Indiana University - Bloomington students taking questions Forum

[kings84_wr]

Or better yet...a suit made of pancakes.
Unrelated Question: What exactly is a hoosier?

I like to think Stake has his suit pockets done custom to fit pancakes.

I'm pretty sure a Hoosier just means an Indianan (see, that term doesn't really roll off the tongue). It's an older phrase that means someone from Indiana. Which makes our mascot pretty terrible.

About as bad as a Buckeye. At least Hoosiers is a great movie.

[tlabrum3]

I'll most likely be heading to IU this fall. My wife and I are looking for a 2 bedroom place. I'd prefer to be very close to the law school. Any apartment complexes that I should look into? And what price can I expect to pay for that proximity?

[tiansnake]

Hey guys,
I just got admitted by both IU Bloomington and Cardozo. Their scholarship are the same $ vs. $. For me it seems that ranking(or quality) and location are the only differences left. I'm thinking about go to IUB for its ranking(20 higher that Cardozo) but my friend told me to go to NYC for better job prospect. One more factor that makes me lean toward IUB is that the peer review of Cardozo on US News rankings is 2.8/5.0 while IUB is 3.4/5.0.
Is my consideration for these school mature? Anything I should have added but missed? I would really appreciate if you guys could share your thoughts with me.
Thank you!

[Lwoods]

Hey guys,
I just got admitted by both IU Bloomington and Cardozo. Their scholarship are the same $ vs. $. For me it seems that ranking(or quality) and location are the only differences left. I'm thinking about go to IUB for its ranking(20 higher that Cardozo) but my friend told me to go to NYC for better job prospect. One more factor that makes me lean toward IUB is that the peer review of Cardozo on US News rankings is 2.8/5.0 while IUB is 3.4/5.0.
Is my consideration for these school mature? Anything I should have added but missed? I would really appreciate if you guys could share your thoughts with me.
Thank you!

Before returning to the Midwest, I worked for a V50 firm. I worked for two amazing women, one who is a partner at the firm, the other who had been on the recruiting committee for the firm but has since moved on to be a managing director at one of the big banks. I was chatting with the latter a year ago about which schools I would apply to if my husband matched in NY, naming the usual suspects (Columbia, NYU, Fordham, Cardozo). She said to not even bother to apply to Cardozo because it's on its way down. And, well, it is a bit of a joke school at my old firm (which is sad, because I know a number of bright people there).

I do think it will be difficult to break into the NY market from IU, but at least you will have a genuinely respected school on your resume for the entirety of your career. Maybe call the IU admissions office to see if there are any NYC based alumni you could speak with about the transition from IU to NYC.

I'm also not sure about the student environment at IUB (hopefully the current students can speak to that), but I've heard that Cardozo is particularly cut-throat. So, that's something to consider as well.

Will you get a chance to visit both?

[pcvmeli]

So I am trying to decide between IU and a few other schools. My biggest concern is living in a college town. I went to undergrad in New Orleans and have never lived in a college town. I am worried that I will be irritated by undergrads and greek life or feel separated from city life. Can anyone convince me that these things won't happen? I really like IU and this is pretty much the only thing that is keeping me from committing.

[danquayle]

So I am trying to decide between IU and a few other schools. My biggest concern is living in a college town. I went to undergrad in New Orleans and have never lived in a college town. I am worried that I will be irritated by undergrads and greek life or feel separated from city life. Can anyone convince me that these things won't happen? I really like IU and this is pretty much the only thing that is keeping me from committing.

I mean... its a college town, but a pretty sophisticated one. I enjoyed the college vibe, but the law school is on the corner of campus near the nice restaurant spots. And there a massive number of graduate students, so I don't think you'll feel overwhelmed by the undergrads. Just avoid their hotspots (SPORTS) and they really need not even register.

Oh, and aside from a handful on 3rd, all of the dorms and greek houses are way up on the north side, like a half hour walk. So in other words, you're not going to be submerged in undergrads by any means.

[AboveTheLawSchool]

When can summer starters expect to get their grade back? September? Or January? (or other)

[LogosEther]

Hey guys,
I just got admitted by both IU Bloomington and Cardozo. Their scholarship are the same $ vs. $. For me it seems that ranking(or quality) and location are the only differences left. I'm thinking about go to IUB for its ranking(20 higher that Cardozo) but my friend told me to go to NYC for better job prospect. One more factor that makes me lean toward IUB is that the peer review of Cardozo on US News rankings is 2.8/5.0 while IUB is 3.4/5.0.
Is my consideration for these school mature? Anything I should have added but missed? I would really appreciate if you guys could share your thoughts with me.
Thank you!

I'm a little confused about this, though. Do you definitely want to end up working in NYC, or are you unsure?

[seriously????]

Or better yet...a suit made of pancakes.



Unrelated Question: What exactly is a hoosier?

I like to think Stake has his suit pockets done custom to fit pancakes.

I'm pretty sure a Hoosier just means an Indianan (see, that term doesn't really roll off the tongue). It's an older phrase that means someone from Indiana. Which makes our mascot pretty terrible.

hoosier does refer to an indianan, but it has something to do with the dialect back in the day when the land was being settled or what not, people would come by and a person would call out "who there" which sounded like Hoosier.

[seriously????]

Hey guys,
I just got admitted by both IU Bloomington and Cardozo. Their scholarship are the same $ vs. $. For me it seems that ranking(or quality) and location are the only differences left. I'm thinking about go to IUB for its ranking(20 higher that Cardozo) but my friend told me to go to NYC for better job prospect. One more factor that makes me lean toward IUB is that the peer review of Cardozo on US News rankings is 2.8/5.0 while IUB is 3.4/5.0.
Is my consideration for these school mature? Anything I should have added but missed? I would really appreciate if you guys could share your thoughts with me.
Thank you!

Before returning to the Midwest, I worked for a V50 firm. I worked for two amazing women, one who is a partner at the firm, the other who had been on the recruiting committee for the firm but has since moved on to be a managing director at one of the big banks. I was chatting with the latter a year ago about which schools I would apply to if my husband matched in NY, naming the usual suspects (Columbia, NYU, Fordham, Cardozo). She said to not even bother to apply to Cardozo because it's on its way down. And, well, it is a bit of a joke school at my old firm (which is sad, because I know a number of bright people there).

I do think it will be difficult to break into the NY market from IU, but at least you will have a genuinely respected school on your resume for the entirety of your career. Maybe call the IU admissions office to see if there are any NYC based alumni you could speak with about the transition from IU to NYC.

I'm also not sure about the student environment at IUB (hopefully the current students can speak to that), but I've heard that Cardozo is particularly cut-throat. So, that's something to consider as well.

Will you get a chance to visit both?

I am sorry, but your opinion is biased. HARDLY ANYBODY ON THE EAST COAST HAS HEARD OF IUB LAW. That is just a fact. Your opinion, like so many other midwesterners is accurate for respective midwesterners, IUB is a good school for the midwest, and if you live in the midwest and want to work there, by all means go to IUB. But I have yet hear a single post from a student or graduate from the East who can say that IUB has a solid reputation there. Cardozo always places in the NLJ 250, IUB never did. So you may think a school like a cardozo is a shit hole, but the the 10-20 percent of graduates who are working biglaw in the worlds biggest legal market will most likely disagree with a statement that IUB is better reputation wise.

[chrisnashville]

I am sorry, but your opinion is biased. HARDLY ANYBODY ON THE EAST COAST HAS HEARD OF IUB LAW. That is just a fact. Your opinion, like so many other midwesterners is accurate for respective midwesterners, IUB is a good school for the midwest, and if you live in the midwest and want to work there, by all means go to IUB. But I have yet hear a single post from a student or graduate from the East who can say that IUB has a solid reputation there. Cardozo always places in the NLJ 250, IUB never did. So you may think a school like a cardozo is a shit hole, but the the 10-20 percent of graduates who are working biglaw in the worlds biggest legal market will most likely disagree with a statement that IUB is better reputation wise.

Yikes. Not sure her reply warranted this. Calm down.

[Lwoods]

Hey guys,
I just got admitted by both IU Bloomington and Cardozo. Their scholarship are the same $ vs. $. For me it seems that ranking(or quality) and location are the only differences left. I'm thinking about go to IUB for its ranking(20 higher that Cardozo) but my friend told me to go to NYC for better job prospect. One more factor that makes me lean toward IUB is that the peer review of Cardozo on US News rankings is 2.8/5.0 while IUB is 3.4/5.0.
Is my consideration for these school mature? Anything I should have added but missed? I would really appreciate if you guys could share your thoughts with me.
Thank you!

Before returning to the Midwest, I worked for a V50 firm. I worked for two amazing women, one who is a partner at the firm, the other who had been on the recruiting committee for the firm but has since moved on to be a managing director at one of the big banks. I was chatting with the latter a year ago about which schools I would apply to if my husband matched in NY, naming the usual suspects (Columbia, NYU, Fordham, Cardozo). She said to not even bother to apply to Cardozo because it's on its way down. And, well, it is a bit of a joke school at my old firm (which is sad, because I know a number of bright people there).

I do think it will be difficult to break into the NY market from IU, but at least you will have a genuinely respected school on your resume for the entirety of your career. Maybe call the IU admissions office to see if there are any NYC based alumni you could speak with about the transition from IU to NYC.

I'm also not sure about the student environment at IUB (hopefully the current students can speak to that), but I've heard that Cardozo is particularly cut-throat. So, that's something to consider as well.

Will you get a chance to visit both?

I am sorry, but your opinion is biased. HARDLY ANYBODY ON THE EAST COAST HAS HEARD OF IUB LAW. That is just a fact. Your opinion, like so many other midwesterners is accurate for respective midwesterners, IUB is a good school for the midwest, and if you live in the midwest and want to work there, by all means go to IUB. But I have yet hear a single post from a student or graduate from the East who can say that IUB has a solid reputation there. Cardozo always places in the NLJ 250, IUB never did. So you may think a school like a cardozo is a shit hole, but the the 10-20 percent of graduates who are working biglaw in the worlds biggest legal market will most likely disagree with a statement that IUB is better reputation wise.

I am a native Midwesterner, but I did spend 8 years in NYC (4 years studying/working, 4 years working). Because I grew up in Indiana, I was extra aware of the reputation of Midwest schools when living in New York. I mean, I can't tell you what the NY BigLaw attorneys I worked with think about UNC or UC Davis or Tulane, because I've never lived in those regions. But, I did notice perceptions of IUB, ND, UIUC. One very senior attorney, for example, went to IU for undergrad, Yale for Law School. Obviously, Yale > IUB, but he knows IU's law school and believes it to be respectable. The other attorney I worked with (a current partner) went to Purdue for undergrad, GW for law school, so again, she knows and thinks highly of IUB. And the attorney who told me not to bother applying to Cardozo? She's never lived in a flyover state, but, as she was on the recruiting committee for the firm, she also knows that IUB is a decent law school.
Now, if tiansnake's primary goal after law school is to get a job in NYC, then yes, Cardozo will continue to place a higher percentage of its graduates in NYC than IUB because it has to.

But, my interactions with attorneys, even those on Cardozo's home turf, lead me to the same conclusion that the US News Peer rankings indicate: IUB is more respected than Cardozo. And that, to me, means flexibility. I was also considering the trajectory. Cardozo is getting less respected; IUB has been respectable and seems to be making strides to maintain a good reputation.

IUB is at a disadvantage because it lacks the home turf that Cardozo does. But, students should use that to their advantage by seeking out the alumni in the various markets. If you want NY, seek out those IUB grads working in NY and start networking now.

fwiw, if this was full ride at IUB vs. full ride at Fordham, I would absolutely endorse Fordham. I just wanted to provide the insight I can given the [admittedly limited] experience I've had.

Good luck with your decision, tiansnake! Sorry for the novel.

[tiansnake]

I'm a little confused about this, though. Do you definitely want to end up working in NYC, or are you unsure?

I live in Boston and I am thinking of practicing in the east coast. So NYC seems to me a quite attractive option. But as a 0L, I'm kind of unsure now.

[tiansnake]

She said to not even bother to apply to Cardozo because it's on its way down. And, well, it is a bit of a joke school at my old firm (which is sad, because I know a number of bright people there).

Thank you for your reply, your experience at a top firm is definitely helpful! But I'm a little confused with what I've heard about 'Dozo's trend. Some people say that Dozo is on a up-going trend and is,as someone describes, a "rising star". So is it actually going downward? Thanks.

Will you get a chance to visit both?

I'm not currently planning to do that, but I could definitely talk to their people in the offices. But do you think I could get any useful information? Cuz I think they would sure hide their shortcomings.

[tiansnake]

I am a native Midwesterner, but I did spend 8 years in NYC (4 years studying/working, 4 years working). Because I grew up in Indiana, I was extra aware of the reputation of Midwest schools when living in New York. I mean, I can't tell you what the NY BigLaw attorneys I worked with think about UNC or UC Davis or Tulane, because I've never lived in those regions. But, I did notice perceptions of IUB, ND, UIUC. One very senior attorney, for example, went to IU for undergrad, Yale for Law School. Obviously, Yale > IUB, but he knows IU's law school and believes it to be respectable. The other attorney I worked with (a current partner) went to Purdue for undergrad, GW for law school, so again, she knows and thinks highly of IUB. And the attorney who told me not to bother applying to Cardozo? She's never lived in a flyover state, but, as she was on the recruiting committee for the firm, she also knows that IUB is a decent law school.
Now, if tiansnake's primary goal after law school is to get a job in NYC, then yes, Cardozo will continue to place a higher percentage of its graduates in NYC than IUB because it has to.

But, my interactions with attorneys, even those on Cardozo's home turf, lead me to the same conclusion that the US News Peer rankings indicate: IUB is more respected than Cardozo. And that, to me, means flexibility. I was also considering the trajectory. Cardozo is getting less respected; IUB has been respectable and seems to be making strides to maintain a good reputation.

IUB is at a disadvantage because it lacks the home turf that Cardozo does. But, students should use that to their advantage by seeking out the alumni in the various markets. If you want NY, seek out those IUB grads working in NY and start networking now.

fwiw, if this was full ride at IUB vs. full ride at Fordham, I would absolutely endorse Fordham. I just wanted to provide the insight I can given the [admittedly limited] experience I've had.

Good luck with your decision, tiansnake! Sorry for the novel.

THANK YOU SO MUCH. If this answer could be a real novel, it's definitely my favorite book! Thank you for sharing with me your experiences. It is of immense help to me when considering where to spend the next three very important years. I think it's really important to know what the hiring people think. Thank you again!

[kcfella]

Okay, so I posted this in another thread, but I want current students to play too.

So, anyone holding a USN&WR ranking release party on Monday night?

Will IU move? Up? Down? How much? Why?

Discuss

(This could help me get through another unproductive Friday at work).

[danquayle]

Okay, so I posted this in another thread, but I want current students to play too.

So, anyone holding a USN&WR ranking release party on Monday night?

Will IU move? Up? Down? How much? Why?

Discuss

(This could help me get through another unproductive Friday at work).

Hold steady or go down. The biggest way they have to improve their ranking now is through incoming class stats. I think they've maxed out their other metrics as they're already ranked higher than their class profile merits.

They should make a considerable leap in medians this year, but the numbers used will be last years...

[Spoonmanners]

Okay, so I posted this in another thread, but I want current students to play too.

So, anyone holding a USN&WR ranking release party on Monday night?

Will IU move? Up? Down? How much? Why?

Discuss

(This could help me get through another unproductive Friday at work).

It's spring break, so I couldn't care less. I also find the US News countdown clock really douchey. Not sure about predictions. Our admissions people seem to keep pumping up GPA and ignoring LSAT. Wouldn't really be surprised whatever the outcome.

[seriously????]

Hey guys,
I just got admitted by both IU Bloomington and Cardozo. Their scholarship are the same $ vs. $. For me it seems that ranking(or quality) and location are the only differences left. I'm thinking about go to IUB for its ranking(20 higher that Cardozo) but my friend told me to go to NYC for better job prospect. One more factor that makes me lean toward IUB is that the peer review of Cardozo on US News rankings is 2.8/5.0 while IUB is 3.4/5.0.
Is my consideration for these school mature? Anything I should have added but missed? I would really appreciate if you guys could share your thoughts with me.
Thank you!

Before returning to the Midwest, I worked for a V50 firm. I worked for two amazing women, one who is a partner at the firm, the other who had been on the recruiting committee for the firm but has since moved on to be a managing director at one of the big banks. I was chatting with the latter a year ago about which schools I would apply to if my husband matched in NY, naming the usual suspects (Columbia, NYU, Fordham, Cardozo). She said to not even bother to apply to Cardozo because it's on its way down. And, well, it is a bit of a joke school at my old firm (which is sad, because I know a number of bright people there).

I do think it will be difficult to break into the NY market from IU, but at least you will have a genuinely respected school on your resume for the entirety of your career. Maybe call the IU admissions office to see if there are any NYC based alumni you could speak with about the transition from IU to NYC.

I'm also not sure about the student environment at IUB (hopefully the current students can speak to that), but I've heard that Cardozo is particularly cut-throat. So, that's something to consider as well.

Will you get a chance to visit both?

I am sorry, but your opinion is biased. HARDLY ANYBODY ON THE EAST COAST HAS HEARD OF IUB LAW. That is just a fact. Your opinion, like so many other midwesterners is accurate for respective midwesterners, IUB is a good school for the midwest, and if you live in the midwest and want to work there, by all means go to IUB. But I have yet hear a single post from a student or graduate from the East who can say that IUB has a solid reputation there. Cardozo always places in the NLJ 250, IUB never did. So you may think a school like a cardozo is a shit hole, but the the 10-20 percent of graduates who are working biglaw in the worlds biggest legal market will most likely disagree with a statement that IUB is better reputation wise.

I am a native Midwesterner, but I did spend 8 years in NYC (4 years studying/working, 4 years working). Because I grew up in Indiana, I was extra aware of the reputation of Midwest schools when living in New York. I mean, I can't tell you what the NY BigLaw attorneys I worked with think about UNC or UC Davis or Tulane, because I've never lived in those regions. But, I did notice perceptions of IUB, ND, UIUC. One very senior attorney, for example, went to IU for undergrad, Yale for Law School. Obviously, Yale > IUB, but he knows IU's law school and believes it to be respectable. The other attorney I worked with (a current partner) went to Purdue for undergrad, GW for law school, so again, she knows and thinks highly of IUB. And the attorney who told me not to bother applying to Cardozo? She's never lived in a flyover state, but, as she was on the recruiting committee for the firm, she also knows that IUB is a decent law school.
Now, if tiansnake's primary goal after law school is to get a job in NYC, then yes, Cardozo will continue to place a higher percentage of its graduates in NYC than IUB because it has to.

But, my interactions with attorneys, even those on Cardozo's home turf, lead me to the same conclusion that the US News Peer rankings indicate: IUB is more respected than Cardozo. And that, to me, means flexibility. I was also considering the trajectory. Cardozo is getting less respected; IUB has been respectable and seems to be making strides to maintain a good reputation.

IUB is at a disadvantage because it lacks the home turf that Cardozo does. But, students should use that to their advantage by seeking out the alumni in the various markets. If you want NY, seek out those IUB grads working in NY and start networking now.

fwiw, if this was full ride at IUB vs. full ride at Fordham, I would absolutely endorse Fordham. I just wanted to provide the insight I can given the [admittedly limited] experience I've had.

Good luck with your decision, tiansnake! Sorry for the novel.

OK, I do appreciate some of the feedback. Like you said, IUB may be considered a "decent school", but where will that get you? I am just saying if you want to get back to the east coast, which will be easier? Making coldcalls to the few IU alum, and having to fly out to the east coast everytime an interview pops up. Or, live in the east coast, establishing more personal connections by meeting face to face, and not only having the overwhelmingly larger alumni base of the east coast school present, but also have the opportunity to pound the pavement and make networks outside of alumni?
Again, if one was from the midwest, and offered a near full ride, it would be an easy choice. However, one needs to weigh the USnews ranking with actual job placements. It is certainly an anomaly that IUB does not place in the top NLJ 250 law frims (top 50 schools). Again, there are not too many biglaw firms in Indy, but then again, there are not a lot of biglaw firms at WUSTL,UIUC, nor ND, but they constantly place in the top 25 on the nlj 250 goto schools list. Further, another argument can be made that not everyone wants biglaw, but one has to agree that biglaw is one of the most (if not the most) sought after jobs, and these biglaw firms are the most selective. Therefore, it can be indicative that if biglaw firms do not hire IUB grads, then smaller firms outside of the mdwest are even more unlikely to hire IUB grads because these firms higher a lot less grads, and they seek students from either more prestigious schools or schools located in the geographic region.
I certainly think that if one places in the top 10 percent and networks correctly, he/she can get back to the east, but its going to be tough to get back if one is not in the top 10 percent. Am I wrong?

[LeDique]

Are you from the east coast? Do you have existing connections? Can you make them before the fall?

[Sandro]

alright but median at WUSTL/Illinois you are exactly drowning in big law offers. Is a median IUb grad at that much of a disadvantage than a WUSTL/Illinois grad considering the IUb grad has a full ride ?

[danquayle]

alright but median at WUSTL/Illinois you are exactly drowning in big law offers. Is a median IUb grad at that much of a disadvantage than a WUSTL/Illinois grad considering the IUb grad has a full ride ?

No. Indiana is the epitome of a neutral degree. It'll be respected everywhere, but it won't be a wow factor anywhere. Cardozo clearly is going to place better in New York, but it's name recognition will evaporate quickly. Indiana is almost the opposite in that it doesn't own any particular market, but it'll be a known commodity nationwide. I'm not saying it has national placement like a T-14 has or anything close, but it does have national presence.

[stlisforlovers]

alright but median at WUSTL/Illinois you are exactly drowning in big law offers. Is a median IUb grad at that much of a disadvantage than a WUSTL/Illinois grad considering the IUb grad has a full ride ?

Jesus +1
I think most people are considering IU mostly because of the enormous scholarships in conjunction with its reputation. All things equal most people would pick U of I or WUSTL, but with the scholarships IU is handing out, all things are not equal. All of those schools are going to require being in about the top 1/3 to have a shot at biglaw, so why not minimize risk and take on the least amount of debt.
That being said I can't imagine IU placing well at all in NY.

[seriously????]

Are you from the east coast? Do you have existing connections? Can you make them before the fall?

yes I am from the east coast. i have a few connections, and I think it will be pretty hard to establish much more connections, especially considering none of us 0L's know much about the law, so by the time we realize what we might enjoy, we are already a year or two or more in school.

[seriously????]

alright but median at WUSTL/Illinois you are exactly drowning in big law offers. Is a median IUb grad at that much of a disadvantage than a WUSTL/Illinois grad considering the IUb grad has a full ride ?

I agree. WUSTL graduates at median only have a slight advantage outside of the midwest market. Their placement outside the midwest is bigger and has always been. And I am sorry, but if you mention IUB and WUSTL to a lawyer outside of the midwest a majority are going to know little about IUB, but a majority will know that WUSTL is a good school. This may not even have anything to do with the amount of lawyers necessarily, but IUB is known as a state school with a history of good basketball schools, and Wash U is known as a private academically prestigious midwestern school.

Pretty much though, if you are median, and quite possibly not even top 10% and you are from outside the midwest, your situation is pretty screwed in most situations at WUSTL and IUB. The only difference I think is that WUSTL non top 10 percent kids will compete with local T2 kids for jobs who have already been establishing themselves in the area for three years, while a non-10% kid at IUB will compete with t4 and t3 kids from the local area as well. Employers are going to wonder why the hell you went to IUB if you are looking for a job in a secondary market outside the midwest. Sure, to say that it is a respected school, its students have good metrics, and you went there with a substantial scholarship are all good reasons. But when you are interviewing, you can't exactly say that you volunteered in such a such program in this market, or participated in an extra curricular activity in this market and know so many lawyers in this market, and that does not look favorable.

Being a lawyer, is somewhat of being a politician. Politicians represent the people of their hometowns, and they get elected because they are seen as one of the people, and one who can understand their concerns and fight to solve their problems. The same thing can be applied to a lawyer/client relationship. Which is why I understand why an employer in Indy is not going to hire an east coaster, because a client is going to think who the hell is this liberal democrat type representing me?

I am just saying, it is pretty much kids that are from the midwest who are speaking of IUB as having a national reputation, which they still could very well have. But I think people from outside the midwest should be asking attorneys what is their impression or knowledge about any schools one is considering.

I do believe IUB is on the right track attempting to stretch its geographic boundaries, and if it continues to give out massive schollies in the next decade it will increase its student base from outside the midwest, and in return there will be more and more students branching outside the midwest, and eventually it may have a more national reputation. But for all non midwestern kids, you really need to make sure that you are not guinea pigs in this experiment. Will it do one any good if IUb actually becomes a school like WUSTL in fifty years?