The BigLaw hate buffet Forum

[IAFG]

no one gives a fuck what i am doing unless they want me to be doing something in particular. they don't even care a little bit.

Well shit. Do you try to have 1-2 personal projects that you can pull out in your downtime? Like researching cases? Reading a book? Painting a sea-scape?

Yeah, I mean, I don't only TLS all day when it's slow. I have been sorta working on a side project/academic question, sometimes i peruse publications/blogs relevant to my practice, etc.

[HRomanus]

no one gives a fuck what i am doing unless they want me to be doing something in particular. they don't even care a little bit.

Well shit. Do you try to have 1-2 personal projects that you can pull out in your downtime? Like researching cases? Reading a book? Painting a sea-scape?

Yeah, I mean, I don't only TLS all day when it's slow. I have been sorta working on a side project/academic question, sometimes i peruse publications/blogs relevant to my practice, etc.

What do the most gunner associates do?

[IAFG]

no one gives a fuck what i am doing unless they want me to be doing something in particular. they don't even care a little bit.

Well shit. Do you try to have 1-2 personal projects that you can pull out in your downtime? Like researching cases? Reading a book? Painting a sea-scape?

Yeah, I mean, I don't only TLS all day when it's slow. I have been sorta working on a side project/academic question, sometimes i peruse publications/blogs relevant to my practice, etc.

What do the most gunner associates do?

This question misunderstands the situation. IMO, at this point in our tenure (I've been here 8 months) there is no such thing as a gunnerier first year. The most gunner summer is on the brink of burnout and everyone else just seems to be treading water.

[84651846190]

You're confused about what it means to "bill a low amount of hours and get away with it." If you get lucky and are on a string of cases that leave you at 1,800 for a few years, you won't get canned. But when you're staffed on a case, you have to do the work that you're assigned. If the partner says "I need this by Monday" you can't just say "no." Because then you *will* get canned. Plus, until you do, everyone will hate you. Because if a case will require 800 hours that month from a team of 3 associates, and you shrug off work, that means more work for them. Because somebody has to do it. If nobody does it, the client fires the firm (it happens), and then people do lose their jobs. People don't ordinarily get fired over it because it's obvious to everybody what would happen.

Exactly.

You can't just get up from the table once you meet your hours requirement and say, "Okay, thanks. No more work please. I'm good." The partner would look at you like you'd just raped a cat in his living room. You do the fucking work until it's done. Period. Sometimes it takes 1800 hours. Sometimes it takes 2600. If you straight up stop working on a matter because you're tired or you made your hours or for any other reason (other than firm-approved reasons like paternity/maternity leave, sick leave, etc.), you will not get any more work. Ever. And, eventually, you'll be shitcanned.

[iliketurtles123]

This has already been discussed in other threads but looking for new opinions since this thread is pretty helpful.

How's social life/dating with biglaw hours? Do you find yourself canceling plans with friends very often? Is it even possible to date someone seriously?

[jingosaur]

So I understand that you can't give up on a deal or a case midway through even if you hit your hours, but if you have nothing on the docket and you're at your yearly hours target, can you just kind of coast for the rest of the year and not take anything on?

[thesealocust]

To add to the chorus: "hours" are just a way to quantify misery after the fact. Biglaw is actually about answering legal questions for clients, doing deals, and managing litigation - and those all come in bleeding chunks, usually with unreasonable and/or imagined deadlines. You really have shockingly little say in how much time you put in, especially when you are new, dumb and fungible.

Also, there's something to be said for the whole pie eating contest thing (and the corollary: strategic incompetence). I've seen new people get shunned because having them on a team was worse than not having them on the team, and I've seen partners wage open war for every fraction of a good juniors' time.

So I understand that you can't give up on a deal or a case midway through even if you hit your hours, but if you have nothing on the docket and you're at your yearly hours target, can you just kind of coast for the rest of the year and not take anything on?

No. Jesus. The client will call with a problem, the partner will check people's hours, and you'll be back under the bus begging for mercy.

[spleenworship]

Reading all these threads y'all have put up (all 175 - 180 threads BTW) has made me do two things:

1). Laugh. These are amazing (and some of the preftigous behavior is not limited to biglaw, BTW, so I had some flashbacks)

2). Thank God I'm going to be working for the government. While my workload an whatnot will largely be out of my hands, barring trial prep I won't have to go over 50 hours a week and should be able to sleep and see my fam occasionally. Of course, I will be paid 1/5 what y'all make... So...

[rayiner]

This has already been discussed in other threads but looking for new opinions since this thread is pretty helpful.

How's social life/dating with biglaw hours? Do you find yourself canceling plans with friends very often? Is it even possible to date someone seriously?

I managed to keep plans with friends, but they are mostly lawyers and understood when I had to change things around. The biggest complaint I've heard was with dating. It's one thing to have a steady SO or spouse where you can make up for canceling by taking a spontaneous day off and doing something fun (which you can, at least in litigation). Very different to be in the early stages of dating, where you cancel and the other person might not reschedule.

[rayiner]

To add to the chorus: "hours" are just a way to quantify misery after the fact. Biglaw is actually about answering legal questions for clients, doing deals, and managing litigation - and those all come in bleeding chunks, usually with unreasonable and/or imagined deadlines. You really have shockingly little say in how much time you put in, especially when you are new, dumb and fungible.

Also, there's something to be said for the whole pie eating contest thing (and the corollary: strategic incompetence). I've seen new people get shunned because having them on a team was worse than not having them on the team, and I've seen partners wage open war for every fraction of a good juniors' time.

So I understand that you can't give up on a deal or a case midway through even if you hit your hours, but if you have nothing on the docket and you're at your yearly hours target, can you just kind of coast for the rest of the year and not take anything on?

No. Jesus. The client will call with a problem, the partner will check people's hours, and you'll be back under the bus begging for mercy.

Or the staffing coordinator will and assign you a case. "I've got a full plate" is an acceptable thing to say to the staffing coordinator looking to staff a new matter. "I've hit my hours for the year" will get a chuckle and a "okay Partner X will phone you with details about the matter."

[blurbz]

I wish I had a staffing coordinator. For me, it's just a partner walking into my office and giving me the new matter. If I say "I'm sorry, I've got a full plate," they'd laugh and be like, "well here's dessert!"

[d cooper]

Do any of the attorneys here in biglaw wish they had just said "screw the debt" and gunned for government, midlaw, or otherwise rode the PAYE train? Or do you feel your time investment has been or will be worth it?

[El Pollito]

I wish I had a staffing coordinator. For me, it's just a partner walking into my office and giving me the new matter. If I say "I'm sorry, I've got a full plate," they'd laugh and be like, "well here's dessert!"

[thesealocust]

Do any of the attorneys here in biglaw wish they had just said "screw the debt" and gunned for government, midlaw, or otherwise rode the PAYE train? Or do you feel your time investment has been or will be worth it?

100% worth it. The training, which isn't training but rather sink-or-swim-figure-it-out-or-die-trying, actually is terrific. If there's any merit to the 10,000 hours rule, then there's merit to the long hours early in the career. I'd scrub toilets for $160,000 per year. Living frugally is really easy when somebody else is paying for your meals + transportation and taking away any time you had for debauchery.

"You can do anything for a year" - or even two or three - is actually true, and dolla dolla bills yo.

It's still a constant nightmare and a long-form existential crisis, but I wouldn't have done it differently given the chance and full disclosure about how it would pan out.

[Mal Reynolds]

What's your exit strategy big lawyer bros.

[IAFG]

Do any of the attorneys here in biglaw wish they had just said "screw the debt" and gunned for government, midlaw, or otherwise rode the PAYE train? Or do you feel your time investment has been or will be worth it?

100% worth it. The training, which isn't training but rather sink-or-swim-figure-it-out-or-die-trying, actually is terrific. If there's any merit to the 10,000 hours rule, then there's merit to the long hours early in the career. I'd scrub toilets for $160,000 per year. Living frugally is really easy when somebody else is paying for your meals + transportation and taking away any time you had for debauchery.

"You can do anything for a year" - or even two or three - is actually true, and dolla dolla bills yo.

It's still a constant nightmare and a long-form existential crisis, but I wouldn't have done it differently given the chance and full disclosure about how it would pan out.

As a believer in the 10k hours rule, here's my issue: what do I spend 70-90% of my hours getting amazing at?

[84651846190]

What's your exit strategy big lawyer bros.

Taco truck.

[IAFG]

What's your exit strategy big lawyer bros.

idk partnership or p firm

[84651846190]

What's your exit strategy big lawyer bros.

idk partnership or p firm

i wanna p firm w/ u

[IAFG]

What's your exit strategy big lawyer bros.

idk partnership or p firm

i wanna p firm w/ u

let's sue people

can we somehow sue all the people who cut in front of you with their cars in crosswalks when you have the walk signal? because i would work around the clock on that shit

[84651846190]

What's your exit strategy big lawyer bros.

idk partnership or p firm

i wanna p firm w/ u

let's sue people

can we somehow sue all the people who cut in front of you with their cars in crosswalks when you have the walk signal? because i would work around the clock on that shit

seems like these are pretty clear cases of IIED

[thesealocust]

As a believer in the 10k hours rule, here's my issue: what do I spend 70-90% of my hours getting amazing at?

idk, extracting value from law firms in non-DE jurisdictions? THINKING LIKE A LAWYER? Spotting extra or missing spaces hiding in docs?

It doesn't sound like you're chained to a doc review dungeon, I bet you're learning and developing a fuckload, even if it's painful and/or not obvious

[IAFG]

As a believer in the 10k hours rule, here's my issue: what do I spend 70-90% of my hours getting amazing at?

idk, extracting value from law firms in non-DE jurisdictions? THINKING LIKE A LAWYER? Spotting extra or missing spaces hiding in docs?

It doesn't sound like you're chained to a doc review dungeon, I bet you're learning and developing a fuckload, even if it's painful and/or not obvious

no, i am blessed to mostly avoid doc review but let's be real the skill i have worked the most on is catching typos

[worldtraveler]

Do any of the attorneys here in biglaw wish they had just said "screw the debt" and gunned for government, midlaw, or otherwise rode the PAYE train? Or do you feel your time investment has been or will be worth it?

This isn't directed at me, but I don't regret not going into big law, even though lots of people told me I would and that my choice would hinder my career.

But I am insanely lucky and I think for 90% of law students, pursuing big law and starting at a firm is probably the best call because the alternative has a pretty high failure rate.

[MKC]

Do any of the attorneys here in biglaw wish they had just said "screw the debt" and gunned for government, midlaw, or otherwise rode the PAYE train? Or do you feel your time investment has been or will be worth it?

This isn't directed at me, but I don't regret not going into big law, even though lots of people told me I would and that my choice would hinder my career.

But I am insanely lucky and I think for 90% of law students, pursuing big law and starting at a firm is probably the best call because the alternative has a pretty high failure rate.

I think at some point you get credit for being above average after not getting killed while touristing batshit crazy war zones and you have a unicorn job. I'm gonna say its more than luck at this point.