Indiana University - Bloomington students taking questions Forum

[RedItalus10]

I recently got accepted with $120,000 scholly. was super excited, but I want to work in LA right after law school. What are the job prospects in LA coming out of IU-BMington?

[kings84_wr]

I recently got accepted with $120,000 scholly. was super excited, but I want to work in LA right after law school. What are the job prospects in LA coming out of IU-BMington?

This will really depend on what type of law you want to go into. I'll go ahead and answer it for different career paths to give you more of an idea. For what its worth at least 3 of the 7 or 8 CA students from last year transferred out.

Big law? I dont think its really possible right now. there were no CA main office firms at oci (non IP, IP also is a really different story), though there may be some firms with offices in CA at oci such as Jones day, arnold & Porter. Now if you have a distinct connection with a certain firm that would be more of an option. But the reality is a mass mail before OCI would be pretty tough. A lot of firms in LA just have no idea about anything related to IU, some firms just simply won't hire IU Grads such as Irell or Quinn (I actually had a hiring partner at Quinn tell me that, my screening interview lasted about 3 minutes). A lot of attorney's in CA are very oblivoius to IU. On a callback a guy from Mcgeorge or some similar school asked me what "tier" IU was in.

to be clear the above is about Market paying Major big firms. Smaller firms are tougher to gage. Hiring is pretty rough in CA in general. I know a lot of 3ls at UCLA who have no job. Things

Government: the main problem with gov is that CA is broke. DA hiring is down and so is a lot of the other government agencies. Clerkships in CA are limited to Fed districts. 9th cir., N.D. and C.D. are just about impossible to get clerkships for from IU. S.D. and E.D. have weirder hiring practices but it could be more possible.

I know that sounds pretty depressing, I really liked IU, and was disappointed at the lack of exposure/knowledge of Indiana by CA attorneys.

[Bankhead]

reditalus, what do your other options look like?

[ryanshep]

How are job prospects coming out of IUB in general?

Gov jobs available?

Midlaw?

Are people getting jobs?

Gracias

[justadude55]

I got the 120k too. Everyone at IU has been really nice, and I'm going to be visiting soon. I have also gotten 1/2 scholarships in the neighborhood of 60k ti several schools in the early 20s, but don't believe they're worth the 60k difference.

My philosophy is I love this country, would die for it and can be happy as long as I am anywhere on America soil.....

....with a lot of money.

Do I have a decent shot at a 6-figure starting salary if I'm pretty bright and willing to work really hard coming from IU? I'd work anywhere. I just wanna be able to have a good family, and a good life.

[LogosEther]

Do I have a decent shot at a 6-figure starting salary if I'm pretty bright and willing to work really hard coming from IU? I'd work anywhere. I just wanna be able to have a good family, and a good life.

Depending on who you speak to, you'll hear people tell you anywhere from top 10% to top 30% gets you biglaw. At least that's what I've heard as a 1L. But the real key to your question is to explicitly acknowledge the risk of law school, regardless of where you go, and accept it.

So the answer to this is really more in your court than anyone else's. GPA/LSAT are just predictors. Sometimes non-scholarship students do great, and sometimes hard-working scholarship students do terribly. Your career success does depend in part on your specific school, but if geography isn't an issue, then at almost every school, including IU, it really comes down to your grades.

Note that this is for biglaw (and "midlaw", too), since you asked about 6 figures, and not necessarily for local or smaller firms. And note that this is a 1L opinion, so it means absolutely nothing whatsoever.

[thmgoodw]

Big law? I dont think its really possible right now.

That's a real shame. When we were there Latham recruited on campus (do they still?), and we had 1 person go to Latham-LA and one to Latham-SF. In today's market, if one really wanted to work in LA, I think going to Loyola would be a better choice than IU unfortunately. Of course, the other way to do it is to work for a couple years at Chicago Biglaw and then either transfer to a LA office or just lateral to another firm in LA.

[kings84_wr]

Big law? I dont think its really possible right now.

That's a real shame. When we were there Latham recruited on campus (do they still?), and we had 1 person go to Latham-LA and one to Latham-SF. In today's market, if one really wanted to work in LA, I think going to Loyola would be a better choice than IU unfortunately. Of course, the other way to do it is to work for a couple years at Chicago Biglaw and then either transfer to a LA office or just lateral to another firm in LA.

Yeah no Latham this last year. Since I transferred I did interview with Latham's LA office, the attorney seemed impressed by IU, but I did not get a call back haha.

I don't know the logistics of firms interviewing with other offices at IU's OCI. For example lots of NYC firms here, will just send their LA attorney's to interview for NYC firms to cut down costs. I'm not sure if you could interview with Jones day or Arnold Porter and tell them you were interested in the LA ( or for jones day LA/OC/SD/SV/SF they sure have a lot of offices here).

[RedItalus10]

reditalus, what do your other options look like?

These are the schools i applied to in no particular order:

1 UCLA (ED) - Rejected
2 GTown
3 BU
4 BC - (Accepted)
5 Loyola - Accepted ($87,000 scholly)
6 Hastings
7 Davis
8 Cornell
9 Duke
10 USC
11 Notre Dame
12 Berkeley
13 U Chicago
14 IU-Bloomington - Accepted ($120,000 scholly)

Im waiting for most of the schools still, but at this point Im REALLLLLLLY HOPING FOR USC. I was born and raised in LA and I am certain that I want to work/settle down in LA. Im afraid of leaving LA and creating roots with people/jobs that are not in LA. I also fear having trouble coming back to the LA market at a disadvantage to those people who went to local schools. Bottom line is that I want job stability in the LA market. If I can, Id like to minimize debt, but there are certain schools in which debt is not a major concern (e.g. USC, Berkeley, etc)

Any advice?

[Unjust Enrichment]

As far as profs go, i'd say that a lot were liberal: Shreve, Krishnan, Williams etc. But there were also the more libertarian or conservative profs, Heidt, and we talked about possibly Hoffman. And some I really have no idea, like Steele.

So really from that perspective i think it was pretty balanced, but still what is conservative for a law student or law professor is not conservative for the general public.

Gjerdingen is another one that I'd be pretty quick to label as probably conservative.

Anyway, as a fairly conservative person myself, I haven't encountered much intolerance from the other side save for a couple of students here and there. But of course you'll find that anywhere, so I think that politically the environment is really good regardless of where you stand. Everyone is pretty cool with civil disagreement with regard to politics.

[LogosEther]

If I was you, I wouldn't try to think about scenarios or figure out an answer right now. I know it's tempting and I know that you're looking forward to knowing where you'll be going, but when you start law school, your life will be 100% law. Right now, you don't have enough information to make any decision. So I would have some fun and come back to it once I get more decisions!

Jus' sayin' though, I would pretty much throw out BU, BC, Cornell, GTown, ND, Duke unless you get something similar to the IU scholly. The rest (Hastings, Davis, Chicago) are appealing if you get some sort of $ (for Cal, I personally would take Chicago sticker). Then Berkeley and USC would possibly be sticker-worthy. Depending on what happens I would consider IU just because it'd be so cheap. Getting LA jobs afterward will be an uphill battle, but with time maybe it could be done, and having no debt would be great. Good luck on USC, I lived near there for a little while, it seems like a cool school.

[superflush]

Im waiting for most of the schools still, but at this point Im REALLLLLLLY HOPING FOR USC. I was born and raised in LA and I am certain that I want to work/settle down in LA. Im afraid of leaving LA and creating roots with people/jobs that are not in LA. I also fear having trouble coming back to the LA market at a disadvantage to those people who went to local schools. Bottom line is that I want job stability in the LA market. If I can, Id like to minimize debt, but there are certain schools in which debt is not a major concern (e.g. USC, Berkeley, etc)

Any advice?

Keep talking to Kings. There probably aren't that many people who would have a better handle on what the current job situation would be for someone going to IU and wanting to work in LA.

[kings84_wr]

reditalus, what do your other options look like?

These are the schools i applied to in no particular order:

1 UCLA (ED) - Rejected
2 GTown
3 BU
4 BC - (Accepted)
5 Loyola - Accepted ($87,000 scholly)
6 Hastings
7 Davis
8 Cornell
9 Duke
10 USC
11 Notre Dame
12 Berkeley
13 U Chicago
14 IU-Bloomington - Accepted ($120,000 scholly)

Im waiting for most of the schools still, but at this point Im REALLLLLLLY HOPING FOR USC. I was born and raised in LA and I am certain that I want to work/settle down in LA. Im afraid of leaving LA and creating roots with people/jobs that are not in LA. I also fear having trouble coming back to the LA market at a disadvantage to those people who went to local schools. Bottom line is that I want job stability in the LA market. If I can, Id like to minimize debt, but there are certain schools in which debt is not a major concern (e.g. USC, Berkeley, etc)

Any advice?

First I would call Loyola and ask if they'll match IU. Loyola with a full ride or close to it would be solid for LA. If you are set on LA which it seems you are, then I think Loyola is a better option then IU.

I think USC would be a solid fit for you, hopefully you get in. UCLA and USC really are not that different when it comes to placement.

Hastings and Davis are tricky. there were probably 5 or 6 transfers from davis and Hasting to UCLA. I don't think either really has great placement in LA right now, however LA firms will know the schools better and there will be come placement. Now if you are fine staying in nor cal then these are very good options. However a substantial scholly at Loyola may be better for LA then either really.

I don't think BU and BC will place any better in LA then IU. I know there are transfers from BU and BC at UCLA.

GULC/Cornell/Duke: I have not heard tons about lower t-14 placement in LA, i know Bay area was bad, but i would think you would need 1/3 to median grades to have a shot at LA.

Chicago is solid obviously, Im sorta regretting I did not ED there last year for transfer apps.

Berkeley also would be a good option.

Notre dame I don't think would place better then IU, and if you got a full ride at IU, i doubt it would be financially better at ND.

[mohuohu]

Hey guys,

I've been lurking on this thread for a long time, and I've really appreciated be able to learn about the school through your conversation. So thanks.

I've got a specific question that doesn't seem to have been addressed yet; hopefully someone can help. I've been accepted with $120k, and I'm certain I want to accept that offer rather than go to a higher ranked school at full price. It seems like IU:B would be a great fit for me, and it seems like it's a great school. But there's a wrinkle:

I'm a finalist for a Fulbright English Teaching scholarship, which would pay my way to live and work in Europe for a year after undergrad. Assuming I'm awarded the Fulbright, I'd like to defer my admission and go to Europe comfortable with the knowledge that I'm guaranteed to attend a good school at a good price upon my return. BUT in conversations with a number of people in the admissions office, it's clear that IU:B will defer my acceptance but "the admissions office cannot guarantee that your scholarship offer will be deferred."

This seems like a dealbreaker. If they can't promise my (almost) full-ride, I may as well defer admission to BU or GW and just go to one of those. Or am I overreacting? Is the lack of a "guarantee" just a formality? My credentials will obviously be improving while I'm deferring, so would it be overly panicky of me to fear losing that wonderful scholarship?

Of course, I could also decline the Fulbright and attend school right away. That seems like a shame, but if it means getting $120k then it might be worth it.

Anyway, if it's not obvious, I'm confused and would greatly appreciate any advice you could offer.

[Bankhead]

^ Just reapply next year. Your LSAT and GPA aren't going anywhere. In fact, your Fulbright will make you a stronger law school applicant. Good luck with the Fulbright, that sounds fantastic.

[RMstratosphere]

Spoon, you should be a private investigator, dude. I always thought that'd be fun, for real.

As for the gym questions:

I think the gyms are pretty good. The equipment is not the newest cutting edge stuff, but it's not old or run down by any means.And there is plenty of it. At peak time, the gyms can get crowded but not really enough to disrupt your workout and I've seen way worse. I've never seen anyone wait for cardio machines, at least.

There are two main gyms on campus, the HPER and the SRSC. They're both pretty centrally-located.

The HPER is more old school, and most grad students I know go there. It has a lot of bball courts (10, I believe...). It has around 10 racquetball courts. Then it has a bunch of alternative gyms around the building where clubs like Tae Kwon Do and Dance hold practices. There are a bunch of outdoor tennis courts, too. You can rent your own locker for $$ or you can check out a locker every day for free. Towel service is available for a pretty low annual or semi-annual charge.

The SRSC is "nicer", whatever that means. It's a bit more undergraddy and fratty, but hey, that's alright. It also has bball courts and racquetball courts. In addition, the SRSC has a really nice pool. Like the HPER, it has locker rental, locker check-out, and towel service. They have a bunch of classes like spinning, boot camp, etc., which all cost extra money but they're not terribly expensive (spinning is like $3 per session if you buy a pack of 7).

I like how you can check out a bunch of stuff (bballs, tennis/racquetball racquets and balls, etc.) and use those facilities for free. Some schools don't have racquet checkouts and stuff like that. My main beef with the rec facilities is their hours. On weekdays they close at 11:30 (I think), which isn't bad, but I sometimes I like doing late night stuff.

This post very accurately characterizes the fitness options on campus and I thought it should be repeated. While I have no experience with off-campus athletic/recreational facilities, I have had only positive experiences with SRSC and HPER.

[mohuohu]

^ Just reapply next year. Your LSAT and GPA aren't going anywhere. In fact, your Fulbright will make you a stronger law school applicant. Good luck with the Fulbright, that sounds fantastic.

I've considered this...but I hate the thought of re-experiencing the immense hassle and expense of applying to law school. It took a full year to put my letters, essays, transcripts, etc together last time. Taking care of all that nonsense from Europe would be miserable. And application fees are not to be scoffed at. Applying to enough schools again to make me feel comfortable of my chances of being accepted somewhere would be a pricey endeavor. The risk of not re-winning the IU:B scholarship means I'd have to apply to at least a few other schools.

I'd really like to have the whole law school thing settled before I go abroad.

[LogosEther]

^ Just reapply next year. Your LSAT and GPA aren't going anywhere. In fact, your Fulbright will make you a stronger law school applicant. Good luck with the Fulbright, that sounds fantastic.

I've considered this...but I hate the thought of re-experiencing the immense hassle and expense of applying to law school. It took a full year to put my letters, essays, transcripts, etc together last time. Taking care of all that nonsense from Europe would be miserable. And application fees are not to be scoffed at. Applying to enough schools again to make me feel comfortable of my chances of being accepted somewhere would be a pricey endeavor. The risk of not re-winning the IU:B scholarship means I'd have to apply to at least a few other schools.

I'd really like to have the whole law school thing settled before I go abroad.

I would hate to have to go through it again, too.

At the same time, I took two years between UG and law school and I'm SO glad I did. Honestly, I enjoy school much more, I'm 100% sure that I'm doing better in classes than if I had went straight here, etc. Going to law school is the beginning of your marriage to your career, but unlike real marriage, you can take a year to cheat on law school. At least that's one way to put it... And it sounds like you have an awesome opportunity here.

[RedItalus10]

reditalus, what do your other options look like?

These are the schools i applied to in no particular order:

1 UCLA (ED) - Rejected
2 GTown
3 BU
4 BC - (Accepted)
5 Loyola - Accepted ($87,000 scholly)
6 Hastings
7 Davis
8 Cornell
9 Duke
10 USC
11 Notre Dame
12 Berkeley
13 U Chicago
14 IU-Bloomington - Accepted ($120,000 scholly)

Im waiting for most of the schools still, but at this point Im REALLLLLLLY HOPING FOR USC. I was born and raised in LA and I am certain that I want to work/settle down in LA. Im afraid of leaving LA and creating roots with people/jobs that are not in LA. I also fear having trouble coming back to the LA market at a disadvantage to those people who went to local schools. Bottom line is that I want job stability in the LA market. If I can, Id like to minimize debt, but there are certain schools in which debt is not a major concern (e.g. USC, Berkeley, etc)

Any advice?

First I would call Loyola and ask if they'll match IU. Loyola with a full ride or close to it would be solid for LA. If you are set on LA which it seems you are, then I think Loyola is a better option then IU.

I think USC would be a solid fit for you, hopefully you get in. UCLA and USC really are not that different when it comes to placement.

Hastings and Davis are tricky. there were probably 5 or 6 transfers from davis and Hasting to UCLA. I don't think either really has great placement in LA right now, however LA firms will know the schools better and there will be come placement. Now if you are fine staying in nor cal then these are very good options. However a substantial scholly at Loyola may be better for LA then either really.

I don't think BU and BC will place any better in LA then IU. I know there are transfers from BU and BC at UCLA.

GULC/Cornell/Duke: I have not heard tons about lower t-14 placement in LA, i know Bay area was bad, but i would think you would need 1/3 to median grades to have a shot at LA.

Chicago is solid obviously, Im sorta regretting I did not ED there last year for transfer apps.

Berkeley also would be a good option.

Notre dame I don't think would place better then IU, and if you got a full ride at IU, i doubt it would be financially better at ND.

THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR SUCH A THOROUGH ASSESSMENT OF MY SITUATION!

[fogcue2]

What cities dos IU place in? What opportunities could be expected if in top 10%?, Top 25%?, Top 50%?, Top 75%?

[agentcom]

As many of you probably know, I basically only post on here to mark the place where I last stopped reading.

Anyway, I noticed that this question didn't get answered

This might of been asked already but how difficult it is to get into JD/MBA at IU-B after your first year?

From what I have heard it is far easier to do this than try to go the other way. I don't know if any law students actually get rejected from the joint program once they're in the law school. I would recommend talking to Prof. Mark Need. He is kind of a point man for all things JD/MBA related.

[LogosEther]

What cities dos IU place in? What opportunities could be expected if in top 10%?, Top 25%?, Top 50%?, Top 75%?

This is my impression as a 1L and it's probably similar to peer schools:

Top 10% should be trying for big/mid firms, if they want it.
Top 25% can take a shot at biglaw... I hear that in the good old days they'd be successful, but today I'm not sure, possibly not.
Top 50% and top 75% are pretty similar, I imagine. You shoot for internships in the fields you're interested in and you network them. You network other people you know. You apply to smaller firms or maybe even decent-sized firms. Maybe they get PI/government, I couldn't say.

As for location, obviously IU does well in Indiana. There are a lot of students hailing from Chicago and the school is at least known up there. Then, obviously, the school is well-known in surrounding areas like downstate Illinois/Ohio/Michigan/Wisconsin/Kentucky.

I've actually been surprised with the DC representation that I hear about. It's mostly anecdotal, but I know a few people who got DC biglaw.

If other students think I'm off here, feel free to chime in, you're probably right. This is just what I've heard and what the school statistics say (although I never give those much weight from any school, they're just not trustworthy IMO).

[Unjust Enrichment]

Bummer about Professor Baude's passing.

I didn't get to take him last year, but the mere fact that Professor Bethel seemed to absolutely idolize him is enough for me to know that we lost a great one.

[kings84_wr]

Bummer about Professor Baude's passing.

I didn't get to take him last year, but the mere fact that Professor Bethel seemed to absolutely idolize him is enough for me to know that we lost a great one.

Very sad. I did not get to take him either but it Seemed like the guy really loved teaching.

[tropicalpeach]

I've been reading this thread for a while, hoping I would get my acceptance packet! Well, I just received it yesterday and am planning to drive there (with my s/o, who was also accepted) from Atlanta next week. We are there next wednesday night and all-day Thursday.
Here are the options for classes to visit:
Contracts, M-Th, 8:45 a.m.
Civil Procedure, W-F, 12:55 p.m.
Contracts, T-F, 1:15 p.m.
Torts, M-Th, 3:25 p.m.

Can anyone recommend which class? I certainly don't have a preference, but was hoping to see one of the professors you guys are always saying great things about.

THANKS SO MUCH!

ps- Coming from Atlanta, we aren't exactly used to snow. I'm assuming snow boots, etc, are in order?