Do You Regret Going to Law School? Forum

[jetsfan1]

Just read through most of this thread for the first time. As a 0L, the one thing that struck me was the discussion about how you should only go to law school if you want to practice law, but that's really impossible to know until you go to law school/work as an SA. I've interned at a single lawyer "firm" in small town rural America. Going in, I really though I was gonna be able to decide if law school was for me off of this experience. Basically, all I did was work on property law, and found it incredibly boring. Then I realized there are a tonnn of other areas, and what I was doing was hardly representative of what my life as a lawyer would be. So, I'm back to the drawing board not sure about law school.

I guess, If there's a question here for law students/grads, it's this. Is that an accurate outlook? Is there really any way to find out I I wan to be a lawyer. Thanks guys.

From,
A confused 0L still trying to decide and hopin TLS will come through like it always does.

[RodneyRuxin]

A confused 0L still trying to decide and hopin TLS will come through like it always does.

Did you like reading cases? Writing?

You truly have to like the material to be able to work hard and not face burnout. You have to enjoy what you're doing.

If you need more experience, why not work as a paralegal for a year?

[portaprokoss]

I don't think anyone would deny law jobs being enjoyable and "worth it" is debatable and there's certainly arguments to be had but citing the fact people wrote books about the topic doesn't make it a clear cut answer. I'm sure I can find books about why law jobs are worth it, just like we can find books on both sides of any major argument.

Of course some people would argue that the law is enjoyable. There are—in fact—people who enjoy practicing law.

My point isn’t that people wrote books with damning titles. My point is that those books contain studies, surveys, and statistics showing lawyers to be much more, significantly more dissatisfied and unhappy than 1) the general population and 2) those in comparable professions. Studies have confirmed this over and over again for the past 60 years. The data also shows that the dissatisfaction rate is continually rising.

Only one study (out of literally hundreds) found differently—Urban Lawyers by Heinz, Nelson, Sandefur, and Laurmann (2005)—and it has been unanimously criticized for poor method and leading/ unclear questions.

So sure, you can find books written by people who like the law. Those books will be packed with opinion and anecdote re: their own personal life-journey. But know that it is statistically unlikely you will share those feelings.

[06102016]

..

[bld2414]

I dont regret my decision at all, but I feel like my situation couldnt have worked out any better.

I give out pretty negative advice about law school to those who ask.

[los blancos]

Also, those jobs that qualify aren't quite as hard as you might've heard. Although they're certainly not easy. Just depends. City Attorney office? Scarce. Public defender / DA? Very, very easy to get.

wat

[sf_39]

I don't think anyone would deny law jobs being enjoyable and "worth it" is debatable and there's certainly arguments to be had but citing the fact people wrote books about the topic doesn't make it a clear cut answer. I'm sure I can find books about why law jobs are worth it, just like we can find books on both sides of any major argument.

Of course some people would argue that the law is enjoyable. There are—in fact—people who enjoy practicing law.

My point isn’t that people wrote books with damning titles. My point is that those books contain studies, surveys, and statistics showing lawyers to be much more, significantly more dissatisfied and unhappy than 1) the general population and 2) those in comparable professions. Studies have confirmed this over and over again for the past 60 years. The data also shows that the dissatisfaction rate is continually rising.

Only one study (out of literally hundreds) found differently—Urban Lawyers by Heinz, Nelson, Sandefur, and Laurmann (2005)—and it has been unanimously criticized for poor method and leading/ unclear questions.

So sure, you can find books written by people who like the law. Those books will be packed with opinion and anecdote re: their own personal life-journey. But know that it is statistically unlikely you will share those feelings.

Ok but that wasn't what you said. You listed a bunch of books and said read what they say about the problem. You should be able to understand where I was coming from.

It's hard for me to debate the merits of those books without seeing the studies, facts, and sources they use. I'm also slightly skeptical of approaching any career related study in terms of depression on a general scale though when it comes to making an individual decision. If one was making a purely financial decision for LS then it's a perfectly viable discussion to have but career choices in general have more variables in terms of skill sets, general preferences and several other intangibles variables to bring into a discussion.

[LaBarrister]

Also, those jobs that qualify aren't quite as hard as you might've heard. Although they're certainly not easy. Just depends. City Attorney office? Scarce. Public defender / DA? Very, very easy to get.

wat

They are in the city of my state's flagship, where only 3 or 4 people are competing for each position this year.

[LaBarrister]

I don't think anyone would deny law jobs being enjoyable and "worth it" is debatable and there's certainly arguments to be had but citing the fact people wrote books about the topic doesn't make it a clear cut answer. I'm sure I can find books about why law jobs are worth it, just like we can find books on both sides of any major argument.

Of course some people would argue that the law is enjoyable. There are—in fact—people who enjoy practicing law.

My point isn’t that people wrote books with damning titles. My point is that those books contain studies, surveys, and statistics showing lawyers to be much more, significantly more dissatisfied and unhappy than 1) the general population and 2) those in comparable professions. Studies have confirmed this over and over again for the past 60 years. The data also shows that the dissatisfaction rate is continually rising.

Only one study (out of literally hundreds) found differently—Urban Lawyers by Heinz, Nelson, Sandefur, and Laurmann (2005)—and it has been unanimously criticized for poor method and leading/ unclear questions.

So sure, you can find books written by people who like the law. Those books will be packed with opinion and anecdote re: their own personal life-journey. But know that it is statistically unlikely you will share those feelings.

Ok but that wasn't what you said. You listed a bunch of books and said read what they say about the problem. You should be able to understand where I was coming from.

It's hard for me to debate the merits of those books without seeing the studies, facts, and sources they use. I'm also slightly skeptical of approaching any career related study in terms of depression on a general scale though when it comes to making an individual decision. If one was making a purely financial decision for LS then it's a perfectly viable discussion to have but career choices in general have more variables in terms of skill sets, general preferences and several other intangibles variables to bring into a discussion.

portaprokoss may spell this out for you on more eloquent terms, but I will tell you that you cannot dispel the ubiquitous savagery of the legal community. You just can't. It is real and it is everywhere. The only differences are in concentration.

[LaBarrister]

A confused 0L still trying to decide and hopin TLS will come through like it always does.

Did you like reading cases? Writing?

You truly have to like the material to be able to work hard and not face burnout. You have to enjoy what you're doing.

If you need more experience, why not work as a paralegal for a year?

Is it not highly probable that one would experience burnout from working 80+ hours a week on anything, even if he or she loved the work? It is. Too much of a good thing is a bad thing. Unless one has a high affinity for an unbalanced lifestyle, merely liking the work would not repel burnout.

[BlueDiamond]

Every. Single. Day.

[presh]

Also, those jobs that qualify aren't quite as hard as you might've heard. Although they're certainly not easy. Just depends. City Attorney office? Scarce. Public defender / DA? Very, very easy to get.

wat

They are in the city of my state's flagship, where only 3 or 4 people are competing for each position this year.

They are most places. It was a dumb post.

[Kronk]

Yeah, if you commit to criminal law work early on in LS and work there both summers, you can pretty much nab it. In the state I worked at, you didn't even really need to be at a prestigious school. Once you're in the system some places, you're pretty much in, and PD / DA jobs are one of those things where once you show your commitment to one side or the other and to criminal law in general, you have a huge advantage over anyone who didn't do so.

[portaprokoss]

It's hard for me to debate the merits of those books without seeing the studies, facts, and sources they use.

You're absolutely right. You should take the time to inform yourself.

Earlier, posters put forth arguments along the lines of "that's just, like, your opinion, man" and "if you hate law you're just a spoiled rich baby." I want to steer those people toward objective data. Since finals are approaching and we’re all in the library studying, that information is just a few steps away.

[bjsesq]

To answer the OP: yes. I regret it.

[Oban]

3L, had big scholly, but still graduating with about 100K mainly due to cost of living. While I'm a seriously jaded about law/law school, I don't regret it because my Job before law school was horrible, despite decent pay. There are just not a lot of options coming out of college theese days. It's very feast or famine. Of my friends from my Undergrad, they are either in grad school, working as a barista/service industry jobs, or making bank. There doesn't seem to be much middle ground.

So while law school may leave me in debt, I was under employed in a dead end job before.

[jetsfan1]

jetsfan1 wrote:
A confused 0L still trying to decide and hopin TLS will come through like it always does.


Did you like reading cases? Writing?

You truly have to like the material to be able to work hard and not face burnout. You have to enjoy what you're doing.

If you need more experience, why not work as a paralegal for a year?

That's the thing- I didn't do much of that stuff at all. He mostly had me going back through property abstracts and ensuring the deeds had been conveyed correctly. I'm thinking about working as a paralegal, but I don't want big law, would want to do PI. Would it still give me a similar experience/let me know if it's what I wanted?

[Rahviveh]

Yeah, if you commit to criminal law work early on in LS and work there both summers, you can pretty much nab it. In the state I worked at, you didn't even really need to be at a prestigious school. Once you're in the system some places, you're pretty much in, and PD / DA jobs are one of those things where once you show your commitment to one side or the other and to criminal law in general, you have a huge advantage over anyone who didn't do so.

Is this true even in major markets like SF/LA/NY?

[dp73816]

Hated every second of it, not sure if I regret it just yet. Will only know in a few years.

[Kronk]

Yeah, if you commit to criminal law work early on in LS and work there both summers, you can pretty much nab it. In the state I worked at, you didn't even really need to be at a prestigious school. Once you're in the system some places, you're pretty much in, and PD / DA jobs are one of those things where once you show your commitment to one side or the other and to criminal law in general, you have a huge advantage over anyone who didn't do so.

Is this true even in major markets like SF/LA/NY?

Some particular offices would be especially hard to nab (like NYC, certain ones in SF) and some states are tougher than others, but I think you could make my original post true in the general area. For example, Contra Costa County or Alameda County for SF, so you'd be just 30 minutes outside or so.

Some offices really do hire directly from their intern pool and their interns are basically assured of jobs in the same way SAs are--they are offered near the end of their 2L summer and almost all of them are offered unless you fuck up--that's not true from some of the most prestigious offices (like one in New York--might be Brooklyn, can't remember) but either way if you aren't picky within an hour of your desired location I think that principle holds true in most places.

[los blancos]

Also, those jobs that qualify aren't quite as hard as you might've heard. Although they're certainly not easy. Just depends. City Attorney office? Scarce. Public defender / DA? Very, very easy to get.

wat

They are in the city of my state's flagship, where only 3 or 4 people are competing for each position this year.

They are most places. It was a dumb post.

No, it wasn't. Definitely not in this part of the country. And even 3 or 4 people competing for each position ≠ "very, very easy"

If those jobs were so easy to get, we wouldn't have droves of law school grads who can't find legal work.

Yeah, if you commit to criminal law work early on in LS and work there both summers, you can pretty much nab it. In the state I worked at, you didn't even really need to be at a prestigious school. Once you're in the system some places, you're pretty much in, and PD / DA jobs are one of those things where once you show your commitment to one side or the other and to criminal law in general, you have a huge advantage over anyone who didn't do so.

I don't disagree with any of this, but I still think your original statement was a stretch, especially in this budget climate.

[cpajd]

No Regrets. For those making this decision, I think there are two keys: 1) possess a true desire to practice law, and 2) find a way to NOT borrow much money. Its really pretty simple. The ones that have regrets did not adequately address these two issues, by and large.

Yeah breh, but the fact is that 95% of people don't really know if they want to practice law until they know what practicing law entails, and don't really know what practicing law entails until they have gone to law school. It's not really as simple as "do you have a true desire to practice law?" I think almost everyone believes they have a true desire to practice law prior to school.

Being a legal assistant (and sometimes even a paralegal) doesn't really let you know what it's going to be like or what the classes will be like, either. Neither does taking one law-ish class in UG, as it's more that every class is the exact same than that any one particular class is awful, IMO.

True enough, but this field is not different than most any other career. You want to be a doctor, but don't know what its really like till you've actually practiced for a period of time. You want to be a teacher, but don't know what its really like till you've taught. The reality is we do the most homework we can to investigate a given career, then make the best decision we can. My point is that many of the disillusioned JDs weren't really sure they wanted to practice, so the realities of the job coupled with crushing debt almost always is a killer. Again, do your homework (investigate, work at a law firm, talk to people, read up on the realities of the work), then do everything possible NOT to take on much debt. I still believe its a pretty simple formula.

[Rahviveh]

No Regrets. For those making this decision, I think there are two keys: 1) possess a true desire to practice law, and 2) find a way to NOT borrow much money. Its really pretty simple. The ones that have regrets did not adequately address these two issues, by and large.

Yeah breh, but the fact is that 95% of people don't really know if they want to practice law until they know what practicing law entails, and don't really know what practicing law entails until they have gone to law school. It's not really as simple as "do you have a true desire to practice law?" I think almost everyone believes they have a true desire to practice law prior to school.

Being a legal assistant (and sometimes even a paralegal) doesn't really let you know what it's going to be like or what the classes will be like, either. Neither does taking one law-ish class in UG, as it's more that every class is the exact same than that any one particular class is awful, IMO.

True enough, but this field is not different than most any other career. You want to be a doctor, but don't know what its really like till you've actually practiced for a period of time. You want to be a teacher, but don't know what its really like till you've taught. The reality is we do the most homework we can to investigate a given career, then make the best decision we can. My point is that many of the disillusioned JDs weren't really sure they wanted to practice, so the realities of the job coupled with crushing debt almost always is a killer. Again, do your homework (investigate, work at a law firm, talk to people, read up on the realities of the work), then do everything possible NOT to take on much debt. I still believe its a pretty simple formula.

Its not really that simple, because in a lot of cases taking less debt also means reducing the chance at the job you want.

[Kronk]

Yeah, if you commit to criminal law work early on in LS and work there both summers, you can pretty much nab it. In the state I worked at, you didn't even really need to be at a prestigious school. Once you're in the system some places, you're pretty much in, and PD / DA jobs are one of those things where once you show your commitment to one side or the other and to criminal law in general, you have a huge advantage over anyone who didn't do so.

I don't disagree with any of this, but I still think your original statement was a stretch, especially in this budget climate.

I disagree.

[bk1]

I don't really get the "true desire" argument. It's a job. Should people have a true desire to be an electrician? Work in IT? Be an accountant?