Cornell 1L taking questions Forum

[calicocat]

It's not too late. You have been warned. Marry rich.

Plan B

[kn6542]

mbw is the only one I know for sure has dependents, but to anyone who might have advice: My husband is insured through graduate school in California but obviously he won't be "in residence" once we move to Ithaca. Cornell is charging over $3,700 for a spouse/children which seems exorbitant. Does anyone know of reasonable insurance that works well in the area? Something through Cayuga Med Center maybe? Any ideas on where to even look?

That's actually not that much for a spouse and children.

[jks289]

mbw is the only one I know for sure has dependents, but to anyone who might have advice: My husband is insured through graduate school in California but obviously he won't be "in residence" once we move to Ithaca. Cornell is charging over $3,700 for a spouse/children which seems exorbitant. Does anyone know of reasonable insurance that works well in the area? Something through Cayuga Med Center maybe? Any ideas on where to even look?

That's actually not that much for a spouse and children.

Together? No. But for an individual healthy adult more than $300/month for basic group health insurance (not including vision and dental, not a PPO) is a lot. At least it is significantly more than we pay in California.

[como]

mbw is the only one I know for sure has dependents, but to anyone who might have advice: My husband is insured through graduate school in California but obviously he won't be "in residence" once we move to Ithaca. Cornell is charging over $3,700 for a spouse/children which seems exorbitant. Does anyone know of reasonable insurance that works well in the area? Something through Cayuga Med Center maybe? Any ideas on where to even look?

That's actually not that much for a spouse and children.

Together? No. But for an individual healthy adult more than $300/month for basic group health insurance (not including vision and dental, not a PPO) is a lot. At least it is significantly more than we pay in California.

You could check out FamilyHealthPlus, a public option. However, you and your husband need to make practically nothing to qualify. I'm not sure what kind of coverage you get either. If you have a kid, it's probably not a bad idea to go with the Cornell plan, considering the fact that kids tend to need medical care more frequently. If it's just you and your husband, you might be able to find a cheaper plan somewhere. The Cornell plan isn't exactly a deal, but it is better than most of your alternatives.

[jks289]

mbw is the only one I know for sure has dependents, but to anyone who might have advice: My husband is insured through graduate school in California but obviously he won't be "in residence" once we move to Ithaca. Cornell is charging over $3,700 for a spouse/children which seems exorbitant. Does anyone know of reasonable insurance that works well in the area? Something through Cayuga Med Center maybe? Any ideas on where to even look?

That's actually not that much for a spouse and children.

Together? No. But for an individual healthy adult more than $300/month for basic group health insurance (not including vision and dental, not a PPO) is a lot. At least it is significantly more than we pay in California.

You could check out FamilyHealthPlus, a public option. However, you and your husband need to make practically nothing to qualify. I'm not sure what kind of coverage you get either. If you have a kid, it's probably not a bad idea to go with the Cornell plan, considering the fact that kids tend to need medical care more frequently. If it's just you and your husband, you might be able to find a cheaper plan somewhere. The Cornell plan isn't exactly a deal, but it is better than most of your alternatives.

After some research today it looks like the Cornell plan is the best option. You need to make no money, or have gone uninsured for 12 months to qualify for most public options. In light of the regional rates, Cornell is actually fairly reasonable. Just sticker shock.

[kn6542]

Maybe they make a retroactive plan B that's cheaper than the Cornell plan.

[como]

After some research today it looks like the Cornell plan is the best option. You need to make no money, or have gone uninsured for 12 months to qualify for most public options. In light of the regional rates, Cornell is actually fairly reasonable. Just sticker shock.

Welcome to NY.

[Big Tuna]

Do we need to get NY health plans or can we keep our own plans?

[danidancer]

Do we need to get NY health plans or can we keep our own plans?

You should be able to keep what you have, but you have to submit proof of insurance to Cornell. A lot of people do this when they're still covered on their parents insurance. I'd call and ask...

[afghan007]

Any rising 2Ls have any information on upcoming OCI (i.e. # of firms)?

Does Ithaca's rural nature divert emphasis away from OCI?

Willing to comment on your personal preparation?

I didn't count, but there are something like 60-70 firms going to the August Job Fair, another 20ish going to OCI, and then another 30ish with all the other job fairs combined.

The rural nature presumably does keep firms away, that's why we have to trek to the city for a three-day job fair in mid-August.

I've put probably 12 hours into research on various firms. My bid strategy took into account a few factors, in the following order of importance:

Call-back probability (based on my grades and data provided on past call-backs)
SA class-size
Percentage of past classes given offers
Practice areas (are there well-regarded areas, ie areas likely to continue getting work?)
Culture (actually important to me)
Viability (I checked out whether the firms seem managed well and whether they are working)
Salary
Billables
Associate/Partner ratio

I'm about to follow this up with a month of targeted cover letters in smaller markets. Joy!

Thanks como. Do you think 50% is a fair assessment of the percentage of students who will land jobs through this three part series? And if so, what of the other 50%? Mom's basement? Hard liquor? JDU?

[let/them/eat/cake]

Any rising 2Ls have any information on upcoming OCI (i.e. # of firms)?

Does Ithaca's rural nature divert emphasis away from OCI?

Willing to comment on your personal preparation?

I didn't count, but there are something like 60-70 firms going to the August Job Fair, another 20ish going to OCI, and then another 30ish with all the other job fairs combined.

The rural nature presumably does keep firms away, that's why we have to trek to the city for a three-day job fair in mid-August.

I've put probably 12 hours into research on various firms. My bid strategy took into account a few factors, in the following order of importance:

Call-back probability (based on my grades and data provided on past call-backs)
SA class-size
Percentage of past classes given offers
Practice areas (are there well-regarded areas, ie areas likely to continue getting work?)
Culture (actually important to me)
Viability (I checked out whether the firms seem managed well and whether they are working)
Salary
Billables
Associate/Partner ratio

I'm about to follow this up with a month of targeted cover letters in smaller markets. Joy!

Thanks como. Do you think 50% is a fair assessment of the percentage of students who will land jobs through this three part series? And if so, what of the other 50%? Mom's basement? Hard liquor? JDU?

well, it's been leaked, the damage is done, so i'll repost:

http://abovethelaw.com/2010/07/biglaw-e ... -a-debate/

so apparently a little over 40% for c/o 2011. I imagine c/o 2012 will be the same. I imagine c/o 2013 will at least be slightly better--but then again, that's what i thought the case would be for c/o 2012, and I've changed my tune on that one.

EDIT: FTR, and perhaps a pretty obvious statement: i would operate under the assumption it will not get better for c/o 2013. i don't want my post to come off as a tacit approval of the 50% number for the next class...

[Big Tuna]

... ...

[como]

Any rising 2Ls have any information on upcoming OCI (i.e. # of firms)?

Does Ithaca's rural nature divert emphasis away from OCI?

Willing to comment on your personal preparation?

I didn't count, but there are something like 60-70 firms going to the August Job Fair, another 20ish going to OCI, and then another 30ish with all the other job fairs combined.

The rural nature presumably does keep firms away, that's why we have to trek to the city for a three-day job fair in mid-August.

I've put probably 12 hours into research on various firms. My bid strategy took into account a few factors, in the following order of importance:

Call-back probability (based on my grades and data provided on past call-backs)
SA class-size
Percentage of past classes given offers
Practice areas (are there well-regarded areas, ie areas likely to continue getting work?)
Culture (actually important to me)
Viability (I checked out whether the firms seem managed well and whether they are working)
Salary
Billables
Associate/Partner ratio

I'm about to follow this up with a month of targeted cover letters in smaller markets. Joy!

Thanks como. Do you think 50% is a fair assessment of the percentage of students who will land jobs through this three part series? And if so, what of the other 50%? Mom's basement? Hard liquor? JDU?

well, it's been leaked, the damage is done, so i'll repost:

http://abovethelaw.com/2010/07/biglaw-e ... -a-debate/

so apparently a little over 40% for c/o 2011. I imagine c/o 2012 will be the same. I imagine c/o 2013 will at least be slightly better--but then again, that's what i thought the case would be for c/o 2012, and I've changed my tune on that one.

EDIT: FTR, and perhaps a pretty obvious statement: i would operate under the assumption it will not get better for c/o 2013. i don't want my post to come off as a tacit approval of the 50% number for the next class...

Wow, what a d-bag to post that. Although, the information should be clear to everyone by now: DO NOT ENTER LAW SCHOOL WITH THE EXPECTATION YOU WILL GET BIGLAW. However, I know we're talking to compulsive gamblers here that really can't bear the impulse to "beat the odds" by ignoring the statistics and plopping money on the long-shot. It is just insane to think you're special enough to be the exception to the rule. And the rule is: NO BIGLAW.

Also, law school and the legal community in general is full of a bunch of losers. I'm not so sure I'm even into it anymore. I guess I'll know whether I have a summer offer by September. How late for a refund?

[let/them/eat/cake]

... ...

while i wholeheartedly endorse what como just posted ^, i've got to say that i'm surprised the c/o 2011 did that well. i thought that shit would be cut in half from normal numbers. it looks like it decreased by about a third, but keep in mind, a third off of boom-era hiring. i haven't done it but i imagine the hiring from 2001 to 2004 was probably similar to what it is now. if anyone investigates, let us know.

[afghan007]

... ...

while i wholeheartedly endorse what como just posted ^, i've got to say that i'm surprised the c/o 2011 did that well. i thought that shit would be cut in half from normal numbers. it looks like it decreased by about a third, but keep in mind, a third off of boom-era hiring. i haven't done it but i imagine the hiring from 2001 to 2004 was probably similar to what it is now. if anyone investigates, let us know.

I certainly don't believe that the ATL article validates the doomsday prognoses that dominate this forum and others. The economy is struggling, and hiring, as expected, is down. The disconnect and subsequent panic seems to stem from people who don't associate the legal profession with the economy in general.

40% of the Class of 2011 has BIGLAW SA positions in the so-called Great Recession. Now that certainly leaves plenty of phenomenal students out in the cold, but certainly not without prospects. [/rosy outlook]

[como]

... ...

while i wholeheartedly endorse what como just posted ^, i've got to say that i'm surprised the c/o 2011 did that well. i thought that shit would be cut in half from normal numbers. it looks like it decreased by about a third, but keep in mind, a third off of boom-era hiring. i haven't done it but i imagine the hiring from 2001 to 2004 was probably similar to what it is now. if anyone investigates, let us know.

I certainly don't believe that the ATL article validates the doomsday prognoses that dominate this forum and others. The economy is struggling, and hiring, as expected, is down. The disconnect and subsequent panic seems to stem from people who don't associate the legal profession with the economy in general.

40% of the Class of 2011 has BIGLAW SA positions in the so-called Great Recession. Now that certainly leaves plenty of phenomenal students out in the cold, but certainly not without prospects. [/rosy outlook]

The thing is: law school is EXPENSIVE. I'm not crying "whaa no biglaw" because I wanna be rich. I NEED biglaw to break even. That's how this whole fucking industry is set up. It is a real problem when the economy is down and partners hold onto their dollars.

That is why everyone is panicking.

Also, it's not doomsday we're talking about. We're talking about today and tomorrow...very real temporal concepts.

[Big Tuna]

Isn't that what IBR is for?

[como]

Isn't that what IBR is for?

What's IBR?

[Big Tuna]

income-based repayment for loans.

[como]

income-based repayment for loans.

Don't know. If it's anything like most public programs, most of us will probably fall right into the no-man's land between comfortable wages and qualification for the IBR program.

[sheltron5000]

income-based repayment for loans.

Don't know. If it's anything like most public programs, most of us will probably fall right into the no-man's land between comfortable wages and qualification for the IBR program.

Good luck finding the rosie mid-pay range in law. I'm not going to take the time to dig out a chart, but law jobs are famous for having a U-shaped salary range. lots of jobs in the 20–40k range, lots of jobs in the 100k+ range, VERY little in the middle.

[let/them/eat/cake]

income-based repayment for loans.

Don't know. If it's anything like most public programs, most of us will probably fall right into the no-man's land between comfortable wages and qualification for the IBR program.

Good luck finding the rosie mid-pay range in law. I'm not going to take the time to dig out a chart, but law jobs are famous for having a U-shaped salary range. lots of jobs in the 20–40k range, lots of jobs in the 100k+ range, VERY little in the middle.

what sheltron is referring to is the bi-modal salary distribution for starting salaries for lawyers upon graduation.

http://www.elsblog.org/the_empirical_le ... avath.html

[mbw]

income-based repayment for loans.

Don't know. If it's anything like most public programs, most of us will probably fall right into the no-man's land between comfortable wages and qualification for the IBR program.

Good luck finding the rosie mid-pay range in law. I'm not going to take the time to dig out a chart, but law jobs are famous for having a U-shaped salary range. lots of jobs in the 20–40k range, lots of jobs in the 100k+ range, VERY little in the middle.

Well, government jobs... although, there are relatively few plum ones and those are as difficult to get as BigLaw... Of course, there are the not-so-plum ones, but they often require additional experience and/or education.

[como]

income-based repayment for loans.

Don't know. If it's anything like most public programs, most of us will probably fall right into the no-man's land between comfortable wages and qualification for the IBR program.

Good luck finding the rosie mid-pay range in law. I'm not going to take the time to dig out a chart, but law jobs are famous for having a U-shaped salary range. lots of jobs in the 20–40k range, lots of jobs in the 100k+ range, VERY little in the middle.

I was referring to the problem of IBR qualification. The range I'm talking about is not rosie, precisely because it is too much for IBR and not enough for comfort.

[legallybrunette16]

Not sure if this is somewhere else in the thread.... but, can any of you give advice about textbooks? Should we buy everything assigned? Are there cheaper places/methods? Anything will be helpful!