Cornell 1L taking questions Forum

[afghan007]

From a quick search of this thread, I've gathered that Hillman is the man, Dorf is awesome, Rossi is big time in civ pro, heise gives closed book, and I scored in nabbing Whelan for Lawyering.. missing anything in this analysis?

[como]

So we've got class schedules now.

Any of you rising 2Ls selling books? Can I get a price quote?

I probably don't have any casebooks in good condition. I've got tons of supplements though for any interested people.

@Cy -- the Hillman hornbook is valuable for Hillman or Summers (I'm told). I had Hillman and it pretty much tracked his lectures. You also have the right attitude on supplements. Although my friends with the best grades pretty much eschewed supplements, I'm not convinced there is a correlation between their use/non-use and their grades. You might just want to stay ahead of the class in the relevant hornbook, but go through all the details of the cases nonetheless.

[como]

From a quick search of this thread, I've gathered that Hillman is the man, Dorf is awesome, Rossi is big time in civ pro, heise gives closed book, and I scored in nabbing Whelan for Lawyering.. missing anything in this analysis?

Both contracts and civ pro professors are gods in their respective fields. You can't go wrong. Dorf is supposedly really good -- I played basketball with him and he is pretty nasty out there. Heise is awesome. I think he was one of my favorite professors. He is pretty funny, but I'm not sure it's intentional. I've got an excellent Heise outline if you want.

[mec30]

Sorry if this has been answered before, but what is the difference between a hornbook and a supplement? For example, for Hillman's class I'm assuming, "Principles of Contract Law, 2d, The Concise Hornbook Series" is the hornbook you're all referring too. Is a hornbook just a specific brand of supplement? Should you buy the hornbook only if your professor wrote it?

[vexion]

Do we need the Bluebook the first day of class? Amazon's out of stock, and the official site's a little pricey. On that note, should I get the print version, the online edition, or both? And do I need a Bluebook "supplement", like one of those "Understanding the Bluebook"s?

[sheltron5000]

Do we need the Bluebook the first day of class? Amazon's out of stock, and the official site's a little pricey. On that note, should I get the print version, the online edition, or both? And do I need a Bluebook "supplement", like one of those "Understanding the Bluebook"s?

No. Print. No.

If you've ever used a citation/style guide, like APA, MLA, or Chicago, the bluebook is just like those, but the people who write it are neurotic obsessive compulsives on massive overdoses of ritalin. You'll need it for citations in your lawyering class and for the writing competition in the spring. I like the print version better because you can tab it and flip through it to find things you just can't figure out.

[vexion]

No. Print. No.

If you've ever used a citation/style guide, like APA, MLA, or Chicago, the bluebook is just like those, but the people who write it are neurotic obsessive compulsives on massive overdoses of ritalin. You'll need it for citations in your lawyering class and for the writing competition in the spring. I like the print version better because you can tab it and flip through it to find things you just can't figure out.

Thanks!

[sheltron5000]

Sorry if this has been answered before, but what is the difference between a hornbook and a supplement? For example, for Hillman's class I'm assuming, "Principles of Contract Law, 2d, The Concise Hornbook Series" is the hornbook you're all referring too. Is a hornbook just a specific brand of supplement? Should you buy the hornbook only if your professor wrote it?

A hornbook is like a brief description of the law: think law for dummies, they are not intended exclusively for law students. Supplements are intended to "supplement" your casebooks. A lot of them are actually "keyed," or designed to follow along with, certain casebooks. Supplements will have questions, examples, and probably sample exam questions.

I found the hornbooks to be more useful since they go into more depth (i.e. they actually talk about the confusing stuff). the few supplements I tried were, for the most part, not very helpful; they tend to stick to the basics and because most aren't written by your professors or the casebook author, they may be confusing or even misleading.

The best supplements were probably the glannon guides, since they avoid trying to explain too much and really just work through the examples. Particularly useful were the glannon guide to civil procedure, and the glannon guide to property.

AVOID "canned" briefs, even if they are keyed to your book. It's way too easy to rely on them rather than reading the case and they discuss cases in the "average" interpretation which may be extremely different from what your professor is trying to teach.

AVOID commercial outlines. Again, these describe the most common approach to a particular area of law, and your professor's approach is probably VERY different. If you need an outline, just sign up for the BARBRI pre-registration and use their outlines (carefully, of course).

Hope that answers your questions!

[mec30]

That was super helpful, thanks

[legallybrunette16]

What about Mooney, Shiffrin, and Herstein? I feel like they haven't really been talked about. What's the consensus?

[mbw]

What about Mooney, Shiffrin, and Herstein? I feel like they haven't really been talked about. What's the consensus?

I had friends who had Shiffrin and loved him.

[sheltron5000]

What about Mooney, Shiffrin, and Herstein? I feel like they haven't really been talked about. What's the consensus?

Herstein is a visiting proffessor (i.e. they're giving him a really long interview) check out his cv and bio to get more info: http://www.lawschool.cornell.edu/faculty/bio.cfm?id=422. He seems pretty interesting to me.

[fsohn]

What about Mooney, Shiffrin, and Herstein? I feel like they haven't really been talked about. What's the consensus?

Shiffrin is not the best teacher in the world, but he's very easy to talk to and welcoming during office hours--which for him are whenever he is there, and not the 2 hours a week that some professors have. Herstein is a visiting professor, so no one will have had him. Know nothing about Mooney.

[AdamatUCF]

Civ Pro with Clermont, Con Law with Chafetz, Contracts with Summers, Lawyering with Buble, and Torts with Herstein.

What am I in for?

I know Summers doesn't allow laptops, and Clermont is the man who wrote the book, (and apparently Herstein is a "visiting professor" as Sheltron mentioned) but what else should I know?

[danidancer]

No one's talked much about Section B profs. Is there a consensus on Meyler, Atlas, and Wendel?

[danidancer]

No one's talked much about Section B profs. Is there a consensus on Meyler, Atlas, and Wendel?

I'll take that as a no.

[cornell12cornell]

Wendel is the man. His real point of interest is actually professional responsibility but I think he was the best pure teacher I had at cornell.

Ok so if anyone has Chaefetz (sp) i have 2 BRAND NEW conlaw books (The Processes of Constitutional Decision Making). They will be good for someone who wanted to buy new books anyway (for the amount of writing I did in my other books, I def needed new ones). I will be charging a very good price considering that they are new. Let me know if you are interested.

[cornell12cornell]

What about Mooney, Shiffrin, and Herstein? I feel like they haven't really been talked about. What's the consensus?

both awesome.

[let/them/eat/cake]

curious, does anyone have Hans for Torts?

[Sgt. Pepper]

This question has probably been answered to death already (maybe even on this thread), but I was wondering if anyone's gone through the LEEWS program and could thus speak to its (seeming) efficacy, or lack thereof. I'm just now learning of its existence in virtue of reading two of the "How to Succeed in Law School" articles posted on TLS, both of which sing its praises and consider it a must.

[fsohn]

This question has probably been answered to death already (maybe even on this thread), but I was wondering if anyone's gone through the LEEWS program and could thus speak to its (seeming) efficacy, or lack thereof. I'm just now learning of its existence in virtue of reading two of the "How to Succeed in Law School" articles posted on TLS, both of which sing its praises and consider it a must.

It is not a must, and simply part of the cottage industry that preys on student insecurity. You absolutely do not need it.

[sheltron5000]

This question has probably been answered to death already (maybe even on this thread), but I was wondering if anyone's gone through the LEEWS program and could thus speak to its (seeming) efficacy, or lack thereof. I'm just now learning of its existence in virtue of reading two of the "How to Succeed in Law School" articles posted on TLS, both of which sing its praises and consider it a must.

I did it and thought it really helped give a better sense of how to approach the classic issue spotter, but then only had 1.5 classic issue spotter exams... You could also just get a copy of the book or CDs and get just as much out of it. Ignore everything he says about how to form an essay exam sentence and How to Study for Class (basically the last four hours of the seminar).

Otherwise, also read Getting to Maybe and Law School Confidential ignore all the sad gunners reading Planet Law School, I can't speak to T4 schools, but he gives a really sad and totally inaccurate picture of my 1L year at Cornell.

[Sgt. Pepper]

Thanks for the advice! I desperately want to believe you, fsohn, so as not to feel behind ALREADY, but I'm afraid TLS gunners are getting to my brain. I'll probably pick up Getting to Maybe in the next few days, just so I feel like I've done something. Also, if anyone has a copy of LEEWS they wouldn't mind renting out to me (or letting me borrow!), I might give it a listen. $100+ is difficult to part with at this point, especially on something that might not help.

[LeahNic]

Thanks for the advice! I desperately want to believe you, fsohn, so as not to feel behind ALREADY, but I'm afraid TLS gunners are getting to my brain. I'll probably pick up Getting to Maybe in the next few days, just so I feel like I've done something. Also, if anyone has a copy of LEEWS they wouldn't mind renting out to me (or letting me borrow!), I might give it a listen. $100+ is difficult to part with at this point, especially on something that might not help.

I didn't do LEEWS or read any sort of law school related prep work before I started. I don't think it put me at a disadvantage at all. If it makes you feel better, maybe it will be worth it to you, but I would save your $100+.

[Other25BeforeYou]

What about Mooney, Shiffrin, and Herstein? I feel like they haven't really been talked about. What's the consensus?

I loooooooved Shiffrin. Loved him. I looked forward to Constitutional Law. He's very relaxed and laid back, while still making you work to understand. His exam was rough though. Ours was 7 essay questions (one with two parts) with one hour to outline and two hours to write. So basically 15 minutes per question for writing, which was sort of ridiculous. Slow typers beware.

Mooney grew on me a lot as the semester went on. I was frustrated with her at the beginning of my first semester, and by the end of the semester was really, really glad I'd had her. She knows what she's talking about and takes things seriously, and you'll learn a lot from her, but she also won't work you to death.