Columbia students taking questions Forum

[jbagelboy]

Just to add a little diversity of perspective, I think 1 hour of reading per one hour of class can be a bit low, especially if you are trying to brief or take notes (which I normally don't do, but people have been known to...), and Sunday night - Wednesday I am always working way past 6PM on class. Last night I was reading till 1:30AM, and on some week nights that's hardly unusual although its a lot better with moot court over and job search done. The 1-hr match can be true for some classes, but for Civ Pro first semester for example, one class was regularly 2+ hours of reading, same with elective and property this semester (and this isn't just me).

Tiaggo has a good work-life balance. If everyone followed his rubric, then we would certainly have a happier student body. I don't think most people can, for whatever reasons either personal or academic. Weeks vary in rigor, especially if you are active on club boards, do a competitive moot court, and in the early spring when you are applying for jobs/interviews/CB's. I've had some rough weeks, and very pleasant ones. It can be taxing, but that's 1L.

Columbia isn't more competitive than other top law schools. We definitely get out a lot more than some (cough, Chicago and Harvard). Also, the city lends itself to "doing shit outside class." Fear of competition or any kind of bullshit stereotype definitely isn't a reason to not come to Columbia - we have fun - but it's way, way more time consuming than undergrad, at least for me, and I went to a tough UG with a tough major, so I wouldn't deceive yourself into thinking otherwise. As the others have said, come in expecting it to be hell, and then be pleasantly surprised when it's just marginally overwhelming.

[Theopliske8711]

As the others have said, come in expecting it to be hell, and then be pleasantly surprised when it's just marginally overwhelming.

You guys aren't helping us out in that regard.

[Tiago Splitter]

I agree with all of the above. The reason I liked to get some of my reading done on the weekends before class is because things do come up during the week. Sometimes professors won't provide the full week's worth of reading until after the weekend is over, and other times your friend just really wants to finish off his beer card at Mel's and you can't turn that down even on a Wednesday. You just really don't want to fall way behind because there is a lot of material and trying to play catch up is difficult.

[Tiago Splitter]

As the others have said, come in expecting it to be hell, and then be pleasantly surprised when it's just marginally overwhelming.

You guys aren't helping us out in that regard.

Haha yeah now I feel kind of bad. Seriously, if there's only one book you read make it "1L" by Scott Turow. It will scare you into submission. Damn thing kept me away from law school for years.

[smaug_]

Just to add a little diversity of perspective, I think 1 hour of reading per one hour of class can be a bit low, especially if you are trying to brief or take notes (which I normally don't do, but people have been known to...), and Sunday night - Wednesday I am always working way past 6PM on class. Last night I was reading till 1:30AM, and on some week nights that's hardly unusual although its a lot better with moot court over and job search done. The 1-hr match can be true for some classes, but for Civ Pro first semester for example, one class was regularly 2+ hours of reading, same with elective and property this semester (and this isn't just me).

Tiaggo has a good work-life balance. If everyone followed his rubric, then we would certainly have a happier student body. I don't think most people can, for whatever reasons either personal or academic. Weeks vary in rigor, especially if you are active on club boards, do a competitive moot court, and in the early spring when you are applying for jobs/interviews/CB's. I've had some rough weeks, and very pleasant ones. It can be taxing, but that's 1L.

Columbia isn't more competitive than other top law schools. We definitely get out a lot more than some (cough, Chicago and Harvard). Also, the city lends itself to "doing shit outside class." Fear of competition or any kind of bullshit stereotype definitely isn't a reason to not come to Columbia - we have fun - but it's way, way more time consuming than undergrad, at least for me, and I went to a tough UG with a tough major, so I wouldn't deceive yourself into thinking otherwise. As the others have said, come in expecting it to be hell, and then be pleasantly surprised when it's just marginally overwhelming.

I guess I just disagree. 1L was less time consuming than undergrad and "rough" weeks really weren't that rough. 2L is far worse in terms of how busy I am/how much time I have. The difference is that I'm not terrified and that I can choose to deviate from my schedule if I want to.

[bowser]

Just to add a little diversity of perspective, I think 1 hour of reading per one hour of class can be a bit low, especially if you are trying to brief or take notes (which I normally don't do, but people have been known to...), and Sunday night - Wednesday I am always working way past 6PM on class. Last night I was reading till 1:30AM, and on some week nights that's hardly unusual although its a lot better with moot court over and job search done. The 1-hr match can be true for some classes, but for Civ Pro first semester for example, one class was regularly 2+ hours of reading, same with elective and property this semester (and this isn't just me).

Tiaggo has a good work-life balance. If everyone followed his rubric, then we would certainly have a happier student body. I don't think most people can, for whatever reasons either personal or academic. Weeks vary in rigor, especially if you are active on club boards, do a competitive moot court, and in the early spring when you are applying for jobs/interviews/CB's. I've had some rough weeks, and very pleasant ones. It can be taxing, but that's 1L.

Columbia isn't more competitive than other top law schools. We definitely get out a lot more than some (cough, Chicago and Harvard). Also, the city lends itself to "doing shit outside class." Fear of competition or any kind of bullshit stereotype definitely isn't a reason to not come to Columbia - we have fun - but it's way, way more time consuming than undergrad, at least for me, and I went to a tough UG with a tough major, so I wouldn't deceive yourself into thinking otherwise. As the others have said, come in expecting it to be hell, and then be pleasantly surprised when it's just marginally overwhelming.

I guess I just disagree. 1L was less time consuming than undergrad and "rough" weeks really weren't that rough. 2L is far worse in terms of how busy I am/how much time I have. The difference is that I'm not terrified and that I can choose to deviate from my schedule if I want to.

I have disliked 2L intensely. But if you're really of the mindset that all you care about is getting a job at EIP, you can make it easier on yourself---get on an easy journal (standards---only puts out 1 or 2 issues a year, and does not require a Note), turn down research opportunities, don't be super involved in leadership roles on student orgs.

[ph5354a]

Between class, reading, and basic LPW assignments, I've been doing about 50 hours of law school per week (14 hours of class, maybe 16 hours of reading, rest divided between supplements, review, and LPW stuff). I try to have one day completely off per weekend, and a lighter day on Fridays. That all changes about 4-6 weeks before finals. But, for the first two months of the semester, it's beautiful.

[papercut]

I don't know much about DC hiring, but you can see from the EIP results that DC firms tend to be pretty underbid, and a lot of them come to EIP. So you should be able to get a lot of interviews and still use your primary bids on safer NYC options. This also suggests the interest in DC isn't terribly high, although that could be a sort of chicken-and-egg thing with people not being interested because they think the grade requirements are too high.

https://web.law.columbia.edu/sites/defa ... s-2012.pdf

Do you know how good these results are compared to the last few years? What's the general feeling about hiring at CLS?

Thanks!

[smaug_]

Do you know how good these results are compared to the last few years? What's the general feeling about hiring at CLS?

Thanks!

Things are good but it can still be feast or famine. Legal hiring is a strange beast and you can't really tell (well, you can kinda tell) who is going to have issues. Most everyone (but not everyone) I know who wanted biglaw will be summering with a biglaw firm. At this point I think being weird/having an off-putting personality would be one's biggest hindrance at Columbia.

Most people are more concerned about which firm they will be working for than whether they will be working at a firm.

[papercut]

Do you know how good these results are compared to the last few years? What's the general feeling about hiring at CLS?

Thanks!

Things are good but it can still be feast or famine. Legal hiring is a strange beast and you can't really tell (well, you can kinda tell) who is going to have issues. Most everyone (but not everyone) I know who wanted biglaw will be summering with a biglaw firm. At this point I think being weird/having an off-putting personality would be one's biggest hindrance at Columbia.

Most people are more concerned about which firm they will be working for than whether they will be working at a firm.

Thanks for the response. That's a helpful perspective.

[Theopliske8711]

At this point, it's highly likely that I will end up at CLS. I am considering possibly staying with my parents to save money, at least for 1L; otherwise, I am considering a room in Harlem. Trouble is that they live in Edgwater, NJ (literally across the river from Columbia). It would take me about an hour to get to class. How is the 1L schedule generally like? Is it very early?

[smaug_]

At this point, it's highly likely that I will end up at CLS. I am considering possibly staying with my parents to save money, at least for 1L; otherwise, I am considering a room in Harlem. Trouble is that they live in Edgwater, NJ (literally across the river from Columbia). It would take me about an hour to get to class. How is the 1L schedule generally like? Is it very early?

You'll likely have 9 a.m. classes.

Not sure if you consider that early or not.

[Theopliske8711]

Not particularly early. I had a similar work schedule, but I had to shower and get properly dressed. I was afraid of 8am. The only thing is that I am legitimately terrified of the GWB.

[JVK]

Not particularly early. I had a similar work schedule, but I had to shower and get properly dressed. I was afraid of 8am. The only thing is that I am legitimately terrified of the GWB.

9:10 a.m.'s typically the start time, at least a couple times per week! That's when Legal Methods started each day, and I'd be surprised if you didn't have one class per semester starting then (likely 2-3 times per week).

Some classes do have an 8 a.m. start time, but they're rare, and I honestly don't think there are any for 1L's this year.

If you get one, it's because the teacher has an outside job and 8 a.m. was the only way they could fit class into their schedule. Case #1 - Lynch, a Criminal Law professor, is a judge on the Second Circuit. Last year (or the year before?), he taught at 8 a.m., but this year he's got a late afternoon time slot. I can't think of any other professors teaching core classes that you'd have that risk with. Perhaps someone teaching an elective spring semester, but that's it, and you'd know the time slot when you sign up for it (late in the fall).

If you can consistently be at the law school by 9:10, you'll be alright.

[banjo]

Not particularly early. I had a similar work schedule, but I had to shower and get properly dressed. I was afraid of 8am. The only thing is that I am legitimately terrified of the GWB.

I don't think it's worth it for your first year. That bridge is too unpredictable. Throughout your 1L year there will be times when it's helpful to run home for dinner before coming back, or to change, or just for a quick nap. You'll want to be around for social events on weekends too.

Edit: And even if you drive in on Fridays/weekends, you have to worry about alternate side parking and pay that absurd GWB toll.

[MCFC]

I believe there are a few LPW sections that are meeting at 8am this semester, again because of the instructor's schedules.

[papercut]

This has probably been asked already, but...

What's the social scene like during 1L? What do people do together? What are the parties like? Is there a go to CLS bar?

[Humbert Humbert]

This has probably been asked already, but...

What's the social scene like during 1L? What do people do together? What are the parties like? Is there a go to CLS bar?

Also wondering this.

[smaug_]

This has probably been asked already, but...

What's the social scene like during 1L? What do people do together? What are the parties like? Is there a go to CLS bar?

Also wondering this.

I don't think there's anything really unique to say? Bar review is on Thursday nights. Attendance varies on the location and timing. I'd say there are social people and people who you never see. I think people form friends through shared interests, classes and student groups.

It's not really that different form anything else???

[jbagelboy]

This has probably been asked already, but...

What's the social scene like during 1L? What do people do together? What are the parties like? Is there a go to CLS bar?

Also wondering this.

I don't think there's anything really unique to say? Bar review is on Thursday nights. Attendance varies on the location and timing. I'd say there are social people and people who you never see. I think people form friends through shared interests, classes and student groups.

It's not really that different form anything else???

All this.

And there are CLS students that go out a lot (especially early in the semester), if that's what you're wondering. It's not a boring class in my experience.

Although in theory there's no reason this couldn't change from year to year..?

[Humbert Humbert]

This has probably been asked already, but...

What's the social scene like during 1L? What do people do together? What are the parties like? Is there a go to CLS bar?

Also wondering this.

I don't think there's anything really unique to say? Bar review is on Thursday nights. Attendance varies on the location and timing. I'd say there are social people and people who you never see. I think people form friends through shared interests, classes and student groups.

It's not really that different form anything else???

All this.

And there are CLS students that go out a lot (especially early in the semester), if that's what you're wondering. It's not a boring class in my experience.

Although in theory there's no reason this couldn't change from year to year..?

Thanks. As far as bars/going out goes, do most students stay in the neighborhood or do they go further downtown? Also, total 0L question: what is bar review?

[lunaraeon]

Thanks. As far as bars/going out goes, do most students stay in the neighborhood or do they go further downtown? Also, total 0L question: what is bar review?

Bar Review is a weekly bar event every Thursday. A small group of students in charge of it decide on a location and organize it, generally with some sort of drink deal and sometimes with exclusivity for us.

To your first question, depends on the student and what they feel like doing. Some people are super lazy and barely make it down the street (like me), some people go to Brooklyn on the regular. As with any group of hundreds of students, there's more variation in tastes than places to go out to.

[Humbert Humbert]

Thanks. As far as bars/going out goes, do most students stay in the neighborhood or do they go further downtown? Also, total 0L question: what is bar review?

Bar Review is a weekly bar event every Thursday. A small group of students in charge of it decide on a location and organize it, generally with some sort of drink deal and sometimes with exclusivity for us.

To your first question, depends on the student and what they feel like doing. Some people are super lazy and barely make it down the street (like me), some people go to Brooklyn on the regular. As with any group of hundreds of students, there's more variation in tastes than places to go out to.

Thanks.

What is the general opinion on TA positions? Worthwhile? Pros/cons?

[tkim129]

What is the general opinion on TA positions? Worthwhile? Pros/cons?

You usually have to get an A in that Professor's class or in an equivalent class if the Professor is teaching it for the first time or hasn't taught it for a few years. I've heard that it's worth it to do at least once if you have the opportunity, especially if you want to lock down a solid letter for clerkship applications.

So focus on getting an A first and worry about being a TA later.
--
About the social scene, you get whatever you want to put into it. There's always school sponsored drinking events, both free and paid. If there's an open bar, you'll definitely see me there. On average, I try to go out one night a week (usually Thursdays and usually at Pourhouse), but a decent amount of my friends will go out more often than that. I also have an SO that I go out with at least once a week as well. If budget your time well, work-life balance at Columbia is definitely manageable.

[Theopliske8711]

Btw, there is no chance that CLS offers student MTA cards, do they?