Michigan 1Ls/2Ls/3Ls taking questions Forum

[tamlyric]

Could someone comment on how selection is done for the clinics? I have a strong interest in one or two of them and I'm wondering if it'll be based primarily on grades, resume, or something else.

Thanks!

You apply for them, and I think it's probably based on the interest you demonstrate in filling out the application (probably a combination of relevant classes you've taken and the little essays you write).

Are some clinics notoriously difficult to get into?

[Alexandria]

Could someone comment on how selection is done for the clinics? I have a strong interest in one or two of them and I'm wondering if it'll be based primarily on grades, resume, or something else.

Thanks!

You apply for them, and I think it's probably based on the interest you demonstrate in filling out the application (probably a combination of relevant classes you've taken and the little essays you write).

Are some clinics notoriously difficult to get into?

Yeah, I think so, though I'm not entirely sure which ones (never applied for a clinic myself). If I had to guess, I'd say Innocence Clinic and General Clinic are the hardest to get into.

That's why you apply for (and rank by preference) several, and they advise you not to wait until 3L to start trying to get into one.

[betsyanna]

Are some clinics notoriously difficult to get into?

I think the Innocence Clinic and the Human Trafficking Clinic are the tough ones. HT is really small, from what I've heard, and you need to have a good reason for wanting to do it.

FWIW I did the General Clinic, which sounds kind of lame but was actually amazing. My clinic partner and I handled a DV asylum case, several small criminal cases, a real estate case, and an immigration case. Learned a ton, loved the clinical faculty.

[navalspartan]

How flexible are the schedules of different clinics? What kind of time commitment is involved for various clinics?

[betsyanna]

How flexible are the schedules of different clinics? What kind of time commitment is involved for various clinics?

This varies a lot. I think the transactional clinics are less time, but they're also worth fewer credits.

The general clinic was a ton of time, but worth 7 credits. It had a classroom component with simulation-type stuff, plus 6 "office hours" a week for dealing with cases. I took two other classes with the clinic and had a crazy semester. So glad I did it, though.

[cutiewiddlebebe]

For those who live in the Lawyers Club, what are the storage options for the summer between 1L and 2L? Is there storage on campus, perhaps even in the building itself? Thanks.

[beesknees]

I also have a question regarding housing. Did you guys take out enough $ to cover the summer months? If you didn't, for those who lived off-campus, did you get a 8-9 month lease or did you bite the bullet and pay for 3 months that you weren't there? I'm trying to work out my student budget, but given the $17k/year figure for living expenses, it would be hard to borrow enough to cover a 12 month lease. I'm really running off of a bare-bones budget for everything else - I lived well-below the cost of living at my UG. What am I missing?

[Aeroplane]

I also have a question regarding housing. Did you guys take out enough $ to cover the summer months? If you didn't, for those who lived off-campus, did you get a 8-9 month lease or did you bite the bullet and pay for 3 months that you weren't there? I'm trying to work out my student budget, but given the $17k/year figure for living expenses, it would be hard to borrow enough to cover a 12 month lease. I'm really running off of a bare-bones budget for everything else - I lived well-below the cost of living at my UG. What am I missing?

I chose to do a 10-month lease this year, at a premium. The other option is to do a 12-month lease and try to find a subletter for the summer. In my experience, outside of the big shiny apt complex-type buildings, landlords are willing to negotiate creative terms as long as there's something in it for them. My lease for next year is 9 months, for which I'm paying a $50/mo premium.

[beesknees]

Yeah, I'll see if I can find a place that will allow for a shorter lease. It'll be a pain in the butt to move everything out each summer, but its way better than paying for 3 months rent that I won't be using. I assume trying to sublet in the summer is probably really difficult considering that there's a lot of people trying to sublet to a small group of people that will be in Ann Arbor for the summer.

[Alexandria]

Yeah, I'll see if I can find a place that will allow for a shorter lease. It'll be a pain in the butt to move everything out each summer, but its way better than paying for 3 months rent that I won't be using. I assume trying to sublet in the summer is probably really difficult considering that there's a lot of people trying to sublet to a small group of people that will be in Ann Arbor for the summer.

It's definitely hard. We didn't even try, bc we live too far from campus. But if you live in a really prime spot, there's always a chance that some summer starter law student(s) will sublet from you.

[choosing a ls]

Not a direct UMich question, but would one (or more) of you consider weighing in on the thread linked below? I am likely faced with a decision very soon:

http://www.top-law-schools.com/forums/v ... 1&t=111893

i unfortunately missed the opportunity to visit U of M earlier this month so i'm going to have to make this decision blind + what I've read in this thread

[JRMjr]

Not a direct UMich question, but would one (or more) of you consider weighing in on the thread linked below? I am likely faced with a decision very soon:

http://www.top-law-schools.com/forums/v ... 1&t=111893

i unfortunately missed the opportunity to visit U of M earlier this month so i'm going to have to make this decision blind + what I've read in this thread

Michigan or NYU by a wide margin

[Lawlcat]

Not a direct UMich question, but would one (or more) of you consider weighing in on the thread linked below? I am likely faced with a decision very soon:

http://www.top-law-schools.com/forums/v ... 1&t=111893

i unfortunately missed the opportunity to visit U of M earlier this month so i'm going to have to make this decision blind + what I've read in this thread

Like I said over on that thread:

• If you get the money, NYU (barring, say, an offer from Yale; then it depends on if you want to do NY biglaw or academics)
• If you don't get the money, depends entirely on your preferences: you are in the enviable position of having a bunch of stellar schools to choose from, and you should pick the one that meshes best with your particular traits as an applicant (e.g. where you want to practice) and your personality.
• Caveat: UT and USC are maybe a little lacking in relative prestige outside their regions, and unfortunately law requires us to think about things like "prestige".

[Bauer24]

If any of you did the summer starter program, do you think it was worth it or would you have started in the fall instead?

[betsyanna]

If any of you did the summer starter program, do you think it was worth it or would you have started in the fall instead?

i didn't summer start, but i think summer starters do have a big advantage over fall starters when it comes to 1L summer jobs and 3L clerkship applications.

[tamlyric]

If any of you did the summer starter program, do you think it was worth it or would you have started in the fall instead?

i didn't summer start, but i think summer starters do have a big advantage over fall starters when it comes to 1L summer jobs and 3L clerkship applications.

really? why is this? do others agree?

[starstruck393]

If any of you did the summer starter program, do you think it was worth it or would you have started in the fall instead?

i didn't summer start, but i think summer starters do have a big advantage over fall starters when it comes to 1L summer jobs and 3L clerkship applications.

really? why is this? do others agree?

I think at very least those who do well summer term would get a leg up for 1L summer jobs. You can begin applying ~1.5 to 2 months before fall grades come out. For fall starters, UG GPA likely wouldn't mean that much, LSAT is unlikely to even be mentioned, typical UG softs probably won't count for much. Outside of those that had meaningful work experience, most fall starters will be just a name until fall grades get posted. Contrast that with a summer starter who has a good LS GPA to show, and now you have someone with a good first semester vs. someone who may or may not have had a good first semester. Other factors being relatively equal, I'd think the summer starter would win that comparison most of the time.

[tamlyric]

If any of you did the summer starter program, do you think it was worth it or would you have started in the fall instead?

i didn't summer start, but i think summer starters do have a big advantage over fall starters when it comes to 1L summer jobs and 3L clerkship applications.

really? why is this? do others agree?

I think at very least those who do well summer term would get a leg up for 1L summer jobs. You can begin applying ~1.5 to 2 months before fall grades come out. For fall starters, UG GPA likely wouldn't mean that much, LSAT is unlikely to even be mentioned, typical UG softs probably won't count for much. Outside of those that had meaningful work experience, most fall starters will be just a name until fall grades get posted. Contrast that with a summer starter who has a good LS GPA to show, and now you have someone with a good first semester vs. someone who may or may not have had a good first semester. Other factors being relatively equal, I'd think the summer starter would win that comparison most of the time.

Ahhh, yes. That makes total sense. I guess I was more curious about the claim with respect to 3L clerkship applications. Is it because summer starters would generally have higher GPAs than their fall counterparts because they'd have taken more 2L and 3L classes? In any case, is there anecdotal (or better) evidence that the summer starter advantage is more than just a distinct possibility?

Thanks!

[Alexandria]

Yeah, I'm curious about this, too, since I've never heard any of my other classmates say anything about an advantage in the clerkship process. Re: 1L jobs, it all depends on if their summer semester grades are good or not... a known bad quantity is worse than an unknown quantity.

[betsyanna]

They can apply earlier for clerkships than the rest of us. I don't know all the details, not being a summer starter myself. But I believe they can start sending their apps in spring/summer, whereas fall starter applications go through OSCAR and get released to judges in early September. Since many judges like to get their hiring done early, it's a big advantage to apply early.

(Of course, fall starters can ignore the federal hiring plan and try to send their apps early--but the school won't release any letters of recs at that time, and OCS will get mad at you if they find out.)

[Alexandria]

They can apply earlier for clerkships than the rest of us.

I never knew that! I wonder if it's because certain judges have staggered start dates for their clerks.

[jms1987]

What's Michigans west coast placement like ITE?

[beesknees]

If any of you did the summer starter program, do you think it was worth it or would you have started in the fall instead?

i didn't summer start, but i think summer starters do have a big advantage over fall starters when it comes to 1L summer jobs and 3L clerkship applications.

I had a question about this. At least with 1L summer jobs, isn't there a certain date (like Nov 1 or something) before which you are not allowed to ask CS about employment or send out mass mailings to employers? Because if that's the case, SSers can't apply earlier, they just have a set of grades that FSers have to wait til January to get, right? That's probably an advantage, but its not like employers wouldn't have their timelines adjusted for a January release of grades since that's when all of the other schools will release grades.

Also, I think if you did well in the summer term, you probably would've done well in the fall term. If you have bad grades in the summer, its not going to do much good, unless you somehow can mitigate it with your fall grades.

I think I see that SSers have some advantage, but it doesn't seem that huge. Or am I missing something?

[Alexandria]

If any of you did the summer starter program, do you think it was worth it or would you have started in the fall instead?

i didn't summer start, but i think summer starters do have a big advantage over fall starters when it comes to 1L summer jobs and 3L clerkship applications.

I had a question about this. At least with 1L summer jobs, isn't there a certain date (like Nov 1 or something) before which you are not allowed to ask CS about employment or send out mass mailings to employers? Because if that's the case, SSers can't apply earlier, they just have a set of grades that FSers have to wait til January to get, right?

This is right.

[betsyanna]

I think I see that SSers have some advantage, but it doesn't seem that huge. Or am I missing something?

i think it's just that they have more experience. they've taken more stuff, they have some grades reported. it's my impression that employers view them more like 2Ls than 1Ls during that first summer. but true that if they have bad grades summer and fall, they're not gonna land a great firm job.