G.W. 1L Ready to take questions Forum

[HyeMart]

gw's lrap doesnt cover DA and policy-based non-profits?

[schooner]

gw's lrap doesnt cover DA and policy-based non-profits?

My take on GW's eligibility rules is that the school's LRAP covers those employers ONLY if they serve the indigent/underrepresented. So, I would guess that policy-based nonprofits (eg, think tanks) are NOT covered. Most federal jobs also seem like they wouldn't be covered, unless you go work for the Legal Services Corporation or something like that. Not sure about DA offices, but probably not.

This eligibilty standard seems very restrictive compared to higher ranked schools' LRAPs, which I understand cover a broader ranger of employers (eg, regular jobs at federal agencies, think tanks, policy counsel on Capitol Hill, etc). Someone correct me if I'm wrong.

Below is what the 2011-12 application (PDF) says:

The following requirements of eligible employment are subject to LRAP Subcommittee interpretation. Special circumstances may be considered.

Qualifying employment must be:
1. Full time, defined as working approximately 30 or more hours per week;

2. Law-related, broadly defined to include work in a position that requires a J.D. degree as a condition of employment; and

3. Public Interest, defined as follows:

a. Non-profit, 501(c)(3) or 501(c)(5) organizations that assist underrepresented, indigent individuals or populations.

b. Non-profit, §501(c)(4) organizations providing services or advocacy in the public interest for underrepresented individuals or populations.

c. For-profit entities providing law-related service in the public interest for individuals and organizations that cannot otherwise afford legal services, or whose interests are not otherwise adequately represented. An employer for whom 50% or more of the hours worked are billed as pro bono, low fee, or funded by court-awarded fees, could satisfy this standard. Such employers could include small public interest law firms that do not engage in traditional corporate or private practice.

d. Government employment in which the recipient's law-related work is primarily on behalf of indigent or under-represented populations.

NOT INCLUDED:
Judicial clerkships, or work on behalf of a political candidate or party or on a political campaign, do not qualify. Unpaid fellowships also do not qualify.

In all cases, it is the applicant’s responsibility to demonstrate that a substantial proportion of the individual applicant's work is "eligible" under this Section. In selecting among competing applications, the LRAP Subcommittee will consider all public interest employment, but will give preference to work benefiting indigent individuals or otherwise under-represented populations

[mi-chan17]

Even if it's cancelled, though of us already in school will be grandfathered in.

While it is likely, it is not guaranteed. Federal aid programs have changed in the middle of the game for many in the past, and there is nothing that would prevent it from happening to students in the future.

I suppose it is true that nothing is guaranteed and, honestly, I would very rarely advocate anyone coming to GW at sticker due to the cost. That being said, I think that the likelihood of our being able to keep IBR even if it is dismantled by Congress is pretty good, primarily because its in all of our MPNs.

Summary: I think chances are good that IBR will be around to help the class of 2014 pay its loans, but nothing is guaranteed and 210k is a lot of money.

P.S. Yeah, our LRAP is really restrictive and somewhat stingy. I wouldn't come to GW relying on the LRAP to help you out.

[schooner]

After skimming through the Got an F - Dropping out thread, I gotta ask: do GWU professors give out Fs?

[mi-chan17]

After skimming through the Got an F - Dropping out thread, I gotta ask: do GWU professors give out Fs?

Getting an F, due to the "encouraged" mean our professors are supposed to hit with their grades, seems to only used in cases of utter ridiculousness or cheating (in which case you'll have even bigger problems securing employment than just your GPA). If you show up and actually know SOMETHING about the law you went over that semester, even if you suck at writing about it, you should get at least a C- (based on anecdotal evidence).

I guess nothing is impossible. Technically, GW Law professors are allowed to give Fs. I highly doubt anyone who doesn't cheat (or do something equally ridiculous) ever has to actually deal with one, though.

[schooner]

After skimming through the Got an F - Dropping out thread, I gotta ask: do GWU professors give out Fs?

Getting an F, due to the "encouraged" mean our professors are supposed to hit with their grades, seems to only used in cases of utter ridiculousness or cheating (in which case you'll have even bigger problems securing employment than just your GPA). If you show up and actually know SOMETHING about the law you went over that semester, even if you suck at writing about it, you should get at least a C- (based on anecdotal evidence).

I guess nothing is impossible. Technically, GW Law professors are allowed to give Fs. I highly doubt anyone who doesn't cheat (or do something equally ridiculous) ever has to actually deal with one, though.

That is helpful to know. (I'm surprised that cheaters aren't just summarily expelled, though.) Utterly ridiculous as in these examples, huh? http://www.snopes.com/college/exam/oneword.asp

[Naked Dude]

IBR is even worse than I thought! So if you're not set on Big Law, and want to become a G man or something, you still have the massive loan payment to take care of. It's hard enough to find a job as it is, man. Looks like it's private sector for me after all.

[schooner]

IBR is even worse than I thought! So if you're not set on Big Law, and want to become a G man or something, you still have the massive loan payment to take care of. It's hard enough to find a job as it is, man. Looks like it's private sector for me after all.

Could you please explain? Why is IBR worse than you thought?

By the way, many thanks to the GW students who patrol this forum and post helpful answers!!

[Naked Dude]

IBR is even worse than I thought! So if you're not set on Big Law, and want to become a G man or something, you still have the massive loan payment to take care of. It's hard enough to find a job as it is, man. Looks like it's private sector for me after all.

Could you please explain? Why is IBR worse than you thought?

By the way, many thanks to the GW students who patrol this forum and post helpful answers!!

That it doesn't cover government work like being an ADA and such. Oh well.

[schooner]

IBR is even worse than I thought! So if you're not set on Big Law, and want to become a G man or something, you still have the massive loan payment to take care of. It's hard enough to find a job as it is, man. Looks like it's private sector for me after all.

Could you please explain? Why is IBR worse than you thought?

By the way, many thanks to the GW students who patrol this forum and post helpful answers!!

That it doesn't cover government work like being an ADA and such. Oh well.

? I thought IBR does cover government work, as well as other types of jobs:

http://www.finaid.org/loans/ibrfaq.phtml

Do I have to work in a public service job to use income-based repayment?

Income-based repayment is available even if you aren't working in a public service job. If you don't work in a public service job, the remaining balance is forgiven after 25 years in repayment (excluding deferment and forbearance periods). If you work in a public service job, the forgiveness occurs after 10 years instead of 25.

[dudders]

probably means that they're stuck with IBR for 25 years, and/or still making the full payments themselves (as opposed to LRAP or 10-year public service forgiveness).

also i e-mailed CDO with a summer employment problem 24 days ago, and just today they responded for the first time asking if I got it resolved ... so GW.

[mi-chan17]

IBR is even worse than I thought! So if you're not set on Big Law, and want to become a G man or something, you still have the massive loan payment to take care of. It's hard enough to find a job as it is, man. Looks like it's private sector for me after all.

That it doesn't cover government work like being an ADA and such. Oh well.

IBR, the government program, does cover government work along the lines of being an ADA/USAO/DOJ etc. And those careers are included in its Public Service Loan Forgiveness program. http://www.ibrinfo.org/faq.vp.html#_Where_can_I

GW's LRAP does not cover those careers, because it only gives money to people working for the government (if it feels like doing so, it's all discretionary) who are working on behalf of indigent populations (eg. public defenders).

also i e-mailed CDO with a summer employment problem 24 days ago, and just today they responded for the first time asking if I got it resolved ... so GW.

*slow claps* Well done, CDO. Gotta keep on top of these things. *shakes head*

[queenlizzie13]

IBR is even worse than I thought! So if you're not set on Big Law, and want to become a G man or something, you still have the massive loan payment to take care of. It's hard enough to find a job as it is, man. Looks like it's private sector for me after all.

That it doesn't cover government work like being an ADA and such. Oh well.

IBR, the government program, does cover government work along the lines of being an ADA/USAO/DOJ etc. And those careers are included in its Public Service Loan Forgiveness program. http://www.ibrinfo.org/faq.vp.html#_Where_can_I

GW's LRAP does not cover those careers, because it only gives money to people working for the government (if it feels like doing so, it's all discretionary) who are working on behalf of indigent populations (eg. public defenders).

Good to know. I would want to work for the DOJ or something along those lines...wondering though if it is more worth it to retake the LSAT try and hit 170+ and then ED to GW next year to try and get the full scholarship at GW instead of paying sticker now...

[schooner]

After skimming through the Got an F - Dropping out thread, I gotta ask: do GWU professors give out Fs?

Getting an F, due to the "encouraged" mean our professors are supposed to hit with their grades, seems to only used in cases of utter ridiculousness or cheating (in which case you'll have even bigger problems securing employment than just your GPA). If you show up and actually know SOMETHING about the law you went over that semester, even if you suck at writing about it, you should get at least a C- (based on anecdotal evidence).

I guess nothing is impossible. Technically, GW Law professors are allowed to give Fs. I highly doubt anyone who doesn't cheat (or do something equally ridiculous) ever has to actually deal with one, though.

At GW can you look up the grades that a particular professor has given out in the past? In that F grade thread, somebody mentioned going to the library to do that before registering for classes. I'm surprised that this info would be in the public record at any school.

[mi-chan17]

Good to know. I would want to work for the DOJ or something along those lines...wondering though if it is more worth it to retake the LSAT try and hit 170+ and then ED to GW next year to try and get the full scholarship at GW instead of paying sticker now...

I generally advocate getting as much free money as you can; so if you have reason to believe that waiting a year will put you over that 170 mark, it might be worth it to wait and reduce your debt by $150k.

If you want to work DOJ (or any other BigGov kind of job), know that they don't really hire new law school graduate except through the AG Honors Program. Most people have to lateral in from somewhere else - often from prosecutor/defense gigs or the private sector. Type of job doesn't matter for IBR, but it does matter for PSLF, so I would keep that in mind. (I am another of the DOJ-wannabes and I'm interning with one of their components this summer, so I'm happy to answer any questions you might along that vein, too. )

At GW can you look up the grades that a particular professor has given out in the past? In that F grade thread, somebody mentioned going to the library to do that before registering for classes. I'm surprised that this info would be in the public record at any school.

We can look up professors' past evaluations (filled out by their previous students), but I am not aware of any way to look up their grading. Someone who is smarter than me might have a different answer, however.

[schooner]

What other kind of jobs are considered "BigGov," in addition to DOJ? Do GW students in general feel confident about competing for them?

[schooner]

This recruiters' guide - the bcg attorney Search Guide to America's Top 50 Law Schools (LinkRemoved) - has great info on GW (and other schools) that answers a few of the questions posted in this thread. Go to page 200 for GW. It looks like the job placements data, which I'm sure will raise suspicions among TLS'ers anyway, is based on pre-recession 2008 surveys.

Minimum GPAs Required (Based on May 2009 graduation class)
Minimum GPA required to fall within the top 10% of the class - 3.713
Minimum GPA required to fall within the top 25% of the class - 3.583
Minimum GPA required to fall within the top 33% of the class - 3.502
Minimum GPA required for graduation - 1.667

The BCG guide cites NALP for the GPA data above. According to NALP itself, the median is 3.371.

MINIMUM GRADE REQUIRED TO ATTAIN (Based on May 2010 graduation class)
Top 10%: 3.713
Top 25%: 3.583
Top 33%: 3.502
Top 50%: NA
Top 75%: NA
Median GPA: 3.371
Minimum grade required for graduation: 1.667

[queenlizzie13]

Good to know. I would want to work for the DOJ or something along those lines...wondering though if it is more worth it to retake the LSAT try and hit 170+ and then ED to GW next year to try and get the full scholarship at GW instead of paying sticker now...

I generally advocate getting as much free money as you can; so if you have reason to believe that waiting a year will put you over that 170 mark, it might be worth it to wait and reduce your debt by $150k.

If you want to work DOJ (or any other BigGov kind of job), know that they don't really hire new law school graduate except through the AG Honors Program. Most people have to lateral in from somewhere else - often from prosecutor/defense gigs or the private sector. Type of job doesn't matter for IBR, but it does matter for PSLF, so I would keep that in mind. (I am another of the DOJ-wannabes and I'm interning with one of their components this summer, so I'm happy to answer any questions you might along that vein, too. )

How do you like interning at one of the components? What kind of work are you doing?

I am also not sure I want to wait (my parents probably would not approve) but at the same
time it might be worth it in the long run if I can do it? How easy would it be to get a job at a government office or law office in Washington DC as some kind of admin assistant for a year while working and studying to retake the LSAT in October?

[mi-chan17]

What other kind of jobs are considered "BigGov," in addition to DOJ? Do GW students in general feel confident about competing for them?

What constitutes "BigGov" depends on who is speaking at the time, but most people I've talked to seem to take it as those legal jobs found within the Executive branch of the federal government. Confidence level seems to be about the same as for most other jobs, which I realize is probably not the specific answer you were looking for. Like I said before, a lot of DOJ-type jobs only take people through the honors program, so there aren't many people who go straight into them.

We do have a pretty large alumni presence at DOJ; hopefully they will keep hiring other GW grads once the hiring freeze lifts.

The BCG guide cites NALP for the GPA data above. According to NALP itself, the median is 3.371.

That sounds about right for the graduating class; bear in mind that the 1L curve is not the same as those in your 2L and 3L years.

How do you like interning at one of the components? What kind of work are you doing?

I am also not sure I want to wait (my parents probably would not approve) but at the same
time it might be worth it in the long run if I can do it? How easy would it be to get a job at a government office or law office in Washington DC as some kind of admin assistant for a year while working and studying to retake the LSAT in October?

I've loved my internship so far. I can't get too far into the specifics of what I am doing, because that would pretty neatly out myself, but I'm working for a division that does regulation, criminal, and civil work. I'm working doing the usual legal writing (memorandums, etc.) and also with regulatory writing, which is something you don't learn in school as much. So it's a great experience so far; if they offered me a job, I would accept it in a heartbeat (and not just because I fear unemployment).

Yeah, I can understand not wanting to wait. But think of it more like earning $150,000 in a year.

More seriously, although it's possible to get that kind of work in DC and it is easier to do here than in some other cities, I know that a lot of government jobs (federal and local) have various hiring freezes in effect due to the economy. Private sector would be a better bet, but I honestly do not know the ease or difficulty of landing admin work in DC firms.

[Naked Dude]

What other kind of jobs are considered "BigGov," in addition to DOJ? Do GW students in general feel confident about competing for them?

What constitutes "BigGov" depends on who is speaking at the time, but most people I've talked to seem to take it as those legal jobs found within the Executive branch of the federal government. Confidence level seems to be about the same as for most other jobs, which I realize is probably not the specific answer you were looking for. Like I said before, a lot of DOJ-type jobs only take people through the honors program, so there aren't many people who go straight into them.

We do have a pretty large alumni presence at DOJ; hopefully they will keep hiring other GW grads once the hiring freeze lifts.

The BCG guide cites NALP for the GPA data above. According to NALP itself, the median is 3.371.

That sounds about right for the graduating class; bear in mind that the 1L curve is not the same as those in your 2L and 3L years.

How do you like interning at one of the components? What kind of work are you doing?

I am also not sure I want to wait (my parents probably would not approve) but at the same
time it might be worth it in the long run if I can do it? How easy would it be to get a job at a government office or law office in Washington DC as some kind of admin assistant for a year while working and studying to retake the LSAT in October?

I've loved my internship so far. I can't get too far into the specifics of what I am doing, because that would pretty neatly out myself, but I'm working for a division that does regulation, criminal, and civil work. I'm working doing the usual legal writing (memorandums, etc.) and also with regulatory writing, which is something you don't learn in school as much. So it's a great experience so far; if they offered me a job, I would accept it in a heartbeat (and not just because I fear unemployment).

Yeah, I can understand not wanting to wait. But think of it more like earning $150,000 in a year.

More seriously, although it's possible to get that kind of work in DC and it is easier to do here than in some other cities, I know that a lot of government jobs (federal and local) have various hiring freezes in effect due to the economy. Private sector would be a better bet, but I honestly do not know the ease or difficulty of landing admin work in DC firms.

Sounds like your summer job was a nice-sized score for you. Congratulations! Can you speak to the difficulty of getting a similar 1L position in general?

[dood]

At GW can you look up the grades that a particular professor has given out in the past? In that F grade thread, somebody mentioned going to the library to do that before registering for classes. I'm surprised that this info would be in the public record at any school.

We can look up professors' past evaluations (filled out by their previous students), but I am not aware of any way to look up their grading. Someone who is smarter than me might have a different answer, however.

step1: walk to records office (available hard copy only)
step2: go to counter on left (or just ask) and open binder that says "grade distributions for XX year"
step3: ???
step4: PROFIT!!

fyi, i cannot recall seeing any Fs in that book.

[Teoeo]

For Big Gov, some agencies that pop into my head right off the bat are (almost all have honors programs):

EEOC, NLRB, DOL, DOD, HUD, EPA, Department of Treasury, Department of Homeland Security, Department of Veterans Affairs, CIA, FDIC, IRS, Nuclear Regulatory Commission, Securities and Exchange Commission, Department of Transportation, FCC, Federal Trade Commission, Department of Education, Government Accountability Office, U.S. Department of Governmental Ethics and U.S. Post Office.

lol.. that was longer than I expected

[Encyclopedia Brown]

According to NALP itself, the median is 3.371.

That's the median at graduation for that particular class. All the 1L classes (besides LRW) are curved to a 3.2, and I think the large upper-level classes are as well.

[schooner]

According to NALP itself, the median is 3.371.

That's the median at graduation for that particular class. All the 1L classes (besides LRW) are curved to a 3.2, and I think the large upper-level classes are as well.

TLS is a godsend - thanks to all the current students here for your helpful replies.

How are LRW classes graded? I vaguely recall reading a quasi-warning in one of the GW guidebooks that LRW is graded (and thus shouldn't be blown off), but that was it.

PS - somebody in another thread asked about 1L midterms. Do those count toward your final grade? (I edited my original post to include this question.)

[philswfc2008]

Here's a question for any current GW students that isn't quite as important as some of the others on this thread, but is one I've been wondering about. I'm trying to plan out a few things for 1L year coming up, and I was wondering what GW Law students do for lunches. Is it common/economically feasible to purchase some sort of dining option through GW, and eat on campus during the day? I don't know yet where I am living, but I would ideally like to stay on campus all day, and not have to run home for lunch. On the flip side, I don't want to have to purchase $10 meals out for lunch every day if I can help it. What do you guys all do, and how much does it cost? Thanks!