Bored GULC 3L Taking Questions Forum

BmoreOrLess · Post by **BmoreOrLess** » Fri Mar 27, 2015 8:45 pm

BmoreOrLess wrote:How necessary is it to use the full 11 days for write on? Does it make any difference that my top choice (after the main journal) is the Tax Lawyer? I'm top 1/3ish now but am kind of expecting a slight dip this semester.

bump.

GULCPerson · Post by **GULCPerson** » Fri Mar 27, 2015 10:48 pm

BmoreOrLess wrote:
BmoreOrLess wrote:How necessary is it to use the full 11 days for write on? Does it make any difference that my top choice (after the main journal) is the Tax Lawyer? I'm top 1/3ish now but am kind of expecting a slight dip this semester.
bump.

I get the impression that very few people, if any, spend the entire 11 days. Much more common to relax for the first half, maybe longer, and spend the last, I dunno, 2-5 days on it.

The score breakdown for every non-main journal is pretty similar (in terms of weighing write-on and grades), and TTL is one of like 4 different journals that claim to be the #2 journal, so people with not-quite-main-journal grades tend to scatter around the journals based on interest and most people in the top third who make a competent attempt at the write-on probably get their 2nd choice.

Or, you know, that's an anomaly that only holds true for the handful of people I've discussed this with and it's totally wrong on a larger scale. Whatever.

BmoreOrLess · Post by **BmoreOrLess** » Fri Mar 27, 2015 10:51 pm

So the tax lawyer is competetive relative to the rest of the secondary journals? Fuck

But on my original question, if I go ham the first 7 days I should be fine?

GULCPerson · Post by **GULCPerson** » Fri Mar 27, 2015 11:10 pm

BmoreOrLess wrote:So the tax lawyer is competetive relative to the rest of the secondary journals? Fuck

I dunno? I get the impression that there's a tier where people want Tax/ACLR/Int'l/maybe Ethics based on whatever interest they have in that. As in, most people want exactly one of those. And those are sort of equally competitive in terms of raw qualifications, but some are WAY bigger than others so chances are better. Then below that is the stuff nobody actually wants like poverty/gender/environmental/whatever our other journals are.

The more I think on this the more I realize I don't really know what I'm talking about. I was a little below the top 15% cutoff, did minimal work on the write-on, got on TTL as my second choice, and have the impression that I was towards the top grades-wise of the TTL people. So that's exactly one non-meaningful datapoint.

BmoreOrLess wrote:But on my original question, if I go ham the first 7 days I should be fine?

Yes. You definitely don't *need* 11 days to do it. 7 full days is more time than most people put in.

JustHawkin · Post by **JustHawkin** » Sun Mar 29, 2015 4:06 pm

GULCPerson wrote:
BmoreOrLess wrote:
BmoreOrLess wrote:How necessary is it to use the full 11 days for write on? Does it make any difference that my top choice (after the main journal) is the Tax Lawyer? I'm top 1/3ish now but am kind of expecting a slight dip this semester.
bump.
I get the impression that very few people, if any, spend the entire 11 days. Much more common to relax for the first half, maybe longer, and spend the last, I dunno, 2-5 days on it.

The score breakdown for every non-main journal is pretty similar (in terms of weighing write-on and grades), and TTL is one of like 4 different journals that claim to be the #2 journal, so people with not-quite-main-journal grades tend to scatter around the journals based on interest and most people in the top third who make a competent attempt at the write-on probably get their 2nd choice.

Or, you know, that's an anomaly that only holds true for the handful of people I've discussed this with and it's totally wrong on a larger scale. Whatever.

Which are the 4 journals that claim to be #2?

sambeber · Post by **sambeber** » Sun Mar 29, 2015 4:20 pm

JustHawkin wrote:
GULCPerson wrote:
BmoreOrLess wrote:
BmoreOrLess wrote:How necessary is it to use the full 11 days for write on? Does it make any difference that my top choice (after the main journal) is the Tax Lawyer? I'm top 1/3ish now but am kind of expecting a slight dip this semester.
bump.
I get the impression that very few people, if any, spend the entire 11 days. Much more common to relax for the first half, maybe longer, and spend the last, I dunno, 2-5 days on it.

The score breakdown for every non-main journal is pretty similar (in terms of weighing write-on and grades), and TTL is one of like 4 different journals that claim to be the #2 journal, so people with not-quite-main-journal grades tend to scatter around the journals based on interest and most people in the top third who make a competent attempt at the write-on probably get their 2nd choice.

Or, you know, that's an anomaly that only holds true for the handful of people I've discussed this with and it's totally wrong on a larger scale. Whatever.
Which are the 4 journals that claim to be #2?

As a recent grad, I would say that popular perception is that its really just TTL and ACLR. I'm interested to hear who someone thinks the other two are.

sambeber · Post by **sambeber** » Sun Mar 29, 2015 4:23 pm

BmoreOrLess wrote:
BmoreOrLess wrote:How necessary is it to use the full 11 days for write on? Does it make any difference that my top choice (after the main journal) is the Tax Lawyer? I'm top 1/3ish now but am kind of expecting a slight dip this semester.
bump.

I spent the full amount of time. I know others who started their jobs immediately and didn't. It's pretty hard to tell. I'd say that since write-on is, after a certain threshold, about the amount of effort and time you put in and not rocket science, the more time you spend, the better you'll do. Remember, half of the GLJ spots are through the write-on only.

TLSModBot · Post by **TLSModBot** » Sun Mar 29, 2015 4:31 pm

I'm on Ethics which claims to be up there, if only because it's long running and top on the 'ethics' field. I chose this as my top choice because I wanted to get published and am actually interested in this area.

Is it actually a number 2 or perceived as such? Meh. For OCI purposes, the few firms that care only see main journal or 'everything else.'

GULCPerson · Post by **GULCPerson** » Sun Mar 29, 2015 11:24 pm

JustHawkin wrote:
GULCPerson wrote:
BmoreOrLess wrote:
BmoreOrLess wrote:How necessary is it to use the full 11 days for write on? Does it make any difference that my top choice (after the main journal) is the Tax Lawyer? I'm top 1/3ish now but am kind of expecting a slight dip this semester.
bump.
I get the impression that very few people, if any, spend the entire 11 days. Much more common to relax for the first half, maybe longer, and spend the last, I dunno, 2-5 days on it.

The score breakdown for every non-main journal is pretty similar (in terms of weighing write-on and grades), and TTL is one of like 4 different journals that claim to be the #2 journal, so people with not-quite-main-journal grades tend to scatter around the journals based on interest and most people in the top third who make a competent attempt at the write-on probably get their 2nd choice.

Or, you know, that's an anomaly that only holds true for the handful of people I've discussed this with and it's totally wrong on a larger scale. Whatever.
Which are the 4 journals that claim to be #2?

4 was me remembering wrong. I just looked at the materials from when I did the write-on, and there are actually only 3.
ACLR, TTL, and International all require you to put them in the top 2 to be considered (or at least they did my year), so that's what I was going off. Ethics and Public Policy required top 3, everything else was more vague.

I agree with sambeber that in terms of how much students care about journals, you hear more about ACLR and TTL than you do the International journal though. And Zacharus is correct that as far as employers are concerned, there's Main Journal and Not-Main Journal.

buckiguy_sucks · Post by **buckiguy_sucks** » Tue Mar 31, 2015 9:32 am

Post removed.

sambeber · Post by **sambeber** » Tue Mar 31, 2015 9:53 am

buckiguy_sucks wrote:Curious about the self selection argument. Are median bros getting Big Law jobs/SAs? Is 26% of the class doing gov't/PI over Big Law or do you actually need to be top 1/3 to get it?

ETA: saw OP answer it on the first page but was wondering if it still feels the same for current students

There is some self-selection. Some. There are definitely people I know who easily could have had BigLaw jobs (good grades, good personality) who didn't go through EIW and ended up in government, public interest, etc. This is true at every school though, I suspect. Are there marginally more people in this group at GULC than elsewhere? Maybe. Probably? But probably not so many more as GULC OCS would like you to think. And probably not 26%. I also know multiple people who struck out at OCI and now work in government/public interest.

On the other hand, I know a fair amount of people who have BigLaw jobs now who were/are outside the top third. Firm bios and graduation honors (or lack thereof) give you a decent sense of this, though of course people might change their effort levels after 1L. Definitely some median bros get BigLaw, but I'd think you have to do everything you can to maximize your odds to make this happen (apply widely for EIW, mass mail, interview in NYC and your hometown and everywhere else).

TLSModBot · Post by **TLSModBot** » Tue Mar 31, 2015 10:24 am

Most people I know my year who wanted BigLaw, got BigLaw - this was a smattering of top 5% to lower median-ish.

I do know people from each year who struck out - but all of them seriously did not have a game plan for law school in the first place, let alone OCI. Some people from my class were seriously pushing for public interest stuff, so there is *some* self-selection at least.

All of this is, of course, mere anecdata, but of the 50-60 people I know and follow up with throughout GULC, no one who wanted BigLaw (and wasn't a complete goober) managed to get something in the V100.

Point is: there is some self selection (As noted in more detail by previous posters) and also some 'natural selection.'

buckiguy_sucks · Post by **buckiguy_sucks** » Tue Mar 31, 2015 10:37 am

Post removed.

sambeber · Post by **sambeber** » Tue Mar 31, 2015 10:46 am

buckiguy_sucks wrote:Hey zacharus, are PTers ranked with the people they are graduating with or do they get their own class ranking specific to PT?

Not zacharus, but their own after 1L (like all sections) and then combined after that. There are just generic upperclass cutoffs for non-1Ls and then graduation cutoffs for your class when you graduate.

buckiguy_sucks · Post by **buckiguy_sucks** » Tue Mar 31, 2015 10:49 am

Post removed.

TLSModBot · Post by **TLSModBot** » Tue Mar 31, 2015 10:54 am

sambeber wrote:
buckiguy_sucks wrote:Hey zacharus, are PTers ranked with the people they are graduating with or do they get their own class ranking specific to PT?
Not zacharus, but their own after 1L (like all sections) and then combined after that. There are just generic upperclass cutoffs after for non-1Ls and then graduation cutoffs for your class when you graduate.

This is correct. We're on a 4-year system. So for the first two-years, we're ranked in our own section, and then after that we're just part of the generic upperclass.

Jessicakes90 · Post by **Jessicakes90** » Tue Mar 31, 2015 4:10 pm

Can anyone else comment on the class size and your experience with fellow classmates and professors at GULC?

I'm most likely going to attend this fall, but I sat in on a class at Emory this past week and was really impressed with how welcoming the professors were and how collegial the students were. They seem to really emphasize an open-door policy and the professors seemed genuinely invested in their students.

Is this also the case at Georgetown despite the larger class size? have this mental image that I would just love to dispell of classes at GULC being simply namecards and cold-calling (a la Paper Chase lol). I'm intending to visit a class but won't be able to until late April unfortunately.

TYIA!

TLSModBot · Post by **TLSModBot** » Tue Mar 31, 2015 4:17 pm

No school is actually like the paper chase. Jesus.

If this is seriously what you're basing your decision on, go to Emory. GULC has plenty of goobers already.

Jessicakes90 · Post by **Jessicakes90** » Tue Mar 31, 2015 4:40 pm

Hah. I'm certainly not asinine enough to base my decision entirely on nice people and good feelings. I appreciate the life advice though!

tuxedocat · Post by **tuxedocat** » Tue Mar 31, 2015 6:12 pm

Am I the only one that thinks the class size thing is kind of overblown? 1L sections are still like 90 people, right? So who cares how many people your 1L class has in total? Maybe I'm missing something.

TLSModBot · Post by **TLSModBot** » Tue Mar 31, 2015 6:25 pm

tuxedocat wrote:Am I the only one that thinks the class size thing is kind of overblown? 1L sections are still like 90 people, right? So who cares how many people your 1L class has in total? Maybe I'm missing something.

You're right. Classes never get higher than that. And you're only faceless in a crowd if you want to be. My section (evening - so only 55 of us) got to know each other and our professors pretty well.

BmoreOrLess · Post by **BmoreOrLess** » Tue Mar 31, 2015 6:37 pm

If you want teachers to know your name, they'll know your name and get to know you; if you want to sit back and never speak a word, they won't (and it wont hurt you explicitly). Honestly, the large classes really just feel like a small class where 30ish people talk all the time. The rest of us just sit back.

Only one of my classes this year has been aggressive paperchase-type cold calling.

TLSModBot · Post by **TLSModBot** » Tue Mar 31, 2015 6:40 pm

BMore: which prof? I have yet to deal with cold calling.

Jessicakes90 · Post by **Jessicakes90** » Tue Mar 31, 2015 6:42 pm

BmoreOrLess wrote:If you want teachers to know your name, they'll know your name and get to know you; if you want to sit back and never speak a word, they won't (and it wont hurt you explicitly). Honestly, the large classes really just feel like a small class where 30ish people talk all the time. The rest of us just sit back.

Only one of my classes this year has been aggressive paperchase-type cold calling.

Thanks so much!

tuxedocat wrote:Am I the only one that thinks the class size thing is kind of overblown? 1L sections are still like 90 people, right? So who cares how many people your 1L class has in total? Maybe I'm missing something.

It's more about how many people are in your physical section (at least, in my understanding) than your 1L class size. Whenever someone mentions how large GULC is, people cringe. But it's nice to know it's not really a factor at all.

GULCPerson · Post by **GULCPerson** » Tue Mar 31, 2015 7:10 pm

zacharus85 wrote:BMore: which prof? I have yet to deal with cold calling.

You really didn't have any cold calling 1L year? 2L and 3L my classes have been, at worst, "second row, be ready for questions tomorrow" but nearly all classes 1L year were more like "Mr... [professor spins bingo wheel in head].... Jones, can you please tell us the facts of Hedgepeth v. WMATA." I thought that was the norm.