UDC CHEATING Forum

[rockstar4488]

Hah, I've never gotten one.

[KibblesAndVick]

Why didn't she just force the grades into a more normal distribution? Obviously she would have had to arbitrarily distinguish between some more or less equal exams but isn't that better than basing grades on class participation and other such bullshit? She's an idiot for giving 70% of her class an A or better. How in the world was it not immediately clear to her that something was amiss? Maybe it was a multiple choice exam?

bc she's the type of troglodyte that photocopies a GD barbri exam to use as her be-all end-all final for 1Ls?

I know. I know. But still. How in the fucking world could you not see the shit storm a-brewin'

[rockstar4488]

So the sticking point of the issue seems to be whether or not re-weighting the grade constitutes a sanction against the students.

My guess is that the grades are going to stand. I am betting that at least some of the students ended up with a higher grade, killing the idea that this was a uniform punishment.

[let/them/eat/cake]

So the sticking point of the issue seems to be whether or not re-weighting the grade constitutes a sanction against the students.

My guess is that the grades are going to stand. I am betting that at least some of the students ended up with a higher grade, killing the idea that this was a uniform punishment.

W/o, obviously, knowing the details of the sitch, the problem seems to be one of notice: they are now being graded on (a) class participation--which is just patently ridiculous, as anyone who has been through a year of LS knows; (b) some midterm--that apparently she said originally "wouldn't hurt anyone", which makes it sounds like it was more of a "for the students' benefit" type of thing, take it as seriously as you'd like; and (c) some joint/group writing exercise, which, also, sounds like a preposterous basis for a 1L grade. 1L grades are, after all, just a teensy bit important. All this when they thought they were being graded solely on the final.

It's less a "sanction" of anyone in particular than it is a "clusterfuck of epic propoertions."

[romothesavior]

I guess this pokes a hole in the TTTT argument that "We offer an education on par with the T1s! Look at our faculty pedigrees... they are amazing!"

[somewhatwayward]

were the responses to the questions very similar across the students?

[TommyK]

were the responses to the questions very similar across the students?

From what the professor said, it seems to have been a prep for the multiple-choice section of a bar. So yeah - I think the responses were pretty similar across students.

Student 1 chose A; Student 2 chose A.

[LauraCB]

This is what I don't get:

However, Professor Robin Alexander of UDC Law School administered an exam to her first year students that was entirely photocopied from a professional study guide that students had utilized to study for the course.

As a result, the Professor nullified the final exam grades leaving students with a tailored subjective final grade consisting of participation and a random group assignment created previously as a drafting practice activity. The grade distribution consisted of most students receiving Cs and Ds in the course and the third year law students that took her course, now face the threat of having their degrees taken away.

This just happened this past semester, right? Regardless of what actually happened here, I'm pretty sure no 3Ls at UDC took a first year Contracts course and are now in danger of losing their degrees.

W/r/t a professor copying a multiple choice exam directly from a study aid - this also recently happened at NYU (and also in Contracts):

http://abovethelaw.com/2009/12/visiting ... acts-exam/

[Fark-o-vision]

UDC students have jobs, internships and other such things? I didn't think even ND students were getting those fringe benefits from law school these days.

[scrowell]

A number of persons have complained that they learned after-the-fact that, thanks to the TA’s generously detailed description of the topics of each exam question, someone was able to identify the questions I had drawn unadvisedly from a single published bar prep resource and actually put the questions in order with their answers. Either method of access and preparation for the exam is cheating, not research, and is a violation of the Honor Code to which each of you was required to sign an oath of adherence during your orientation.

How is this cheating?

And why give everyone bad grades after the fact? Just to be a meanie?

[TommyK]

A number of persons have complained that they learned after-the-fact that, thanks to the TA’s generously detailed description of the topics of each exam question, someone was able to identify the questions I had drawn unadvisedly from a single published bar prep resource and actually put the questions in order with their answers. Either method of access and preparation for the exam is cheating, not research, and is a violation of the Honor Code to which each of you was required to sign an oath of adherence during your orientation.

How is this cheating?

And why give everyone bad grades after the fact? Just to be a meanie?

Don't feed the troll

[Black-Blue]

a professional study guide that students had utilized to study for the course.

What study guide is so popular that is closely studied by 70% of students? Even for the most popular guide, the E&E, I'd bet that only 20% really studied all the example problems.

[luckycurl84]

This happens all the time.

In one of my UG classes, which was curved, the professor gave out a practice exam - summer section's mid-term. I (and others) worked through the entire test.

Our actual mid-term was identical to the practice exam. Those who had worked all of the practice test were golden. Those who didn't got screwed since the summer section mid-term was longer than ours was supposed to be.

After the exam, our professor realized his mistake after several students, including myself, informed him. He kept the grades as-is. Why? 1. The exam still fit his bell-curve. 2. It rewarded students who attended class to recieve the practice exam and work through it.

Was it cheating? I look at it as an honest mistake and I just got lucky. I'd rather take another test then have the grade invalidated and rely solely on shaky grading criteria.
But the point is: Not everyone gets to be happy in this case, because it's at the end of a term and retakes are out of the question.

[Danteshek]

WILL SOMEONE PLEASE SEND THIS TO ABOVE THE LAW?

[3ThrowAway99]

Hmmm. That does seem very unprofessional/ unscholarly that the prof cut and paste questions into the exam (regardless of whether or not fair use covers this), BUT I do question whether at least some of the students may have gotten unauthorized access to the test or detailed information about the content and spread it around prior to the test (It's just too hard to tell one way or the other being that it is one person's word against another on an anonymous forum).

It seems to me that if there wasn't something awfully unusual that occurred with the results of this particular test (and I would suspect she used a similar "canned" strategy for creating exams in the past but obviously believed the result this time was different enough to suspect there was cheating) she wouldn't have raised the issue with the administration, especially where scrutiny of her poorly crafted "canned" exam could be anticipated.

It sounds like the actual occurrences mentioned here will be examined "IRL" and hopefully the truth will come out (viz. it is just the professor being unprofessional and perhaps out of touch with reality, or in fact there was some student dishonesty and foreknowledge involved in that at least some students knew exactly what content would be on the test beforehand in such a way where they could gain unfair advantage).

[Black-Blue]

It sounds to me that the prof has done this more than once, and although some realized it at first, eventually the word got out to everybody that the exam was copy and paste from commercial sources. Otherwise, I don't see how 70% of the students would do well unless they knew which specific source to study.

[romothesavior]

Don’t let it taint your class or tarnish the reputation of your school.

Again, just to reiterate, I don't think anyone has to worry about this.

[mpasi]

Would she have violated copyright law by using the exam guide as her exam? I know there are exceptions for using copyrighted material for handouts in classroom settings, but this seems a little out of the realm.

Couldn't she be covered by Fair Use exemptions? And, I agree with the poster who mentioned sending it to ATL...this needs to get out.

[Geist13]

Here's a question:

If you were the type of asshat that would cheat on and exam,

and if you were able to gain information about the exam prior to sitting for the exam,

and you knew, like everyone does, that your grade is on a curve

would you proceed to give the information you obtained to 70% of the class?

isn't the point of cheating to do better than you would have otherwise?

[A'nold]

So the sticking point of the issue seems to be whether or not re-weighting the grade constitutes a sanction against the students.

My guess is that the grades are going to stand. I am betting that at least some of the students ended up with a higher grade, killing the idea that this was a uniform punishment.

W/o, obviously, knowing the details of the sitch, the problem seems to be one of notice: they are now being graded on (a) class participation--which is just patently ridiculous, as anyone who has been through a year of LS knows; (b) some midterm--that apparently she said originally "wouldn't hurt anyone", which makes it sounds like it was more of a "for the students' benefit" type of thing, take it as seriously as you'd like; and (c) some joint/group writing exercise, which, also, sounds like a preposterous basis for a 1L grade. 1L grades are, after all, just a teensy bit important. All this when they thought they were being graded solely on the final.

It's less a "sanction" of anyone in particular than it is a "clusterfuck of epic propoertions."

Couldn't have said it better myself. Reminds me of my torts professor that laughs when he talks about how much students hate him and curvs to a 2.4, failing lower performers when every other professor doesn't fail any students that show up, knowing that our entire careers basically hinge on 1L grades and that the other section's tort professor curves to a 3.0..........yeah, I went there.

[romothesavior]

Couldn't have said it better myself. Reminds me of my torts professor that laughs when he talks about how much students hate him and curvs to a 2.4, failing lower performers when every other professor doesn't fail any students that show up, knowing that our entire careers basically hinge on 1L grades and that the other section's tort professor curves to a 3.0..........yeah, I went there.

Can I just ask, how is this allowed? Don't schools usually have a standard grade they curve to in order to combat against potential section discrepancies?

[seespotrun]

Here's a question:

If you were the type of asshat that would cheat on and exam,

and if you were able to gain information about the exam prior to sitting for the exam,

and you knew, like everyone does, that your grade is on a curve

would you proceed to give the information you obtained to 70% of the class?

isn't the point of cheating to do better than you would have otherwise?

well,

no.

but i would,

certainly,

write my exam in this style.

[zanda]

Here's a question:

If you were the type of asshat that would cheat on and exam,

and if you were able to gain information about the exam prior to sitting for the exam,

and you knew, like everyone does, that your grade is on a curve

would you proceed to give the information you obtained to 70% of the class?

isn't the point of cheating to do better than you would have otherwise?

well,

no.

but i would,

certainly,

write my exam in this style.

1 point.

[romothesavior]

That post was like Aberzombie Jr. there.

[somewhatwayward]

This happens all the time.

In one of my UG classes, which was curved, the professor gave out a practice exam - summer section's mid-term. I (and others) worked through the entire test.

Our actual mid-term was identical to the practice exam. Those who had worked all of the practice test were golden. Those who didn't got screwed since the summer section mid-term was longer than ours was supposed to be.

After the exam, our professor realized his mistake after several students, including myself, informed him. He kept the grades as-is. Why? 1. The exam still fit his bell-curve. 2. It rewarded students who attended class to recieve the practice exam and work through it.

Was it cheating? I look at it as an honest mistake and I just got lucky. I'd rather take another test then have the grade invalidated and rely solely on shaky grading criteria.
But the point is: Not everyone gets to be happy in this case, because it's at the end of a term and retakes are out of the question.

it's different, though, when it's an exam distributed by the professor in the course than when it's an obscure bar prep exam - i mean, why would 70% of the students look at the same random bar prep exam?