2L Charlotte law taking questions Forum

[romothesavior]

From what the admissions dept. sent us in an e-mail- since last years bar takers 11 months ago- 84%.

84% of your recent grads have jobs? LEGAL jobs? Umm... no.

[dukelawguy144]

From what the admissions dept. sent us in an e-mail- since last years bar takers 11 months ago- 84%.

84% of your recent grads have jobs? LEGAL jobs? Umm... no.

+!

[Pearalegal]

From what the admissions dept. sent us in an e-mail- since last years bar takers 11 months ago- 84%.

Did the email specify that these jobs were in the legal industry, types of work or sectors?

[Ty Webb]

CLOSE DIS THREAT!

[Grizz]

From what the admissions dept. sent us in an e-mail- since last years bar takers 11 months ago- 84%.

I wonder if the jobs are in the legal industry or not. And the % of bar takers.

[Aberzombie1892]

Rad Law does have a point...

On another note, Rad Law has been my one of my TLS heroes since that I read that thread about Akron law.

[20160810]

UPDATE: OP has PMed me and explained the IP match between himself and other TLS accounts. I am willing to say that this thread probably isn't shenanigans.

That said, OP, don't get touchy when people ask questions such as "How many people get jobs?" These are really basic and legitimate questions, the type you should be expecting to answer when you open a thread like this.

[Nicholasnickynic]

theres already a t-14 and two t1 in NC. Throw in a bunch of t3s. I hate schools like this. Its the reason lawyers can't get jobs. Theres no need for more law schools in NC, especially with the collapse of the charlotte market.

But then you get retarded schools like this and elon. Go pick another profession. Or stop sucking at the lsat.

This is what happens. 90% of people at charlotte don't get real jobs. Corporate a holes get rich, and the 10% of charlotte people that do get jobs take them from people that actually deserve them.

[20160810]

http://abovethelaw.com/2010/07/student- ... roceeding/

[VandyTakingQuestions]

http://abovethelaw.com/2010/07/student- ... roceeding/

I ran here to post this. What is the OPs take on it?

[Unitas]

http://abovethelaw.com/2010/07/student- ... roceeding/

Interesting.... If a school knew or had reason to know you wouldn't pass the bar they should tell you... Isn't that why we have to disclose all this in the first place?

If they chose not to tell you, I could see undue hardship in bankruptcy court. I could even see repayment of time invested and damages being paid by the school in a lawsuit.

[jjman]

Charlotte law:
last class achieved 95% hire in jobs requiring or recommending JD degree. July '10 bar passage rates 3rd highest in State. Beat out Wake, Campbell, Elon, and NC Central.

[elonlawgrad]

theres already a t-14 and two t1 in NC. Throw in a bunch of t3s. I hate schools like this. Its the reason lawyers can't get jobs. Theres no need for more law schools in NC, especially with the collapse of the charlotte market.

But then you get retarded schools like this and elon. Go pick another profession. Or stop sucking at the lsat.

This is what happens. 90% of people at charlotte don't get real jobs. Corporate a holes get rich, and the 10% of charlotte people that do get jobs take them from people that actually deserve them.

Someone who graduates from <insert "retarded" school> and someone who graduates from <insert non-"retarded" school> who both pass the Bar are both LAWYERS! Get off your high horse! Your argument makes no logical sense. "It's the reason lawyers can't get jobs." What lawyers can't get jobs? I graduated from Elon as part of the inaugural class and secured a job outside of NC as a LAWYER at a midsize firm. If you’re concerned with there being more lawyers, but say these schools are inadequate, then we (an Elon/Charlotte grad and a grad from another NC school) shouldn’t be competing for the same jobs, much less actually getting those jobs.

"This is what happens. 90% of people at charlotte don't get real jobs. Corporate a holes get rich, and the 10% of charlotte people that do get jobs take them from people that actually deserve them."

What makes you more entitled to a job than someone who graduated from Elon or Charlotte? I went to Elon because, no, I couldn’t get in to UNC or Duke, but I worked hard in college and had a great GPA, knew I wanted to be a lawyer and I was going to do whatever it took to become one. Just because someone doesn’t score a 165+ on the LSAT doesn’t mean they are incapable of logical reasoning or that they will not make meaningful contributions to the legal profession. Employers choose who they want to hire. Why do you feel so threatened by competition?

[Nicholasnickynic]

theres already a t-14 and two t1 in NC. Throw in a bunch of t3s. I hate schools like this. Its the reason lawyers can't get jobs. Theres no need for more law schools in NC, especially with the collapse of the charlotte market.

But then you get retarded schools like this and elon. Go pick another profession. Or stop sucking at the lsat.

This is what happens. 90% of people at charlotte don't get real jobs. Corporate a holes get rich, and the 10% of charlotte people that do get jobs take them from people that actually deserve them.

Someone who graduates from <insert "retarded" school> and someone who graduates from <insert non-"retarded" school> who both pass the Bar are both LAWYERS! Get off your high horse! Your argument makes no logical sense. "It's the reason lawyers can't get jobs." What lawyers can't get jobs? I graduated from Elon as part of the inaugural class and secured a job outside of NC as a LAWYER at a midsize firm. If you’re concerned with there being more lawyers, but say these schools are inadequate, then we (an Elon/Charlotte grad and a grad from another NC school) shouldn’t be competing for the same jobs, much less actually getting those jobs.

"This is what happens. 90% of people at charlotte don't get real jobs. Corporate a holes get rich, and the 10% of charlotte people that do get jobs take them from people that actually deserve them."

What makes you more entitled to a job than someone who graduated from Elon or Charlotte? I went to Elon because, no, I couldn’t get in to UNC or Duke, but I worked hard in college and had a great GPA, knew I wanted to be a lawyer and I was going to do whatever it took to become one. Just because someone doesn’t score a 165+ on the LSAT doesn’t mean they are incapable of logical reasoning or that they will not make meaningful contributions to the legal profession. Employers choose who they want to hire. Why do you feel so threatened by competition?

i agree. Just because you can't do well enough on the LSAT does NOT mean you could not be a great lawyer. However, there are TOO MANY lawyers - someone can double check this, but I believe the common stat is 30k new law jobs last year and 45k new lawyers?

Therefore, there should be some kind of cutoff for lawschool, so every one who gets a degree can get a job. Hmm, what kind of cut off coudl we use. Something thats the same for everyone.

Different schools and gpas are hard to compare.

Hmmm if only we could think of some kind of standardized measure or test to arbitrarily cut people out. Then there wouldn't be a glut in the market.

Suggestions?

[Grizz]

i agree. Just because you can't do well enough on the LSAT does NOT mean you could not be a great lawyer. However, there are TOO MANY lawyers - someone can double check this, but I believe the common stat is 30k new law jobs last year and 45k new lawyers?

Therefore, there should be some kind of cutoff for lawschool, so every one who gets a degree can get a job. Hmm, what kind of cut off coudl we use. Something thats the same for everyone.

Different schools and gpas are hard to compare.

Hmmm if only we could think of some kind of standardized measure or test to arbitrarily cut people out. Then there wouldn't be a glut in the market.

Suggestions?

Forcing schools to accurately report job statistics and ending guaranteed govt. non-dischargeable loans to everyone with a pulse. The free market will take care of it. No need for protectionism.

[elonlawgrad]

theres already a t-14 and two t1 in NC. Throw in a bunch of t3s. I hate schools like this. Its the reason lawyers can't get jobs. Theres no need for more law schools in NC, especially with the collapse of the charlotte market.

But then you get retarded schools like this and elon. Go pick another profession. Or stop sucking at the lsat.

This is what happens. 90% of people at charlotte don't get real jobs. Corporate a holes get rich, and the 10% of charlotte people that do get jobs take them from people that actually deserve them.

Someone who graduates from <insert "retarded" school> and someone who graduates from <insert non-"retarded" school> who both pass the Bar are both LAWYERS! Get off your high horse! Your argument makes no logical sense. "It's the reason lawyers can't get jobs." What lawyers can't get jobs? I graduated from Elon as part of the inaugural class and secured a job outside of NC as a LAWYER at a midsize firm. If you’re concerned with there being more lawyers, but say these schools are inadequate, then we (an Elon/Charlotte grad and a grad from another NC school) shouldn’t be competing for the same jobs, much less actually getting those jobs.

"This is what happens. 90% of people at charlotte don't get real jobs. Corporate a holes get rich, and the 10% of charlotte people that do get jobs take them from people that actually deserve them."

What makes you more entitled to a job than someone who graduated from Elon or Charlotte? I went to Elon because, no, I couldn’t get in to UNC or Duke, but I worked hard in college and had a great GPA, knew I wanted to be a lawyer and I was going to do whatever it took to become one. Just because someone doesn’t score a 165+ on the LSAT doesn’t mean they are incapable of logical reasoning or that they will not make meaningful contributions to the legal profession. Employers choose who they want to hire. Why do you feel so threatened by competition?

i agree. Just because you can't do well enough on the LSAT does NOT mean you could not be a great lawyer. However, there are TOO MANY lawyers - someone can double check this, but I believe the common stat is 30k new law jobs last year and 45k new lawyers?

Therefore, there should be some kind of cutoff for lawschool, so every one who gets a degree can get a job. Hmm, what kind of cut off coudl we use. Something thats the same for everyone.

Different schools and gpas are hard to compare.

Hmmm if only we could think of some kind of standardized measure or test to arbitrarily cut people out. Then there wouldn't be a glut in the market.

Suggestions?

Thank you for the sarcasm. It seems to me there are three tests to weed people out…the LSAT, law school, and the Bar.

I understand what you’re saying, but I think you’re overly critical when you suggest that people “stop sucking at the LSAT.” It’s not like a 158 (which is what I scored) on the LSAT is terrible; but it’s not always enough to get you into a top tier school. I do think some law schools admit students whose LSAT scores are quite low, but I do not think it means schools like Elon and Charlotte should be eliminated altogether. I do understand though, that NC probably had its fair share of law schools before the opening of Elon and Charlotte law schools.

I would say the Bar exam is pretty standardized within each state. Graduates from UNC, Duke, Wake, etc. take the same Bar as graduates from Elon and Charlotte; and every year there are UNC, Duke, Wake grads who fail it and Elon and Charlotte grads who pass it. So, wouldn’t you think the Bar is one of these weeding out mechanisms? Maybe you should suggest that people only get one shot to pass the Bar. That might weed some people out.

[Grizz]

Someone who graduates from <insert "retarded" school> and someone who graduates from <insert non-"retarded" school> who both pass the Bar are both LAWYERS! Get off your high horse! Your argument makes no logical sense. "It's the reason lawyers can't get jobs." What lawyers can't get jobs? I graduated from Elon as part of the inaugural class and secured a job outside of NC as a LAWYER at a midsize firm. If you’re concerned with there being more lawyers, but say these schools are inadequate, then we (an Elon/Charlotte grad and a grad from another NC school) shouldn’t be competing for the same jobs, much less actually getting those jobs.

"This is what happens. 90% of people at charlotte don't get real jobs. Corporate a holes get rich, and the 10% of charlotte people that do get jobs take them from people that actually deserve them."

What makes you more entitled to a job than someone who graduated from Elon or Charlotte? I went to Elon because, no, I couldn’t get in to UNC or Duke, but I worked hard in college and had a great GPA, knew I wanted to be a lawyer and I was going to do whatever it took to become one. Just because someone doesn’t score a 165+ on the LSAT doesn’t mean they are incapable of logical reasoning or that they will not make meaningful contributions to the legal profession. Employers choose who they want to hire. Why do you feel so threatened by competition?

If one can't find a legal job post-graduation, probably the situation many of your classmates are in, and will probably never get one, is one still really a lawyer? I'm not threatened by the competition, I just feel that for many TTT grads, law school ends up being a taxpayer-sponsored swindle.

[Grizz]

I would say the Bar exam is pretty standardized within each state. Graduates from UNC, Duke, Wake, etc. take the same Bar as graduates from Elon and Charlotte; and every year there are UNC, Duke, Wake grads who fail it and Elon and Charlotte grads who pass it. So, wouldn’t you think the Bar is one of these weeding out mechanisms? Maybe you should suggest that people only get one shot to pass the Bar. That might weed some people out.

Bar exam is not a good weed-out. Law school doesn't teach you how to pass the bar. But I guarantee if Elon had to report accurate job statistics and the govt. stopped guaranteeing loans for everyone, the school would probably close.

[romothesavior]

Passing the bar does not make you a lawyer. It makes you qualified to be a lawyer. Lawyers practice law. There are a LOT of lower tier graduates not practicing law. That's the problem.

[Nicholasnickynic]

EXCELLENT IDEA!

Instead of using a standardized test that costs a few hundred dollars to weed people out, USE LAW SCHOOL to weed people out!

Make people spend 100,000 or more and 3 years of their life before you weed them out!!

Instead of weeding people out with the lsat, where the lost time and money would be minimal, weed them out with law school, where the lost time and money will be gigantic (and both cases, irreversible).

YES! You are right!

I take back my earlier position


Yes awesome, that works well for everyone!

[romothesavior]

EXCELLENT IDEA!

Instead of using a standardized test that costs a few hundred dollars to weed people out, USE LAW SCHOOL to weed people out!

Make people spend 100,000 or more and 3 years of their life before you weed them out!!

+1, great point. And seriously, the idea of lawl school weeding people out is lulzy. Seriously, anyone with a pulse can get a law degree.

[Nicholasnickynic]

i agree. Just because you can't do well enough on the LSAT does NOT mean you could not be a great lawyer. However, there are TOO MANY lawyers - someone can double check this, but I believe the common stat is 30k new law jobs last year and 45k new lawyers?

Therefore, there should be some kind of cutoff for lawschool, so every one who gets a degree can get a job. Hmm, what kind of cut off coudl we use. Something thats the same for everyone.

Different schools and gpas are hard to compare.

Hmmm if only we could think of some kind of standardized measure or test to arbitrarily cut people out. Then there wouldn't be a glut in the market.

Suggestions?

Forcing schools to accurately report job statistics and ending guaranteed govt. non-dischargeable loans to everyone with a pulse. The free market will take care of it. No need for protectionism.

Damn you! Thats now how you are supposed to answer my leading question.

[r6_philly]

If one can't find a legal job post-graduation, probably the situation many of your classmates are in, and will probably never get one, is one still really a lawyer? I'm not threatened by the competition, I just feel that for many TTT grads, law school ends up being a taxpayer-sponsored swindle.

I am not really sure taxpayers/government don't come out on top of this regardless of what happens to most TTT grads. I view student loans as an entitlement/transfer/subsidize program anyway. TTT grads may waste the student loan money up front by going to school and not secure a job, but maybe they would be charges longer and require more maintenance transfer payments (and lack of taxpaying) for longer. I don't think we can conclusively call the impact of spending fed guaranteed loan money without a comprehensive impact study. I still hope that these fed programs, even if they go to TTT, are making positive impacts as a whole.

[romothesavior]

If one can't find a legal job post-graduation, probably the situation many of your classmates are in, and will probably never get one, is one still really a lawyer? I'm not threatened by the competition, I just feel that for many TTT grads, law school ends up being a taxpayer-sponsored swindle.

I am not really sure taxpayers/government don't come out on top of this regardless of what happens to most TTT grads. I view student loans as an entitlement/transfer/subsidize program anyway. TTT grads may waste the student loan money up front by going to school and not secure a job, but maybe they would be charges longer and require more maintenance transfer payments (and lack of taxpaying) for longer. I don't think we can conclusively call the impact of spending fed guaranteed loan money without a comprehensive impact study. I still hope that these fed programs, even if they go to TTT, are making positive impacts as a whole.

I am obviously no expert and I haven't seen any sort of study, but I can't imagine that having an entire generation of Americans saddled with enormous educational debt could possibly be a good thing. Even if the government is getting the money back in the long run, I would imagine it will likely be devastating on the long-term economy. Graduates (and not just law grads) are struggling to find jobs, and their debts will will suck away a lot of their expendable income and make it difficult to buy a home, a car, etc.

Just my $.02 though, I'd be interested in seeing something on the long-term impact of it.

[elonlawgrad]

I'm not saying that any one of the three (the LSAT, law school, the Bar) alone is a good weed out point. I don't have all the answers. What I am doing is defending the fact that I am an intelligent person, I got a 158 on the LSAT, I graduated from law school, I passed the Bar and I got a job AS A LAWYER! The fact that I didn't go to a top tier law school does not diminish the fact that I am a lawyer and does not mean you are more qualified for a particular job than I am. There are other factors that go into someone's ability to perform as an attorney beyond those that can be quantified through testing, one being the ability to respond to an argument without resorting to sarcasm and belittlement.

I am not discounting the fact that there are lawyers who don't have jobs, but other factors weigh in besides the number of attorneys, i.e. the economy. (btw, 90% of graduates from my class have law jobs) If you can't find a job, create one. Don't sit here and generalize about and criticize the intelligence of people who graduate from TTT schools.

I have a question for those of you who responded to my earlier post...where did you go to law school, when did you graduate and what type of work are you doing? (just curious)