Fordham 1L Taking Questions Forum

[whymeohgodno]

Just wondering since you aren't going for biglaw, I'm assuming you got $$$ to fordham?

While you may have had a different reason for posting this, I'm assuming for sake of argument that you're concerned about the cost of law school, or have read a bunch of hardcore TLS gunners saying things like, "Law school isn't worth it if you have to pay for it," and found solace in their points.

I know that TLS' main motto is: Go to HLS at all costs, maybe CCN, the rest of the t-14 with a scholarship, and maybe a tier 1 school with full-or-close-to-full scholarship. This mentality is fine for a number of people (one thing to keep in mind about the TLS community is that it is a FRACTION of the actual law school community), however this is not how the majority of students look at law school. Yes, we can argue about the utility of paying X number of dollars for a degree AND taking out loans to pay for it DESPITE the possibility that you will have a difficult time paying back said loans. I'd even concede that this is a fair and highly persuasive argument not to go to law school if your main focus is the economic return. While I'm not suggesting this shouldn't be a factor in your decision, I am stating that many people have very different reasons for attending law school.

Some people come to law school because they really want to be lawyers. Some attend because their family will pay for it. Some attend because they want to change careers. Some attend simply because they don't have anything better to do, or think this is the last and only way they'll ever be successful. And yes, some people attend because they've convinced themselves that by reading 6 casebooks, writing 6 exams, and doing 4 legal writing assignments that they're guaranteed a 160k starting salary and a life of luxury.

The point is, everybody has their own motivation for attending law school. Some people have unrealistic goals (ex.: attending Fordham guarantees you a spot at a V50 firm, or that a JD will guarantee them at least some prestigious job), and later in their law school and professional careers they might struggle to comprehend how they so grossly exaggerated their expectations. But, in general, the people I've met are aware of the economic situation, know that it's tough to get the job they want straight out of school, but are optimistic that they can work hard and establish themselves in the world at some point. The degree is really only the start of your career. You actually have to make it work, whether you land big firm job, a position with a small shop, a government position, or, hell, you decide at the last minute to open up a bar with your buddy who just got his MBA.

In the end, you have to work hard to achieve your goals. If the money issue really wears on you, don't make the investment. Outside of a very narrow range of schools, law school does not guarantee you any set salaries. It's up to you to decide whether, for you, it's worth the time and money to be a lawyer whether or not you've got a nice office and motions to file on behalf of Fortune 500 companies. I know people are baffled that after 7 years of higher education, you might only be making 50k while working 70 hour weeks. But, you know the score. So, you can make the choice.

Of course this doesn't really say anything good or bad about Fordham, but I'll leave that to nygrrrl since she's Fordham's best cheerleader!

While I agree with most of your post the bold part is what makes the market crowded. Everyone "assumes" that with hard work and perseverance they will be able to pay back their debt and find at least a decent job practicing law. This just isn't true.

Most if not everyone works hard at law school - yet most people don't find a job that can even pay back the debt.

Don't assume that you will be a special snowflake and that somehow everyone else who fails in the job market is doing so because they are trying less than you or because they are somehow less motivated. The chances are if you don't go to a top school or go to a school with $$$ or go to a school and graduated top of your class, you will be stuck with 200k debt without a job that can pay it back.

It's not about making money - I know. But it's about being able to at least pay back a 200k debt...

[nygrrrl]

Don't assume that you will be a special snowflake and that somehow everyone else who fails in the job market is doing so because they are trying less than you or because they are somehow less motivated.

Hm. I'm going to GENTLY wade into this, but only for a moment. Personally, I only know a few people in our class who have the Special Snowflake Disorder... the overwhelming majority of the class is very aware of the realities and very grounded. Mind you, that could be because I'm in the evening program: many of my friends have come to law school from other careers, many (including myself) are still working. I think most of us have very realistic reasons for attending law school and very realistic goals, for when we get out. That's not to negate your points, wmogn - it's a sucky time to be graduating from law school/trying to get a job, that's for sure.
THAT SAID....
I'm going to suggest that perhaps this isn't the right place for this discussion. Rocky started this thread as a resource for people who are in the current cycle, looking for information about what it's like to be a student at Fordham. There's currently a thread about whether or not Fordham at sticker is worthwhile - could we maybe move the job-related talk over there and leave this thread for Quality of Life/etc questions? Just a thought, just a thought.... (I think it's safe to say that Rocky, HEP, MrFly and I all benefitted a fair amount from a similarly-themed thread last cycle - it's nice to have a thread that's just straightforward information from people on the inside.)

[downing]

Has anyone else noticed that "special snowflake" is a recurring phrase? Members use it a lot on this forum. Certainly, TLS does seem to lack special snowflakes.

Fordham is at the TOP of my list. It's a reach school with my average numbers: GPA 3.24, LSAT 165, non-urm, applying for full time. I want to send them my application as soon as possible; I could even do it tonight.

Fordham does not require two letters of recommendation, and I'll have to wait about 2-3 weeks before my letters of recommendation are registered/received by LSAC. With my stats, would it be unwise to send them my application without those letters? I'm a bit worried about sending out my app late in the cycle.

[nygrrrl]

Has anyone else noticed that "special snowflake" is a recurring phrase? Members use it a lot on this forum. Certainly, TLS does seem to lack special snowflakes.

Fordham is at the TOP of my list. It's a reach school with my average numbers: GPA 3.24, LSAT 165, non-urm, applying for full time. I want to send them my application as soon as possible; I could even do it tonight.

Fordham does not require two letters of recommendation, and I'll have to wait about 2-3 weeks before my letters of recommendation are registered/received by LSAC. With my stats, would it be unwise to send them my application without those letters? I'm a bit worried about sending out my app late in the cycle.

In my personal opinion, the most important thing you can do is get that app IN THERE. They really don't require the letters (they're not just saying that) - I would submit your application ASAP, then send an email to the Admissions Office letting them know that you will be adding LORs shortly. (This also gives you a reason to call the office in 2-3 weeks, to make sure they've received the letters.) Seriously. The faster you get your application in, the better your chances. Best of luck!!!!!!!

[doing_it_in_a_car]

LSP says I'm a strong consider at Fordham, so I think it's worth a tour...thinking of coming up around Thanksgiving. Any suggestions regarding specific things I should check out?

[dood]

...

[chicoalto0649]

Alright, I've been in school about a month now. Ask away! I'll also try to pull together a bunch of older threads with info about Fordham in the near future.

I'm fairly certain some of my colleagues will jump in and answer questions as well (I'm looking at you, HEP and nygrrrl!).

1L over here

1. BROSKI, how are the girls at FORDHAM? Much more than a handful of attractive to very attractive girl. Lotsa spandex/uggs (my fav)
2. How many girls have you personally conquered?
Zero. Trust me, after being in the school day after day hooking up w/my classmates seems like the last thing I want to do. Just imagine waking up in the morning only to find ur lady friend asking you questions about promissory estoppel and parol evidence rule
3. Made out with? (please also list your relevant stats so we can judge accurately)
See above
4. Describe in detail the typical Fordham girl - what race/ethnicity, level of hotness, social economic background, intelligence, etc?
Come visit and find out. Def surprised at the quality of girls. Most of them are quite friendly and down to earth too!
5. And how is Fordham bar review?
Pretty solid. Stuff is starting to slow down socially for us 1ls but there is a pretty strong contingent of early 20 somethings who are down to drink
6. What bars and clubs have you gone to?
Plenty
7. What is your favorite?
8. How is the diversity at Fordham?
I'm a non AA urm. There is only 1 AA in my section. Fordham stretches the term diverse. A lot of indian and asians - handful of AA and very few latinos. I think the people here have quite diverse backgrounds however. Lots of very interesting people here.
9. Do people really have a chip on their back after getting denied at NYU and Columbia? (to my understanding, quite a few people went to Fordham even though they had decent stats, which are presumably only a few points away from admit at NYU or Columbia, simply because they wanted NYC) if people have chips on their soldiers I havent seen any of it yet. NYU and Columbia hardly ever comes up in conversations nor do people mention what other schools they considered after the first few days of orientation

anything else?

[chicoalto0649]

Hey H.E., I just purchased the Emanuel Crunchtime outline for Ks. I got it for the flow charts which are pretty awesome. Maybe you should take a look at it.

Are you suggesting I don't already have a mastery of all things contracts? How dare you.

do they have it in the bookstore???

Unwarranted assumption brah

I don't know if they have it in the bookstore, I bought it off amazon. On amazon, you can browse through the first few pages; check out the flow chart, looks money. http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/073556 ... ss_product

Those flow charts look like absolute garbage for the prof we have.. However, our professor creates wickedly tough tests.

Ever look at Calamari and Perrillos Black letter outline? Book is a god sent

[rockthelaw]

Alright, I've been in school about a month now. Ask away! I'll also try to pull together a bunch of older threads with info about Fordham in the near future.

I'm fairly certain some of my colleagues will jump in and answer questions as well (I'm looking at you, HEP and nygrrrl!).

1. BROSKI, how are the girls at FORDHAM?
There are a lot of pretty girls here. Bottom line, Fordham is an attractive crowd.
2. How many girls have you personally conquered?
I've had a girlfriend for three years, so none. If I say I conquered her, she'd probably murder me in my sleep. In fact, I think I hear something creeping up behind me...oh God! Forgive me! I'm so sor-
3. Made out with? (please also list your relevant stats so we can judge accurately)
I've made out with my Torts book often. Epstein's interpretations of strict liability are pretty hot.
4. Describe in detail the typical Fordham girl - what race/ethnicity, level of hotness, social economic background, intelligence, etc?
White, 6.5-7/10, well-off and happy to spend dad's money, well-spoken and subtly brilliant.
5. And how is Fordham bar review?
it's a bunch of law students awkwardly talking about law school at a bar. I'd say this is standard for law school. In other words, it's just law students trying to one-up each other, except with cheap beer in hand.
6. What bars and clubs have you gone to?
A whole bunch on 9th Ave.
7. What is your favorite?
8. How is the diversity at Fordham?
Eh...I think in my section of 40, there are 4 or 5 kids of color. Split about 50-50 boys/girls
9. Do people really have a chip on their back after getting denied at NYU and Columbia? (to my understanding, quite a few people went to Fordham even though they had decent stats, which are presumably only a few points away from admit at NYU or Columbia, simply because they wanted NYC)
No. I haven't heard a single 1L even mention these schools. The only time I heard people mention NYU or Columbia was when a 2L was talking about some friends that transferred to CLS from Fordham after their 1L year. The 2L said, "Yeah, don't transfer, you're just gonna get the same job you would have gotten anyway, and you'll lose all your friends." She sounded a little bitter about maybe not transferring (or having the grades to transfer), but otherwise I haven't heard anything about NYU/CLS. People are simply too busy with school to worry about the past.

[chicoalto0649]

Alright, I've been in school about a month now. Ask away! I'll also try to pull together a bunch of older threads with info about Fordham in the near future.

I'm fairly certain some of my colleagues will jump in and answer questions as well (I'm looking at you, HEP and nygrrrl!).

1. BROSKI, how are the girls at FORDHAM?
There are a lot of pretty girls here. Bottom line, Fordham is an attractive crowd.
2. How many girls have you personally conquered?
I've had a girlfriend for three years, so none. If I say I conquered her, she'd probably murder me in my sleep. In fact, I think I hear something creeping up behind me...oh God! Forgive me! I'm so sor-
3. Made out with? (please also list your relevant stats so we can judge accurately)
I've made out with my Torts book often. Epstein's interpretations of strict liability are pretty hot.
4. Describe in detail the typical Fordham girl - what race/ethnicity, level of hotness, social economic background, intelligence, etc?
White, 6.5-7/10, well-off and happy to spend dad's money, well-spoken and subtly brilliant.
5. And how is Fordham bar review?
it's a bunch of law students awkwardly talking about law school at a bar. I'd say this is standard for law school. In other words, it's just law students trying to one-up each other, except with cheap beer in hand.
6. What bars and clubs have you gone to?
A whole bunch on 9th Ave.
7. What is your favorite?
8. How is the diversity at Fordham?
Eh...I think in my section of 40, there are 4 or 5 kids of color. Split about 50-50 boys/girls
9. Do people really have a chip on their back after getting denied at NYU and Columbia? (to my understanding, quite a few people went to Fordham even though they had decent stats, which are presumably only a few points away from admit at NYU or Columbia, simply because they wanted NYC)

No. I haven't heard a single 1L even mention these schools. The only time I heard people mention NYU or Columbia was when a 2L was talking about some friends that transferred to CLS from Fordham after their 1L year. The 2L said, "Yeah, don't transfer, you're just gonna get the same job you would have gotten anyway, and you'll lose all your friends." She sounded a little bitter about maybe not transferring (or having the grades to transfer), but otherwise I haven't heard anything about NYU/CLS. People are simply too busy with school to worry about the past.

Transferring makes some sense if you are a 100% prestige whore. Top 1-3% at Fordham should be good as gold. Plus I don't like Columbia's neighborhood as much.

[nygrrrl]

(Selective answering, even though this wasn't addressed to me!)
1. BROSKI, how are the girls at FORDHAM?
freaking awesome
5. And how is Fordham bar review?
Hard to say b/c as an Evening student, we usually get there as it's ending... but we have fun on Thursday nights.
8. How is the diversity at Fordham?
Evening division seems to be much more diverse than Rocky has described, for Day. Lots of colors, creeds, ages etc.
9. Do people really have a chip on their back after getting denied at NYU and Columbia? (to my understanding, quite a few people went to Fordham even though they had decent stats, which are presumably only a few points away from admit at NYU or Columbia, simply because they wanted NYC)
I honestly don't know anyone who's at Fordham b/c they got dinged by one of the other two. (Now watch, a dozen people will jump on to tell me otherwise!) But seriously, no. No bitterness. I have friends at both schools. It's all good.

[OperaSoprano]

2L heading into finals! I am reviving this in case anyone has questions, since I will need a break from time to time. Good luck with your apps!

[IsleMet]

Question...

I applied to the full time program, but I would consider going part time. Does Fordham offer scholarship money to students in the part time program or award need based aid? My goal is to practice public interest law in NYC and the idea of 150k+ debt is frightening and could deter me from the public interest track. I'm thinking I might be better served going to a school like BC where the COL would be less.

Also, is it manageable to work part time while attending law school in the evenings? I am currently teaching (Teach for America) and could probably find a 20/25 hour per week job tutoring or teaching next year.

166, 3.6, 2 years work experience, very good softs, Masters degree here.

Thank you! I truly appreciate the feedback that so many TLS law school students provide

[dood]

...

[nygrrrl]

Question...

I applied to the full time program, but I would consider going part time. Does Fordham offer scholarship money to students in the part time program or award need based aid? My goal is to practice public interest law in NYC and the idea of 150k+ debt is frightening and could deter me from the public interest track. I'm thinking I might be better served going to a school like BC where the COL would be less.

Also, is it manageable to work part time while attending law school in the evenings? I am currently teaching (Teach for America) and could probably find a 20/25 hour per week job tutoring or teaching next year.

166, 3.6, 2 years work experience, very good softs, Masters degree here.

Thank you! I truly appreciate the feedback that so many TLS law school students provide

I'm going to defer to OS on the scholly question (I didn't get one but I believe a couple of my evening division classmates did?) but will address the work issue.
I work about 30 hours/wk as an independent contractor (think arts). Several of my friends (in PT/Evening) work full time, 40 hr/wk jobs. Personally, I couldn't do what they do. I think it's very manageable to work 20-30 hrs/wk if you organize everything and really set aside time for studying. I have no plans to switch to the day program because I'm actually really enjoying having the balance of work and school (and the knowledge that I'm paying for school, while attending!) Let me know if you have other questions - best of luck!

[OperaSoprano]

Question...

I applied to the full time program, but I would consider going part time. Does Fordham offer scholarship money to students in the part time program or award need based aid? My goal is to practice public interest law in NYC and the idea of 150k+ debt is frightening and could deter me from the public interest track. I'm thinking I might be better served going to a school like BC where the COL would be less.

Also, is it manageable to work part time while attending law school in the evenings? I am currently teaching (Teach for America) and could probably find a 20/25 hour per week job tutoring or teaching next year.

166, 3.6, 2 years work experience, very good softs, Masters degree here.

Thank you! I truly appreciate the feedback that so many TLS law school students provide

I'm going to defer to OS on the scholly question (I didn't get one but I believe a couple of my evening division classmates did?) but will address the work issue.
I work about 30 hours/wk as an independent contractor (think arts). Several of my friends (in PT/Evening) work full time, 40 hr/wk jobs. Personally, I couldn't do what they do. I think it's very manageable to work 20-30 hrs/wk if you organize everything and really set aside time for studying. I have no plans to switch to the day program because I'm actually really enjoying having the balance of work and school (and the knowledge that I'm paying for school, while attending!) Let me know if you have other questions - best of luck!

I was an evening student last year and I concur with what Nygrrrl said. As for scholarships, hardly any evening students had them my year, and they were no more than a token amount, but Fordham has more money to hand out now. I still would not count on a ton of scholly money. Working part time is TCR. (I did something very similar last year. Good luck!

[OperaSoprano]

2L heading into finals! I am reviving this in case anyone has questions, since I will need a break from time to time. Good luck with your apps!

wat do u look like?
wat number would u be rated as by doods?
wat would ur friends describe as ur 3 best characteristics?
wat's ur sign?

Aren't you a bit past the application stage?

As for me, I am not on the market just now. With apologies.

[Perch]

Hello all, wondering how it worked out from those who actually got in. I submitted and have been complete since mid-November and did not submit an optional "Why Fordham" or anything. I am from just outside NYC, figured they'd realize this and understand why I want to go to Fordham- no need for a few sentences in a PS.

My concern stems from the fact that my numbers are right on the medians/slightly ahead (166, 3.8x) and I listed a bunch of more highly ranked schools in the "Which other schools will you be applying to" question.

So, does it make sense to add a "Why Fordham" statement now while my app is still complete but not UR? I love Fordham and it is one of my top 2 choices (assuming I don't get the long shot) and I certainly do not want to screw this up.

Thanks.

[neptunestar]

For those of you who are PT and have a job also - what kind of job do you have, it is legal related?

Also, did you have the job before you started Fordham PT or did they begin at the same time?

I'm an international applicant who has roots in NYC so I would be "coming home" so to speak, but I'm worried it will be hard to find a job when I tell them that I'll be a PT law student, they'll think I won't be as much of a resource? Thoughts?

[nygrrrl]

For those of you who are PT and have a job also - what kind of job do you have, it is legal related?

Also, did you have the job before you started Fordham PT or did they begin at the same time?

I'm an international applicant who has roots in NYC so I would be "coming home" so to speak, but I'm worried it will be hard to find a job when I tell them that I'll be a PT law student, they'll think I won't be as much of a resource? Thoughts?

Hai, Neptune!
I'll start on this one, though my experience is a bit outside the norm. I had a full-time career before starting school (still do, actually - as do many of my PT classmates). I am a freelance voice over performer, working in TV/radio/film. I set my own hours to some extent, working 30-40 hrs/wk, many of them from a home studio. I have been very careful to keep my law school involvement quiet, as many clients/co-workers were quick to assume that going to law school meant I would no longer be available to work. Not exactly sure how other employers view it - hope others will weigh in (and I'll ask some of my non-TLS, working classmates!)

[H. E. Pennypacker]

For those of you who are PT and have a job also - what kind of job do you have, it is legal related?

Also, did you have the job before you started Fordham PT or did they begin at the same time?

I'm an international applicant who has roots in NYC so I would be "coming home" so to speak, but I'm worried it will be hard to find a job when I tell them that I'll be a PT law student, they'll think I won't be as much of a resource? Thoughts?

I work as a paralegal, 20-25 hrs a week, which for me is a perfect balance. I got my job about 2 weeks after school started, and I know of others who have done the same. It varies though, because some places want their support staff to be available 24/7 for things which just isn't going to work with your law school commitment, but again it varies from firm to firm and based on the nature of what it is you're doing.

[nygrrrl]

I work as a paralegal, 20-25 hrs a week, which for me is a perfect balance. I got my job about 2 weeks after school started, and I know of others who have done the same. It varies though, because some places want their support staff to be available 24/7 for things which just isn't going to work with your law school commitment, but again it varies from firm to firm and based on the nature of what it is you're doing.

Exactly the person I was hoping would weigh in...

[H. E. Pennypacker]

Hello all, wondering how it worked out from those who actually got in. I submitted and have been complete since mid-November and did not submit an optional "Why Fordham" or anything. I am from just outside NYC, figured they'd realize this and understand why I want to go to Fordham- no need for a few sentences in a PS.

My concern stems from the fact that my numbers are right on the medians/slightly ahead (166, 3.8x) and I listed a bunch of more highly ranked schools in the "Which other schools will you be applying to" question.

So, does it make sense to add a "Why Fordham" statement now while my app is still complete but not UR? I love Fordham and it is one of my top 2 choices (assuming I don't get the long shot) and I certainly do not want to screw this up.

Thanks.

I remember there being a debate about this last year and I don't remember what the verdict was, but Fordham probably has a pretty good idea where else you'll be competitive with those numbers and can check that against the list of other schools you applied to. If you want to assure them that Fordham is the place for you, I would set up an appointment with admissions, go down and ask some questions, take a tour, and reiterate to them why Fordham is where you want to be.

I think with your numbers though it won't be an issue. What i mean by that is if you had a 175/ 4.0 and listed Harvard, Yale, Columbia, etc that might send up a few red flags. But you're right in the target area so I doubt they think they will have to YP you because you're likely to go elsewhere.

[neptunestar]

Do people talk about the fact that they cut the incoming class in half for PT? Or is that only those of us on the outside worry about lol

[crossingforHYS]

hello! I got in to fordham, and was wondering how are clerkship prospects?