset of the available jobs, rather than being able to talk your way into any of them.

This is also my opinion. Even as a "generalist" I've already specialized too much for about half the jobs out there. Cutting another 30% strikes me as insane without a guaranteed job upon graduation. I mean, if I knew if have a job if specialize in whatever they wanted. Anything. Fricking Bird Law. Whatever. But since that isn't happening...

[A. Nony Mouse]

I agree with spleen and ScottRiqui - based on what they said, but also because unless you actually work for the employer you're going to work for once you've graduated, I don't think more coursework is going to help address the "useless first-year" problem. It's not that you don't know enough academic material, it's that you don't know how to apply it in the specific context of what your employer does and how they do it.

[twenty 8]

In looking back at 3L a question I have is…. did anyone do something special that turned out to be of great assistance?

Given the culture of my firm, during my SA the one thing that became obvious was to take golf lessons (seriously). I did, it was fun and I certainly see why people love it, but nevertheless not a topic I care to expound upon.

[spleenworship]

In looking back at 3L a question I have is…. did anyone do something special that turned out to be of great assistance?

Given the culture of my firm, during my SA the one thing that became obvious was to take golf lessons (seriously). I did, it was fun and I certainly see why people love it, but nevertheless not a topic I care to expound upon.

Doing a clinic with the local PDs got me multiple interviews. No job yet though.

Also, I could've done that clinic spring of 2L.

[NYC-WVU]

0L: Having worked for quite a while, I am not particularly interested in rushing to get back to work, so I didn't even consider trying to graduate in two years. And if 3L is as easy as everyone says, I'm looking forward to the pace. It's probably the last time I'll be able to sleep solid hours and enjoy weekends for a long time, and worth the opportunity cost (paying tuition might be annoying though.) That's not to say I don't enjoy working, I'm just not interested in making law school any harder/shorter for the benefit of working again sooner.

[bjsesq]

Then why did you post asking about it? You seem pretty set. haha Good Luck

wait are you really gonna leave us hanging with those "recent trends" of yours?

Fucking this.

Fucking welching pussy.

[spleenworship]

0L: Having worked for quite a while, I am not particularly interested in rushing to get back to work, so I didn't even consider trying to graduate in two years. And if 3L is as easy as everyone says, I'm looking forward to the pace. It's probably the last time I'll be able to sleep solid hours and enjoy weekends for a long time, and worth the opportunity cost (paying tuition might be annoying though.) That's not to say I don't enjoy working, I'm just not interested in making law school any harder/shorter for the benefit of working again sooner.

Read the title of the section of the forum, 0L. It says ask a law student/graduate. And then OP went on to specify she wants 3Ls and grads. So, yeah, stop offering advice you don't know about. You have no idea if its worth the opportunity cost.

[NYC-WVU]

0L: Having worked for quite a while, I am not particularly interested in rushing to get back to work, so I didn't even consider trying to graduate in two years. And if 3L is as easy as everyone says, I'm looking forward to the pace. It's probably the last time I'll be able to sleep solid hours and enjoy weekends for a long time, and worth the opportunity cost (paying tuition might be annoying though.) That's not to say I don't enjoy working, I'm just not interested in making law school any harder/shorter for the benefit of working again sooner.

Read the title of the section of the forum, 0L. It says ask a law student/graduate. And then OP went on to specify she wants 3Ls and grads. So, yeah, stop offering advice you don't know about. You have no idea if its worth the opportunity cost.

You're right. She was not asking me. And I apologize to the OP for giving my thoughts.
On the other-hand, while I hate to divert the thread from OPs question, your response was so dick, I just have to say something. As far as offering advice that I "don't know about," you really have no idea what I know and what I don't know. And I don't need to know anything about law school to answer the question of whether an extra year in school is worth it. I've probably got more years of education than you, even with your years of law school, and I almost certainly have more law firm experience, doing exactly the same shit that I'm going to be doing as an attorney. So I think I have some justification in saying whether that 3L year kicking it is worth the lost ~$170,000 in opportunity cost. And, again, I think it's worth it, which is why I didn't bother applying to NUs AJD program.

[spleenworship]

0L: Having worked for quite a while, I am not particularly interested in rushing to get back to work, so I didn't even consider trying to graduate in two years. And if 3L is as easy as everyone says, I'm looking forward to the pace. It's probably the last time I'll be able to sleep solid hours and enjoy weekends for a long time, and worth the opportunity cost (paying tuition might be annoying though.) That's not to say I don't enjoy working, I'm just not interested in making law school any harder/shorter for the benefit of working again sooner.

Read the title of the section of the forum, 0L. It says ask a law student/graduate. And then OP went on to specify she wants 3Ls and grads. So, yeah, stop offering advice you don't know about. You have no idea if its worth the opportunity cost.

You're right. She was not asking me. And I apologize to the OP for giving my thoughts.
On the other-hand, while I hate to divert the thread from OPs question, your response was so dick, I just have to say something. As far as offering advice that I "don't know about," you really have no idea what I know and what I don't know. And I don't need to know anything about law school to answer the question of whether an extra year in school is worth it. I've probably got more years of education than you, even with your years of law school, and I almost certainly have more law firm experience, doing exactly the same shit that I'm going to be doing as an attorney. So I think I have some justification in saying whether that 3L year kicking it is worth the lost ~$170,000 in opportunity cost. And, again, I think it's worth it, which is why I didn't bother applying to NUs AJD program.

1. That's less than 10% of my total available dickishness.

2. Grow a thicker skin or you'll find law intolerable.

3. I'm glad you are proud of yourself and whatnot, but paralegal isn't the same as a law student or lawyer. I don't care if you have a fricking PhD, you aren't a 3L.

4. Until you have done 3L (or are a 2L watching 3Ls at the least) you really don't know. You really don't. I thought 3L might be useful until last year. Lol, I was an idiot.

5. Get out of here and stop offering advice in a forum you know you aren't supposed to be offering advice in. Go back to the prelaw area unless you have a question and stop crapping up this thread.

[NYC-WVU]

Speaking of talking about things you don't know anything about. I'm not a paralegal. I'm a patent prosecutor and intend to primarily be a patent prosecutor as an attorney. I'm not particularly proud of that; it's just a fact. And, as a result, I think I have a fair understanding of what my employment will be like after graduating, since I already do much of the work I will be doing as a lawyer. While I don't know anything about the third year of law school, I think I have a reasonable basis for making an assertion about whether it's worth it to get into the legal field as quickly as possible. Again, if 3L is as easy as everyone says it is, I still say: enjoy it while you can. Now, if you're a sucker enough to pay 50K+ per year in tuition, then maybe you don't want to stick around. But I don't think the OP is worried about that, since one option being considered is a near-full ride at UCLA.