The Minnesota Legal Market - UMN, WM, UST, HM, Iowa/Wisc Forum

[minnbills]

How do think the Faegre merger will affect hiring?

Thanks again- you've been a huge help.

[MinnesotaBigLaw11]

It is hard to say. An acquisition is not likely to have much of an affect on the Minneapolis office, which is the only office they really hire out of Minnesota schools. There may be additional opportunities in their new markets, but they likely won't be going to Minnesota schools to fill those roles.

[MinnesotaBigLaw11]

Taking questions again this week.

[ScrabbleChamp]

Taking questions again this week.

For someone interested in tax, do you know how MSP employers view the Master of Business Taxation from UMN as opposed to an LLM? I guess, is it worth it to do a joint JD/MBT program at UMN, or will employers still want a reputable LLM?

[MinnesotaBigLaw11]

I can't really speculate as to tax. Take a look at the tax attorneys' bios in town to see what they have. Typically, they'll be looking for similar to what they have.

Also, something a lot of people don't realize, but the large law firms in Minnesota have very small tax groups that largely serve as in-house counsel for the M&A and other corporate departments. There are very few positions available for young tax attorneys in Minneapolis if your goal is biglaw. That being said, the tax background could be useful for some of the in-house counsel positions in town. There are also smaller shops that do personal tax. I wouldn't expect to get a biglaw position in tax in Minneapolis. Most of the larger tax practices in the midwest are out of Chicago.

[jd2b1010]

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[Guillaume9]

Thanks for OP's posts. I have posted this elsewhere but OP seems to have a bit of insider's perspective so I'd like to hear some suggestions from him.
I am an international student and I have just been admitted by Cornell (no aid info) and Minnesota (full ride for a GPA > 2.5).
I read somewhere in this forum that law firms in Minneapolis are unlikely to hire any international student. But the thought of going to Cornell and end up with a 200k debt is daunting. I do not have a strong location preference, although being an international student may mean I'll have to go to the coasts because it seems that firms there are the only firms sponsoring H1B visas???? (I'm not sure about this...)
So what would you choose between these two schools? I know that it may be a little too early to ask this question, and I am still waiting for some other schools, but I just want to hear some input before having to make a decision several months later. Thanks in advance.

[dusk2k2]

I can help you out. What sort of background do you have? If you've got a technical background and don't care where you end up, then take Minnesota on the full ride. The market here loves people with technical backgrounds and doesn't care that much where you are from if you have said background. Otherwise, wait until you hear from other schools.

[woodscommaL]

I'm debating between U of MN and UST, and looking for objective opinions.

The Facts:
- I'm OOS (at least for the first year), but I've been accepted to the U with a $23,000 a year scholly. So my cost of attendance for three years (not including cost of living) would either be $69,000 or $39,000 (depending on whether I get in state or not for 2L and 3L)
- I was accepted to UST with a nearly full ride.
- My career goals are to do Biotech IP Biglaw or in-house.
- I have strong ties to MN. I lived there most of my life, attended UG there, and have some strong legal connections already.
- I am confident in my ability to perform near the top of my class.

I know the the U is much higher ranked and has more mobility, but if I'm comfortable with the idea of staying in the Minneapolis market, and already have an established network, would I be able to get the same employment opportunities coming from UST? No debt sounds really appealing.

[MNbound]

I'm debating between U of MN and UST, and looking for objective opinions.

The Facts:
- I'm OOS (at least for the first year), but I've been accepted to the U with a $23,000 a year scholly. So my cost of attendance for three years (not including cost of living) would either be $69,000 or $39,000 (depending on whether I get in state or not for 2L and 3L)
- I was accepted to UST with a full ride.
- My career goals are to do Biotech IP Biglaw or in-house.
- I have strong ties to MN. I lived there most of my life, attended UG there, and have some strong legal connections already.
- I am confident in my ability to perform near the top of my class.

I know the the U is much higher ranked and has more mobility, but if I'm comfortable with the idea of staying in the Minneapolis market, and already have an established network, would I be able to get the same employment opportunities coming from UST? No debt sounds really appealing.

hey L,woods, did you get a completely full ride to UST? Other people on LSN and myself recieved a 33,000 a year award, slightly less then a full ride, it seemed like UST wasn't giving out full scholarships this year. Also, did you apply to WIlliam Mitchell? I got a full scholarship there and its at about the same level as UST in the MN market.

[woodscommaL]

I'm debating between U of MN and UST, and looking for objective opinions.

The Facts:
- I'm OOS (at least for the first year), but I've been accepted to the U with a $23,000 a year scholly. So my cost of attendance for three years (not including cost of living) would either be $69,000 or $39,000 (depending on whether I get in state or not for 2L and 3L)
- I was accepted to UST with a full ride.
- My career goals are to do Biotech IP Biglaw or in-house.
- I have strong ties to MN. I lived there most of my life, attended UG there, and have some strong legal connections already.
- I am confident in my ability to perform near the top of my class.

I know the the U is much higher ranked and has more mobility, but if I'm comfortable with the idea of staying in the Minneapolis market, and already have an established network, would I be able to get the same employment opportunities coming from UST? No debt sounds really appealing.

hey L,woods, did you get a completely full ride to UST? Other people on LSN and myself recieved a 33,000 a year award, slightly less then a full ride, it seemed like UST wasn't giving out full scholarships this year. Also, did you apply to WIlliam Mitchell? I got a full scholarship there and its at about the same level as UST in the MN market.

Hey, I PMed you!

[wlee1220]

I was hoping to find out whether or not the employment/labor law market in Minnesota has improved. I was drawn to Minnesota because of the LL.M. in employment law, and I was strongly considering working in either Minneapolis or St. Paul after graduation. I don't have exact ties to the region, but I fell in love with Minnesota some years ago and would like to eventually settle there.

[nickjive]

Thank you for all your wisdom, OP, and I hope you're still around.

I have absolutely no ties to MN, but my SO and I love the state and love to fish, camp, and kayak up there. That quality of life is really what we're looking for.

How well do I need to perform at U Iowa in order to crack into the larger MN firms? Median? Top 3rd? Top 15%? (relatively new Iowa resident paying in-state)

Thanks in advance

[grtbooks91]

Thanks, OP, this has been a really informative read.

Can you speak really quickly to the reception of a Notre Dame degree in the MSP area?

[emeske]

Looking for any insight...

100% Scholarship @ Hamline v. 75% Scholarship @ William Mitchell

Which is the better investment?


Also, does anyone have any experience/ tips as far as leveraging one school's offer against the other. For example, if I come back to Mitchell and ask for further funding are they likely to demonstrate some flexibility or show me the door?

[MNbound]

@emske

I recieved a 100% scholarship at william mitchell this cycle. When I asked them at a law school fair how their full scholarships worked, they said that they looked for numbers at and above a 165 and a 3.50. However, I would try to leverage your scholarship with hamline, its worth a shot. Even if they say no, it's not like they would take away your 75% scholarsip.

I'm a 0L like yourself so I don't really know if my advice is the best, but I'm pretty sure everyone regards hamline as the worst of the 4 law schools in MN. I think the repuatation and alumni network of william mitchell far exceeds hamline and they also have a number of named scholarships you might be able to snag in your later years that would reduce the other 25%.

[paulinaporizkova]

Looking for any insight...

100% Scholarship @ Hamline v. 75% Scholarship @ William Mitchell

Which is the better investment?


Also, does anyone have any experience/ tips as far as leveraging one school's offer against the other. For example, if I come back to Mitchell and ask for further funding are they likely to demonstrate some flexibility or show me the door?

Probably WM. I don't go to TC schools but I'm from the area and it seems like the only two local schools with any kind of legit contingents at big firms are WM and the U.

[minnbills]

Probably WM. I don't go to TC schools but I'm from the area and it seems like the only two local schools with any kind of legit contingents at big firms are WM and the U.

+1

I would stay away from Hamline.

I don't know about negotiations but it's always worth a try, worst case they say no.

[Ljsmith2]

This is aimed at the original poster. What do you think this falls OCI will be like for targeting MN firms? Interested coming from a T14.

[MNbound]

Hey there were a few changes in the rankings for minnesota schools for the USNWR Ranings this year. UMN moved to the 19 spot which might be the best ranking they have ever had. Iowa moved down from 27 to 29, Wisconsin stayed the same at 35. St. Thomas moved up from 135 to 119 and William Mitchell moved up from 135 to 127. Because there are a bunch of schools tied at 119 and 127, they are essentially one ranking apart, sort of. Hamline still sits in tier 4.

[quadsixm]

Don't know if these rankings change anything, as their relative positions stayed the same.

Hey there were a few changes in the rankings for minnesota schools for the USNWR Ranings this year. UMN moved to the 19 spot which might be the best ranking they have ever had. Iowa moved down from 27 to 29, Wisconsin stayed the same at 35. St. Thomas moved up from 135 to 119 and William Mitchell moved up from 135 to 127. Because there are a bunch of schools tied at 119 and 127, they are essentially one ranking apart, sort of. Hamline still sits in tier 4.

[MNbound]

you're right, the rankings didn't change in terms of relative position, but lying to USNWR might harm St. Thomas in the future.

http://www.usnews.com/education/blogs/c ... nking-data

[MidwestJosh]

H UMN moved to the 19 spot which might be the best ranking they have ever had.

This is not accurate. In fact, Minnesota's average rank has been 19-20 since rankings existed, and its been as high as 17th. Please don't say things that you're not certain about, that's what causes this site to be an echo-forum of the uninformed. See: http://www.prelawhandbook.com/law_schoo ... _1987_1999 for '87-99 and http://www.prelawhandbook.com/law_schoo ... 00_present for '00-'08.

[MidwestJosh]

Thanks, OP, this has been a really informative read.

Can you speak really quickly to the reception of a Notre Dame degree in the MSP area?

Depends on what percentile. You'll be a stronger applicant regardless of class rank when competing against UST and Hamline. You'll need to be considerably high-ranked to compete against a UMN grad, and at least on par with a Mitchell grad.

[MidwestJosh]

I was hoping to find out whether or not the employment/labor law market in Minnesota has improved. I was drawn to Minnesota because of the LL.M. in employment law, and I was strongly considering working in either Minneapolis or St. Paul after graduation. I don't have exact ties to the region, but I fell in love with Minnesota some years ago and would like to eventually settle there.

I'm an employment/labor law concentration. The employment/labor practice is rebounding at the same rate as the economy. Things tend to take off a bit quicker on the plaintiff's side and then subsequently bounce back on the employer side. At least on litigation, Minnesota's market is doing pretty well right now.