0L needing some advice Forum

[GreatNorth87]

Simply being on the internet doesn't mean you can should be rude to others. A simple mistake was made. Close out the thread, take a deep breath, and move on with your life. Worse things have happened in society beyond someone accidentally posting in the incorrect thread on TLS.

FTFY. Obviously we can.

Thanks for fixing that. See final two sentences. It might help you grow as a person. The point of TLS is to facilitate the exchange of information about law school. Impolite dialogue simply inhibits the purpose and function of this site.

[TTRansfer]

This is such a great thread for the transfer board.

[TTRansfer]

Simply being on the internet doesn't mean you can should be rude to others. A simple mistake was made. Close out the thread, take a deep breath, and move on with your life. Worse things have happened in society beyond someone accidentally posting in the incorrect thread on TLS.

FTFY. Obviously we can.

Thanks for fixing that. See final two sentences. It might help you grow as a person. The point of TLS is to facilitate the exchange of information about law school. Impolite dialogue simply inhibits the purpose and function of this site.

The point is also to read posts that say don't post shit like this on this particular board.

[spleenworship]

Richie: Yes, I am fluent in French and Spanish.

Go to McGill in Montreal.
Or a strong regional school in an area you have contacts.

oh, and good luck negotiating with American. I couldn't get crap from them with numbers a little better than yours.

[futurejdgirl]

Simply being on the internet doesn't mean you can should be rude to others. A simple mistake was made. Close out the thread, take a deep breath, and move on with your life. Worse things have happened in society beyond someone accidentally posting in the incorrect thread on TLS.

FTFY. Obviously we can.

Thanks for fixing that. See final two sentences. It might help you grow as a person. The point of TLS is to facilitate the exchange of information about law school. Impolite dialogue simply inhibits the purpose and function of this site.

The point is also to read posts that say don't post shit like this on this particular board.

In the same thought process, you could also refrain from reading posts that OBVIOUSLY don't apply to you, clearly apparent from the title. Also, refraining from wasting your precious time posting a snarky comment. But hey, like I said earlier, your time wasted, not mine. I have no idea why people are still posting on this thread with such negativity.

[Coolgrnmen]

Richie: Yes, I am fluent in French and Spanish.

Go to McGill in Montreal.
Or a strong regional school in an area you have contacts.

oh, and good luck negotiating with American. I couldn't get crap from them with numbers a little better than yours.

Wouldn't it be funny if Canada had a law school called "Canadian?" Then you could transfer from American to Canadian...

[20130312]

I have no idea why people are still posting on this thread with such negativity.

Oh, you're going to love law school and legal employment in general.

[goodthings]

...

[sunynp]

Is there a way to convince people that working hard does not correlate to grades? Everyone thinks that they will work 10X harder than the other people in their school or in their jobs. This has to end.

I think we should make a post of the top ten commandments of law school.
At least one would be Do not expect hard work to earn you grades. Another would be : You are at the mercy of the curve.

[futurejdgirl]

Unless you dream of being a government bureaucrat (and if you do, that's fine), I would caution against the assumption that the MA in International Affairs will be of any added value, particularly in international employment. American's IA reputation is decent in DC, but travels poorly. Just a factor to consider.

What do you mean by "travels poorly"? I'm not exactly accustomed to the terms thrown around here, sorry if that's an obvious one. Are you saying it's actually looked at NEGATIVELY away from DC? SIS actually has a really good reputation for International Affairs - FP ranked in 10th best in the world. I've looked at many job postings for international orgs, NGOS, requiring advanced degrees in international affairs. Most of these job postings are for jobs in different countries so I don't see why the MA in international affairs would be a negative thing? Maybe I'm misunderstanding what you're saying?

[spleenworship]

Is there a way to convince people that working hard does not correlate to grades? Everyone thinks that they will work 10X harder than the other people in their school or in their jobs. This has to end.

I think we should make a post of the top ten commandments of law school.
At least one would be Do not expect hard work to earn you grades. Another would be : You are at the mercy of the curve.

+1000

[futurejdgirl]

Is there a way to convince people that working hard does not correlate to grades? Everyone thinks that they will work 10X harder than the other people in their school or in their jobs. This has to end.

I think we should make a post of the top ten commandments of law school.
At least one would be Do not expect hard work to earn you grades. Another would be : You are at the mercy of the curve.

I didn't mean to make one of those posts proclaiming that I'll be the one exceptional student who does land a 100k job because I worked harder than everyone else. However, I do think its reasonable to conclude that those at the top of the class will have a better chance of landing jobs. That's a very small amount of people. Following that, the rest of the class will have a harder time. The rest of the class = a lot more people than the top of the class. Hence, a lot of people, presumably NOT at the top of their class, that create depressing blogs and scathing forum posts because of their difficulties. That's why you would see more of those negative posts rather than positive omg yay law school! ones. Nonetheless, the economy and job market has hit everyone terribly and I understand there are other factors to this, but I think the importance of this one often goes overlooked.

P.S. I know being at the top of your class = more than JUST hardwork, so I'm not saying that my hardwork will get me there. Just expression my own opinions and thoughts on this.

[floggered]

Unless you dream of being a government bureaucrat (and if you do, that's fine), I would caution against the assumption that the MA in International Affairs will be of any added value, particularly in international employment. American's IA reputation is decent in DC, but travels poorly. Just a factor to consider.

What do you mean by "travels poorly"? I'm not exactly accustomed to the terms thrown around here, sorry if that's an obvious one. Are you saying it's actually looked at NEGATIVELY away from DC?

(S)He means that the extra degree will carry no weight outside of DC (and even there, probably very little). It's unlikely that US legal employers will view it negatively, but most will view it as superfluous.

SIS actually has a really good reputation for International Affairs - FP ranked in 10th best in the world. I've looked at many job postings for international orgs, NGOS, requiring advanced degrees in international affairs. Most of these job postings are for jobs in different countries so I don't see why the MA in international affairs would be a negative thing? Maybe I'm misunderstanding what you're saying?

If you want to do these sorts of things, I wouldn't advise going to law school. Having a US JD rarely, if ever, opens doors that an international BA, Masters, or PHD wouldn't do better. And, as many have already noted, being saddled with an albatross of debt from American won't put you in pole position to accept these jobs even assuming you were to get one.

[JR1988]

WTF why is this thread still going on?!?! She's a freaking 0L!! So pissed!

[goodthings]

...

[dailygrind]

A little late in getting here, but we're moving on up. To the east side.

OP: don't start topics in any of the Students and Graduates forums (Forum for law students, Transfer forum, or Employment forum) until you're a law student.

[dingbat]

I might just have to deal with the loans for a year, work my ass off, get the grades, and get scholarships for the remaining years and maybe, if I'm lucky, transfer.

Do you think that working your ass off is enough? You can bet that the vast majority of your fellow classmates are going to be working just as hard as you are, becuase they are also trying to be at the top of the class.
You should not bank on future "maybe", because odds are you'll be disappointed.

I do think its reasonable to conclude that those at the top of the class will have a better chance of landing jobs. That's a very small amount of people. Following that, the rest of the class will have a harder time. The rest of the class = a lot more people than the top of the class. Hence, a lot of people, presumably NOT at the top of their class, that create depressing blogs and scathing forum posts because of their difficulties.

I don't really follow the logic of this bit (Tautology)
But yes, the top of the class has a better chance than the rest of the class. However, do you know what your odds are of being in the top 10% of your class? 1 in 10.

As for working in Europe, Law degrees do not travel well internationally.
For one thing, large parts of your legal education will be based on case law, which has absolutely no relevance whatsoever in France, Germany, or anywhere else in Europe besides the U.K.
Secondly, most of Europe requires something akin to an apprenticeship in order to be allowed to practice law there.
As for prestige, in Europe, no one has heard of American (just like very few people outside of France have heard of Université Paris Ouest Nanterre la Défense, as opposed to, say, the Sorbonne), so that will have little weight.

If you really want to work in Europe, you're probably better off getting just your MA in International Affairs, rather than getting a JD. You probably can't get into HYP, or anything similar, so be aware that it's an uphill struggle. To apply directly to a foreing country will be tough, as you'll be competing with people from more prestigious schools, or who don't need work permits.
Your best bet is to find a company/organization in the U.S. that will send you out - but that will probably require you to put a few years in over here before they'll go through the trouble and expense of sending you abroad.

Please don't get me wrong, I want to encourage you. Working/living in a foreing country is an amazing experiene and I want you to have that opportunity. Getting a JD except from a top school is unlikely to help you do so and will only cost a boatload of money.
Also, it's hard to understand going into it, but law school debt is a big, big, big issue that will affect your life more than you can possibly realize. Don't take it on for no reason.

[worldtraveler]

You can't work in the EU without an EU work visa. Unless you marry a European, good luck getting that.

The jobs you're talking about will almost be next to impossible to get with a degree from American. They are next to impossible to get from Harvard.

[futurejdgirl]

Thanks all for the advice, especially those who took the time to private message me helpful tips. Really makes me glad I started posting on TLS.

I do know that working in Europe requires a work visa and that often makes things more difficult but there are companies that will sponsor you and aid you through the process. Obviously the transition would be highly difficult and such companies may be few and far in between which is why I'm aiming for a dual degree.

Anyways, I might be taking a year off to teach English in Spain - but it depends because I might not find out about my placement until AFTER seat deposit deadlines have passed and also because of some family problems. (being far from home might not be feasible given certain conditions/circumstances going on)

However, American University still remains at the top of my list, as of yet. Specifically their partnerships with schools abroad and the applicability of those degrees to countries there makes it a really attractive option to me. For example:

First year at Nanterre
To pursue a law career in France, students must complete a four year program. WCL students will enroll in the last year of the Master I program. This degree is intended for students who want to be fully qualified to practice law in France as it provides in-depth French legal training.
Students may choose any of the Master I offered at Nanterre:
Master I, mention Droit Privé
Master I, mention Droit des Affaires
Master I, mention Droit International et Européen
Dual degree graduates will be eligible to meet the requirements for the bar in both jurisdictions as any other law graduate from WCL and Nanterre. Students may decide to take the bar exam in the United States first and then apply in France to take the equivalency exam to gain entrance into the French bar.

I'm very cautious about the debt but as I've said before, it seems unavoidable. With my numbers, even with a year or two of work experience, I'll be forced to take on debt at any t-1 school.. unless I do TFA or join the army, which frankly is not something I'm interested in. Thank you for all the cautions about debt but I understand it very well and don't need anymore advice in this regard - I'll be negotiating as much as possible and will hope for the best.

[Mce252]

Thanks all for the advice, especially those who took the time to private message me helpful tips. Really makes me glad I started posting on TLS.

I do know that working in Europe requires a work visa and that often makes things more difficult but there are companies that will sponsor you and aid you through the process. Obviously the transition would be highly difficult and such companies may be few and far in between which is why I'm aiming for a dual degree.

Anyways, I might be taking a year off to teach English in Spain - but it depends because I might not find out about my placement until AFTER seat deposit deadlines have passed and also because of some family problems. (being far from home might not be feasible given certain conditions/circumstances going on)

However, American University still remains at the top of my list, as of yet. Specifically their partnerships with schools abroad and the applicability of those degrees to countries there makes it a really attractive option to me. For example:

First year at Nanterre
To pursue a law career in France, students must complete a four year program. WCL students will enroll in the last year of the Master I program. This degree is intended for students who want to be fully qualified to practice law in France as it provides in-depth French legal training.
Students may choose any of the Master I offered at Nanterre:
Master I, mention Droit Privé
Master I, mention Droit des Affaires
Master I, mention Droit International et Européen
Dual degree graduates will be eligible to meet the requirements for the bar in both jurisdictions as any other law graduate from WCL and Nanterre. Students may decide to take the bar exam in the United States first and then apply in France to take the equivalency exam to gain entrance into the French bar.

I'm very cautious about the debt but as I've said before, it seems unavoidable. With my numbers, even with a year or two of work experience, I'll be forced to take on debt at any t-1 school.. unless I do TFA or join the army, which frankly is not something I'm interested in. Thank you for all the cautions about debt but I understand it very well and don't need anymore advice in this regard - I'll be negotiating as much as possible and will hope for the best.

Join the army.