Law Grads: Did you regret turning down an Ivy? Forum

[silverdoe91]

I guess I keep fixating on the whole loan situation because that is the one thing every law graduate complains about, no matter what school they went to, and I feel like if I assess the potential financial situations I might have in the future it will allow me to make a better decision now.

The difference is that most of the graduates from top schools are complaining about the loans that they are currently paying off. The lower in the rankings you go, the more likely you are to find people who are complaining because they literally cannot get hired as an attorney in order to pay off their loans in the first place.

But I would not have that problem because I would not have any loans to pay off.

If I can't get a job I can always do temp work which might eventually lead to a full time job. I mean I've seen people from lower ranked schools look for a job for months but then eventually they get one. Sure it might not make the 10 month cut off mark they use to report employment statistics but eventually they'll get a job. Once you have a job people judge you mostly based on the experience you have rather than the school you went to, or at least that's what I've heard.

[dclawyerhere]

This question is primarily for Law Graduates who turned down an offer from an Ivy League in exchange for more money at a lower ranked school. Did any of you end up regretting your decision? Why or why not?

I think the answer depends on whether you're talking about an "Ivy" (i.e., Cornell, Penn), an Ivy (i.e., Columbia), or an Ivy (i.e., Yale, Harvard).

Lmao.

To op: Fwiw, I attended a T1 and turned down Duke after my 1L year to save money. And I've never regretted that decision. Of course, I landed the job and clerkship I wanted, so it's easy to say that now. Had that not happened, I probably would have regretted it a lot. So my only point is that the only thing you're really going to have buyer's remorse over is spending a lot of time and money on something that didn't pay off while knowing that you could have done something else and it probably would have turned out differently. I don't know how much the debt difference will be, but if you can attend Cornell at a reasonable cost, then I think it is a no-brainier. Keep in mind that as a 0L, you really have no idea how you'll perform; you probably won't rank high enough in your class at the lower-ranked school to give you comparable job prospects that median at Cornell would have given you. For that reason, you should really be considering attending Cornell -- not because of preftige. which it doesn't sound like you care about, but because it will give you a much better chance at getting a good job (however you define it).

Thank you for your contribution, it really is helpful! Right now I am considering either Cornell at half a ride (still over 100k altogether) or Cardozo for free (unconditional scholarship.) So for the latter, there would not be much buyer's remorse since I would be paying literally nothing to attend school there. There may be a heavy dose of buyer's remorse if I choose Cornell though, because it does not have all the classes I want, that Cardozo does, such as in Entertainment Law and Public Interest Law (Cardozo has more variety in that field) as well as being in debt and later having to pay off loans that I would otherwise not have to pay if I went to Cardozo. I am worried about the job prospects, but since I am not aiming for biglaw I don't think it makes sense to take out over $100k in loans when I can go to law school for free. I'm just wondering, what, if any, other related advantages of going to an "Ivy" like Cornell would I be missing out on that perhaps MIGHT make that $100k debt worth it? Because I don't want to regret it later on.

Also, I've heard before that lower end T14 schools are often not as well-regarded as other Ivies are. Like I've literally heard that at the last firm I worked at (Top 20 BigLaw) they have a corporate culture where they literally make fun of the associates who went to Duke. So if they're nasty like that about Duke, I can't imagine how they would be about Cornell. If going to a bottom tier Ivy will result in that kind of bias, I don't see the point in shelling out $100k and spending the next ten years of my life (or more) paying it off when I can literally go to school for free (and Cardozo happens to have a fairly good reputation with that corporate Law firm I worked at as well as some others in NYC if that's the route I ever want to take.)

Darn, you really are clueless. Hate to break it to you, but enrolling in "Entertainment Law" is not going to land you a job at Manatt, Loeb or Kinsella. You probably do not know what those are. The same goes for any other practice area, maybe with the limited exception of public interest, for which you will need to demonstrate your commitment through internships and clinics (maybe). Anyway, based on your reasoning above, you are going to need all the help you can get. Therefore, I'd advise you to enroll at Cornell immediately.

[JohnDoe007]

Even though this has to be a troll because it's freaking July and there's no way you haven't deposited somewhere already, please go to Cornell and help out my curve. Thanks.

[pancakes3]

Hah, "I turned down Duke after my 1L year"

[RamTitan]

This question is primarily for Law Graduates who turned down an offer from an Ivy League in exchange for more money at a lower ranked school. Did any of you end up regretting your decision? Why or why not?

I think the answer depends on whether you're talking about an "Ivy" (i.e., Cornell, Penn), an Ivy (i.e., Columbia), or an Ivy (i.e., Yale, Harvard).

Jeez, is Penn's prestige that low? I figured for law school it would be in the same league as Columbia.

[Dcc617]

This question is primarily for Law Graduates who turned down an offer from an Ivy League in exchange for more money at a lower ranked school. Did any of you end up regretting your decision? Why or why not?

I think the answer depends on whether you're talking about an "Ivy" (i.e., Cornell, Penn), an Ivy (i.e., Columbia), or an Ivy (i.e., Yale, Harvard).

Jeez, is Penn's prestige that low? I figured for law school it would be in the same league as Columbia.

I think that was a joke (sorry if you were also joking).

[RamTitan]

This question is primarily for Law Graduates who turned down an offer from an Ivy League in exchange for more money at a lower ranked school. Did any of you end up regretting your decision? Why or why not?

I think the answer depends on whether you're talking about an "Ivy" (i.e., Cornell, Penn), an Ivy (i.e., Columbia), or an Ivy (i.e., Yale, Harvard).

Jeez, is Penn's prestige that low? I figured for law school it would be in the same league as Columbia.

I think that was a joke (sorry if you were also joking).

I'm going to pretend I was joking

[silverdoe91]

This question is primarily for Law Graduates who turned down an offer from an Ivy League in exchange for more money at a lower ranked school. Did any of you end up regretting your decision? Why or why not?

I think the answer depends on whether you're talking about an "Ivy" (i.e., Cornell, Penn), an Ivy (i.e., Columbia), or an Ivy (i.e., Yale, Harvard).

Lmao.

To op: Fwiw, I attended a T1 and turned down Duke after my 1L year to save money. And I've never regretted that decision. Of course, I landed the job and clerkship I wanted, so it's easy to say that now. Had that not happened, I probably would have regretted it a lot. So my only point is that the only thing you're really going to have buyer's remorse over is spending a lot of time and money on something that didn't pay off while knowing that you could have done something else and it probably would have turned out differently. I don't know how much the debt difference will be, but if you can attend Cornell at a reasonable cost, then I think it is a no-brainier. Keep in mind that as a 0L, you really have no idea how you'll perform; you probably won't rank high enough in your class at the lower-ranked school to give you comparable job prospects that median at Cornell would have given you. For that reason, you should really be considering attending Cornell -- not because of preftige. which it doesn't sound like you care about, but because it will give you a much better chance at getting a good job (however you define it).

Thank you for your contribution, it really is helpful! Right now I am considering either Cornell at half a ride (still over 100k altogether) or Cardozo for free (unconditional scholarship.) So for the latter, there would not be much buyer's remorse since I would be paying literally nothing to attend school there. There may be a heavy dose of buyer's remorse if I choose Cornell though, because it does not have all the classes I want, that Cardozo does, such as in Entertainment Law and Public Interest Law (Cardozo has more variety in that field) as well as being in debt and later having to pay off loans that I would otherwise not have to pay if I went to Cardozo. I am worried about the job prospects, but since I am not aiming for biglaw I don't think it makes sense to take out over $100k in loans when I can go to law school for free. I'm just wondering, what, if any, other related advantages of going to an "Ivy" like Cornell would I be missing out on that perhaps MIGHT make that $100k debt worth it? Because I don't want to regret it later on.

Also, I've heard before that lower end T14 schools are often not as well-regarded as other Ivies are. Like I've literally heard that at the last firm I worked at (Top 20 BigLaw) they have a corporate culture where they literally make fun of the associates who went to Duke. So if they're nasty like that about Duke, I can't imagine how they would be about Cornell. If going to a bottom tier Ivy will result in that kind of bias, I don't see the point in shelling out $100k and spending the next ten years of my life (or more) paying it off when I can literally go to school for free (and Cardozo happens to have a fairly good reputation with that corporate Law firm I worked at as well as some others in NYC if that's the route I ever want to take.)

Darn, you really are clueless. Hate to break it to you, but enrolling in "Entertainment Law" is not going to land you a job at Manatt, Loeb or Kinsella. You probably do not know what those are. The same goes for any other practice area, maybe with the limited exception of public interest, for which you will need to demonstrate your commitment through internships and clinics (maybe). Anyway, based on your reasoning above, you are going to need all the help you can get. Therefore, I'd advise you to enroll at Cornell immediately.

I thought the quality of instruction was not much different across all law schools? I've seen people on this board say you can learn literally everything you need for law school on Wikipedia. As I understand it, many professors teach at multiple schools of differing ranks, so you may have a professor at Cardozo who also teaches or has taught at NYU. Also, most professors in general went to the top schools, simply because often times those are the only ones who can become professors.

[rpupkin]

This question is primarily for Law Graduates who turned down an offer from an Ivy League in exchange for more money at a lower ranked school. Did any of you end up regretting your decision? Why or why not?

I think the answer depends on whether you're talking about an "Ivy" (i.e., Cornell, Penn), an Ivy (i.e., Columbia), or an Ivy (i.e., Yale, Harvard).

Jeez, is Penn's prestige that low? I figured for law school it would be in the same league as Columbia.

I think that was a joke (sorry if you were also joking).

It's a "joke" only in the sense that any sentence that involves Penn is a joke.

No, Penn is not in the same "league" as Columbia. I mean, it's certainly true that both Penn and Columbia are in the "Ivy League." But that's like saying that Arizona State is in the same "league" as Stanford because both schools are in the Pac 12.

tl;dr: Penn...just lol.

[jbagelboy]

This question is primarily for Law Graduates who turned down an offer from an Ivy League in exchange for more money at a lower ranked school. Did any of you end up regretting your decision? Why or why not?

I think the answer depends on whether you're talking about an "Ivy" (i.e., Cornell, Penn), an Ivy (i.e., Columbia), or an Ivy (i.e., Yale, Harvard).

Jeez, is Penn's prestige that low? I figured for law school it would be in the same league as Columbia.

I think that was a joke (sorry if you were also joking).

It's a "joke" only in the sense that any sentence that involves Penn is a joke.

No, Penn is not in the same "league" as Columbia. I mean, it's certainly true that both Penn and Columbia are in the "Ivy League." But that's like saying that Arizona State is in the same "league" as Stanford because both schools are in the Pac 12.

tl;dr: Penn...just lol.

Actually the Penn Lions are in the big ten, whereas the Columbia lions are in the Ivy League. Its a common misconception about Penn

[RamTitan]

This question is primarily for Law Graduates who turned down an offer from an Ivy League in exchange for more money at a lower ranked school. Did any of you end up regretting your decision? Why or why not?

I think the answer depends on whether you're talking about an "Ivy" (i.e., Cornell, Penn), an Ivy (i.e., Columbia), or an Ivy (i.e., Yale, Harvard).

Jeez, is Penn's prestige that low? I figured for law school it would be in the same league as Columbia.

I think that was a joke (sorry if you were also joking).

It's a "joke" only in the sense that any sentence that involves Penn is a joke.

No, Penn is not in the same "league" as Columbia. I mean, it's certainly true that both Penn and Columbia are in the "Ivy League." But that's like saying that Arizona State is in the same "league" as Stanford because both schools are in the Pac 12.

tl;dr: Penn...just lol.

In terms of law schools though, Penn is what, #7, and Columbia is tied for #4? I could see somebody saying Columbia is in a different league than Cornell because of how far apart they are in the t14, but Penn is practically ranked next to Columbia.

[rpupkin]

It's a "joke" only in the sense that any sentence that involves Penn is a joke.

No, Penn is not in the same "league" as Columbia. I mean, it's certainly true that both Penn and Columbia are in the "Ivy League." But that's like saying that Arizona State is in the same "league" as Stanford because both schools are in the Pac 12.

tl;dr: Penn...just lol.

In terms of law schools though, Penn is what, #7, and Columbia is tied for #4? I could see somebody saying Columbia is in a different league than Cornell because of how far apart they are in the t14, but Penn is practically ranked next to Columbia.

LJL@Penn's smoke-and-mirrors ranking. Penn's situation is very much like that of law firm Weil Gotshal. Just three years ago, Weil was ranked 7th in the prestigious Vault ranking. Its associates felt great about being at a V10 firm. Do you know where Weil Gotshal is ranked now within the V10? It's a trick question, because Weil has fallen out of the V10 entirely! Now its associates are stuck at a V15. The same thing is about to happen to Penn.

[RamTitan]

It's a "joke" only in the sense that any sentence that involves Penn is a joke.

No, Penn is not in the same "league" as Columbia. I mean, it's certainly true that both Penn and Columbia are in the "Ivy League." But that's like saying that Arizona State is in the same "league" as Stanford because both schools are in the Pac 12.

tl;dr: Penn...just lol.

In terms of law schools though, Penn is what, #7, and Columbia is tied for #4? I could see somebody saying Columbia is in a different league than Cornell because of how far apart they are in the t14, but Penn is practically ranked next to Columbia.

LJL@Penn's smoke-and-mirrors ranking. Penn's situation is very much like that of law firm Weil Gotshal. Just three years ago, Weil was ranked 7th in the prestigious Vault ranking. Its associates felt great about being at a V10 firm. Do you know where Weil Gotshal is ranked now within the V10? It's a trick question, because Weil has fallen out of the V10 entirely! Now its associates are stuck at a V15. The same thing is about to happen to Penn.

Why do you say that? What's your source of information? Not trying to be combative, but am super curious as Penn is my #1 choice.

[Dcc617]

It's a "joke" only in the sense that any sentence that involves Penn is a joke.

No, Penn is not in the same "league" as Columbia. I mean, it's certainly true that both Penn and Columbia are in the "Ivy League." But that's like saying that Arizona State is in the same "league" as Stanford because both schools are in the Pac 12.

tl;dr: Penn...just lol.

In terms of law schools though, Penn is what, #7, and Columbia is tied for #4? I could see somebody saying Columbia is in a different league than Cornell because of how far apart they are in the t14, but Penn is practically ranked next to Columbia.

LJL@Penn's smoke-and-mirrors ranking. Penn's situation is very much like that of law firm Weil Gotshal. Just three years ago, Weil was ranked 7th in the prestigious Vault ranking. Its associates felt great about being at a V10 firm. Do you know where Weil Gotshal is ranked now within the V10? It's a trick question, because Weil has fallen out of the V10 entirely! Now its associates are stuck at a V15. The same thing is about to happen to Penn.

Why do you say that? What's your source of information? Not trying to be combative, but am super curious as Penn is my #1 choice.

So, unless I'm completely misreading this whole thing, Mr rpupkin is still trolling you, and you're still playing the part of the wide eyed prospective law student to a t. Penn is a great school.

ETA Penn does have Donald Trump and Jerry Sandusky though, so there's that.

[rpupkin]

Why do you say that? What's your source of information? Not trying to be combative, but am super curious as Penn is my #1 choice.

Penn is great at placing folks into NYC big law. As is Cornell. If your goal is to work at a big law firm in NYC, go to Penn or Cornell because those schools will help you reach your goal. Do not go because they are in the "Ivy League" or because of some arbitrary ranking that no one in the real world pays attention to.

[jbagelboy]

It's a "joke" only in the sense that any sentence that involves Penn is a joke.

No, Penn is not in the same "league" as Columbia. I mean, it's certainly true that both Penn and Columbia are in the "Ivy League." But that's like saying that Arizona State is in the same "league" as Stanford because both schools are in the Pac 12.

tl;dr: Penn...just lol.

In terms of law schools though, Penn is what, #7, and Columbia is tied for #4? I could see somebody saying Columbia is in a different league than Cornell because of how far apart they are in the t14, but Penn is practically ranked next to Columbia.

LJL@Penn's smoke-and-mirrors ranking. Penn's situation is very much like that of law firm Weil Gotshal. Just three years ago, Weil was ranked 7th in the prestigious Vault ranking. Its associates felt great about being at a V10 firm. Do you know where Weil Gotshal is ranked now within the V10? It's a trick question, because Weil has fallen out of the V10 entirely! Now its associates are stuck at a V15. The same thing is about to happen to Penn.

Why do you say that? What's your source of information? Not trying to be combative, but am super curious as Penn is my #1 choice.

no one gives a fuck about US NEWS. Comparing schools because one is #3 and one is #4 and one is #6 or whatever reflects the pettiest excesses of scholasticism.

[Winter is Coming]

Rpupkin wins this thread, almost as hard as OP loses.

[cavalier1138]

no one gives a fuck about US NEWS. Comparing schools because one is #3 and one is #4 and one is #6 or whatever reflects the pettiest excesses of scholasticism.

This was the first thing that came to mind.

[RamTitan]

Why do you say that? What's your source of information? Not trying to be combative, but am super curious as Penn is my #1 choice.

Penn is great at placing folks into NYC big law. As is Cornell. If your goal is to work at a big law firm in NYC, go to Penn or Cornell because those schools will help you reach your goal. Do not go because they are in the "Ivy League" or because of some arbitrary ranking that no one in the real world pays attention to.

I think I want to do JAG (obviously not 100% sure), and I've read that prestige is imperative for selection. That's pretty much my operating motive.

[RamTitan]

It's a "joke" only in the sense that any sentence that involves Penn is a joke.

No, Penn is not in the same "league" as Columbia. I mean, it's certainly true that both Penn and Columbia are in the "Ivy League." But that's like saying that Arizona State is in the same "league" as Stanford because both schools are in the Pac 12.

tl;dr: Penn...just lol.

In terms of law schools though, Penn is what, #7, and Columbia is tied for #4? I could see somebody saying Columbia is in a different league than Cornell because of how far apart they are in the t14, but Penn is practically ranked next to Columbia.

LJL@Penn's smoke-and-mirrors ranking. Penn's situation is very much like that of law firm Weil Gotshal. Just three years ago, Weil was ranked 7th in the prestigious Vault ranking. Its associates felt great about being at a V10 firm. Do you know where Weil Gotshal is ranked now within the V10? It's a trick question, because Weil has fallen out of the V10 entirely! Now its associates are stuck at a V15. The same thing is about to happen to Penn.

Why do you say that? What's your source of information? Not trying to be combative, but am super curious as Penn is my #1 choice.

So, unless I'm completely misreading this whole thing, Mr rpupkin is still trolling you, and you're still playing the part of the wide eyed prospective law student to a t. Penn is a great school.

ETA Penn does have Donald Trump and Jerry Sandusky though, so there's that.

Lmao, sounds about right

[rpupkin]

Why do you say that? What's your source of information? Not trying to be combative, but am super curious as Penn is my #1 choice.

Penn is great at placing folks into NYC big law. As is Cornell. If your goal is to work at a big law firm in NYC, go to Penn or Cornell because those schools will help you reach your goal. Do not go because they are in the "Ivy League" or because of some arbitrary ranking that no one in the real world pays attention to.

I think I want to do JAG (obviously not 100% sure), and I've read that prestige is imperative for selection. That's pretty much my operating motive.

I would go to the cheapest T14 you get into. I would be very surprised if JAG distinguished between, say, Penn, Duke, and GULC.

[RamTitan]

Why do you say that? What's your source of information? Not trying to be combative, but am super curious as Penn is my #1 choice.

Penn is great at placing folks into NYC big law. As is Cornell. If your goal is to work at a big law firm in NYC, go to Penn or Cornell because those schools will help you reach your goal. Do not go because they are in the "Ivy League" or because of some arbitrary ranking that no one in the real world pays attention to.

I think I want to do JAG (obviously not 100% sure), and I've read that prestige is imperative for selection. That's pretty much my operating motive.

I would go to the cheapest T14 you get into. I would be very surprised if JAG distinguished between, say, Penn, Duke, and GULC.

That's interesting to know. The Northwestern ED option looks more and more enticing every day...

Edit - are you fucking with me again, or is that a sincere post?

[jbagelboy]

Why do you say that? What's your source of information? Not trying to be combative, but am super curious as Penn is my #1 choice.

Penn is great at placing folks into NYC big law. As is Cornell. If your goal is to work at a big law firm in NYC, go to Penn or Cornell because those schools will help you reach your goal. Do not go because they are in the "Ivy League" or because of some arbitrary ranking that no one in the real world pays attention to.

I think I want to do JAG (obviously not 100% sure), and I've read that prestige is imperative for selection. That's pretty much my operating motive.

I would go to the cheapest T14 you get into. I would be very surprised if JAG distinguished between, say, Penn, Duke, and GULC.

That's interesting to know. The Northwestern ED option looks more and more enticing every day...

Edit - are you fucking with me again, or is that a sincere post?

it's sincere.

just a protip, when people on TLS talk about "prestige" or "rankings" or "brands" or other signaling devices or uses tiers language, they are bullshitting or ignorant. when there's idiosyncratic ragging on a particular school or an undue emphasis placed on the difference between schools 1-2 spots apart in ranking, you know you're being trolled or that the person knows as little or less than you do.

[rpupkin]

Why do you say that? What's your source of information? Not trying to be combative, but am super curious as Penn is my #1 choice.

Penn is great at placing folks into NYC big law. As is Cornell. If your goal is to work at a big law firm in NYC, go to Penn or Cornell because those schools will help you reach your goal. Do not go because they are in the "Ivy League" or because of some arbitrary ranking that no one in the real world pays attention to.

I think I want to do JAG (obviously not 100% sure), and I've read that prestige is imperative for selection. That's pretty much my operating motive.

I would go to the cheapest T14 you get into. I would be very surprised if JAG distinguished between, say, Penn, Duke, and GULC.

That's interesting to know. The Northwestern ED option looks more and more enticing every day...

Edit - are you fucking with me again, or is that a sincere post?

Sincere. For the record, if we're talking about a magazine's ranking system or the magic of the Ivy League, I'm going to be tempted to troll. But once someone is actually talking about a career decision, I'm going to be serious.

[A. Nony Mouse]

I absolutely agree JAG isn't going to care about distinctions between the different T14 schools.