Monterey College of Law - an accredited non-ABA Option Forum

[North]

Jesus fuck that's creepy.

[imperspective]

...

[North]

Someone needs to ban this dean. At first he was annoying, but now he/she/it is getting weird and stalkerish. Isn't that grounds for getting banned on this site? Or, is the only banable infraction posting test questions?

If I were a mod I might have locked this thread because the OP is just adspam. But nah, even though it's extra creepy to get f7'd in the on-topics, dude's done nothing banworthy. And like I said, we want him around because he's just manufacturing negative attention for a school that previously flew under TLS's radar.

[Dingo Starr]

For example, I am not aware of a single law or law related job in our tri-county area that would pay enough as a starting salary to service a $150K law school tuition loan, plus interest. Not one. Senior DAs, superior Court Judges, (and small law school deans) in these communities make about what is advertised as starting associate salaries in BigLaw. And yet, we still need starting DAs, Public Defenders, and new private practitioners to serve our community. What I have suggested from the very beginning is that non-urban markets that share this characteristic would benefit from a law school model that provides legal education at a cost that reflects the reality of the local and regional markets. In our case, MCL has been doing that for 43 years, so my point is that it is possible.

Sounds good, right?
My question is this: what kind of scholarships do you offer? If my numbers set me up for a full ride at an ABA school (and I only have loans to cover COL), what incentive is there for me to attend a CalBar school? It is not as though this kind of school competes in the USNWR. My numbers, then, are effectively useless as leverage for scholarship money. Is this not the case?
As someone who was contemplating JFK before reading TLS, and opening my eyes, I am genuinely curious.

[TheSpanishMain]

I may be dense, but what is so creepy? Clicking on North's profile and seeing he's at UVA?

[North]

I may be dense, but what is so creepy? Clicking on North's profile and seeing he's at UVA?

Had to dig to find that it's at sticker. I've mentioned that in only 4 posts out of 2,700. But it's NBD, it's a good dig. Doesn't make MCL not a trap school and this thread terrible for MCL's internet image though.

[BigZuck]

I may be dense, but what is so creepy? Clicking on North's profile and seeing he's at UVA?

Had to dig to find that it's at sticker. I've mentioned that in only 4 posts out of 2,700. But it's NBD, it's a good dig. Doesn't make MCL not a trap school and this thread terrible for MCL's internet image though.

Just a really weird thing for someone who doesn't appreciate "bombastic stalkers" to go out and dig up.

I apologize North, I think I started it all when I said in his other thread that he was either lying or presenting misleading employment statistics. But of course he went ahead and posted the same data in a misleading way in this thread, so...

I also think the law school in paradise article (or whatever that is) is a weird thing to post on TLS once every 7 years: http://www.top-law-schools.com/archives ... f=4&t=2241

Is the point of the school to cater to working class adults who are already established in the community? Or is it a destination that draws people in from around the state (and the country?) to attend law classes between rounds of golf at Pebble Beach?

[cron1834]

I don't think that the existence of a non-ABA school is an automatic travesty, especially one that's been around for a long time (starting up in a dumpster-fire legal economy, like Indiana Tech, is farfar worse).

However, the dishonesty in comparing all-employment %s at one school to lawyer-employment %s nationwide is flagrant. Intentionally misleading and scummy. Refusing to address this after repeated claims and repeated responses is likewise dirty. Come on, Dean. Own up to this.

[MCL Law Dean]

How much do you make each year, before taxes?

From my law school salary, about $175,000 plus a car.

[MCL Law Dean]

I don't think that the existence of a non-ABA school is an automatic travesty, especially one that's been around for a long time (starting up in a dumpster-fire legal economy, like Indiana Tech, is farfar worse).

However, the dishonesty in comparing all-employment %s at one school to lawyer-employment %s nationwide is flagrant. Intentionally misleading and scummy. Refusing to address this after repeated claims and repeated responses is likewise dirty. Come on, Dean. Own up to this.

You haven't been following the posts here or in the referenced posts under law school admissions. No refusal at all, just no reason to repeat the same information. The MCL 2009-2012 alumni employment survey results are posted following as close to LST and NALP stats as possible, given our very small cohorts. You are certainly welcome to draw your own conclusions, of course, so am I. Since the posters most outraged seem to be safely ensconced in east coast T1 law schools, I am not quite sure what point is trying to be made. You are not, and never were our market or the market for any non-urban regional law school that serves the needs of communities where there is no BigLaw, BigCorp, or BigGov. However, outside of this bubble, there are alternative models of legal education that provide credible, sustainable programs. I am not sure why that idea is so threatening to some . . .

I just finished reading an article discussing racism and poverty law. The discussion was about how individual bias can influence effective client representation. It provided a surprisingly hopeful viewpoint.

If categorization and bias come so easily, are people doomed to prejudice, xenophobia, and racism? It's pretty clear that we are susceptible to prejudice and that there is an unconscious desire to divide the world into "us" and "them." Fortunately, however, research also shows that prejudices are fluid and that when we become conscious of our biases we can take active—and successful—steps to combat them.

[MCL Law Dean]

I may be dense, but what is so creepy? Clicking on North's profile and seeing he's at UVA?

One of my mentors once made the point that truly great trial lawyers can walk into the courtroom and sit at either table and make an equally effective argument. They are successful because they know both the law and the lawyers.

[BigZuck]

Multiple people called you out for presenting misleading statistics and you're really going to roll with "I'm just interpreting?" I guess an inability to decipher simple statistics and/or the absence of basic reading comprehension skills is a better look than just being a straight up liar but if I were you I would strongly considering doing a little damage control there. That plus "haha kid, I hope you get debt pwned while I enjoy my 175K plus car in paradise!" really does not make you or the school look good.

[Rahviveh]

The OP reads like a bad onion article.

EDIT: Btw monterey is only paradise if you're 65+.

[Mal Reynolds]

How much do you make each year, before taxes?

From my law school salary, about $175,000 plus a car.

Try Monterey Law! It's a totally different model of legal education!

(Makes an absurd amount of money the same as any other law school dean)

[North]

Hey mal bro FYI you're not his market so your analysis of the hypocrisy isn't welcome here. Only people not ENSCONCED in schools with decent employment outcomes allowed. You're lucky though because this duder can argue from every single side of a table and isn't afraid to get House of Cards with your poasting history.

[Hipster but Athletic]

$175k isn't an absurd amount of money

[Mal Reynolds]

$175k isn't an absurd amount of money

Relative to the benefits he's conferring, yes, yes it is Mr. Silverspoon.

[Hipster but Athletic]

$175k isn't an absurd amount of money

Relative to the benefits he's conferring, yes, yes it is Mr. Silverspoon.

Is that even a sentence?

[patogordo]

$175k isn't an absurd amount of money

Relative to the benefits he's conferring, yes, yes it is Mr. Silverspoon.

Is that even a sentence?

yes, yes it is.

[Hipster but Athletic]

Well I don't understand it well enough to rebut it. I just know it's dumb.

I guess I want to know more about:
*What benefits he is speaking about
*Who he confers benefits to
*The normal salary to benefit conferral ratio

[patogordo]

Well I don't understand it well enough to rebut it. I just know it's dumb.

I guess I want to know more about:
*What benefits he is speaking about
*Who he confers benefits to
*The normal salary to benefit conferral ratio

just punch the molar mass of silver into wolfram alpha

[Hipster but Athletic]

Still confused

[Dingo Starr]

For example, I am not aware of a single law or law related job in our tri-county area that would pay enough as a starting salary to service a $150K law school tuition loan, plus interest. Not one. Senior DAs, superior Court Judges, (and small law school deans) in these communities make about what is advertised as starting associate salaries in BigLaw. And yet, we still need starting DAs, Public Defenders, and new private practitioners to serve our community. What I have suggested from the very beginning is that non-urban markets that share this characteristic would benefit from a law school model that provides legal education at a cost that reflects the reality of the local and regional markets. In our case, MCL has been doing that for 43 years, so my point is that it is possible.

Sounds good, right?
My question is this: what kind of scholarships do you offer? If my numbers set me up for a full ride at an ABA school (and I only have loans to cover COL), what incentive is there for me to attend a CalBar school? It is not as though this kind of school competes in the USNWR. My numbers, then, are effectively useless as leverage for scholarship money. Is this not the case?
As someone who was contemplating JFK before reading TLS, and opening my eyes, I am genuinely curious.

Before this thread gets locked, or my post gets stuck on the invisible last page, could I have my questions answered?
Pretty please?

[Gooner91]

What is cost of living like in this area? Seems expensive. If the jobs you can get even assuming a positive outcome cannot finance a 150k debt out of this school, is it enough to pay off the debt it costs to attend?
What would you estimate the COA is? Assuming you are financing your education through loans and do not have any financial support from family.

[worldtraveler]

Why should anyone choose your law school over People's College of the Law, which is by far the cheapest non-accredited option?