WUSTL Recent Grad (and others) Taking Questions Forum

[Stephanie13]

Thanks for the honest response Romo. Yeah I'm not too sure I would be happy in the Midwest, even in wonderful Chicago, but I'm also not exactly an autoadmit for WUSTL's peer schools on the coasts either. If I don't get into a good school on the coasts then I figure that my chances at coastal biglaw from WUSTL will still be better than my chances from a #43 on the coast.

Peg, that was my reasoning as well when I chose WUSTL. I was dealing with either going to WUSTL or to a much lower ranked school in the geographic area that I wanted to practice. I believe that WUSTL is a great school and can give you the opportunities to get to where you want but like Romo said, you do need to hustle a bit (do your own leg work) and get good grades. I am happy with my decision to come to WUSTL but I think that if I had not gotten the grades that I have gotten, I may not feel the same way. There is a lot to be said about making good grades to help you get to where you want to be. But getting good grades is never guaranteed. Only 10% of your class can be in the top 10%. Seems obvious and dumb but it should be emphasized.

[Peg]

Peg, that was my reasoning as well when I chose WUSTL. I was dealing with either going to WUSTL or to a much lower ranked school in the geographic area that I wanted to practice. I believe that WUSTL is a great school and can give you the opportunities to get to where you want but like Romo said, you do need to hustle a bit (do your own leg work) and get good grades. I am happy with my decision to come to WUSTL but I think that if I had not gotten the grades that I have gotten, I may not feel the same way. There is a lot to be said about making good grades to help you get to where you want to be. But getting good grades is never guaranteed. Only 10% of your class can be in the top 10%. Seems obvious and dumb but it should be emphasized.

Exactly. And what I think is, you need top grades at any school, even those higher-ranked than WUSTL, to be considered for Biglaw. I think it's really only HYS that will allow you to be a slacker and still get callbacks from firms. So even if I get into BU/BC, I can expect to work as hard to reach that 10% as I would at WUSTL.

Not that I'm going to get into BU/BC, but I was just saying. That's why I'm seriously considering WUSTL.

[modmx]

Anyone WUSTL students want to chip in and give some opinions and advice about where/how to find housing near the law school?

[romothesavior]

Anyone WUSTL students want to chip in and give some opinions and advice about where/how to find housing near the law school?

Most importantly, when you visit, spend more than just a day here. Give yourself a day to go look around at neighborhoods, even if you aren't looking at specific apartments. The school does some stuff in the summer for housing, but I think the earlier you get on it, the better.

The best resource I found for searching for an apartment was padmapper.com. As far as neighborhoods go, here is a map to help you follow along with what I'm saying:



(This map comes from Wash U's 1L student blog, which I highly encourage you all to read.)

I live in Skinker-DeBaliviere and I love it. It is close enough to school that I can occasionally walk, and it is right by a Metro station so I can get around fairly easily if I don't want to drive. I have my car here, but I decided not to drive to school this year. I figure I'll save around $1,000 a year by not spending money on a parking pass, gas, and maintenance on my vehicle. I also like the neighborhood because I am close enough to the Loop to go out and eat/drink quite easily, but I'm not right in the thick of things.

A decent number of people also live in the U-City Loop. The map is actually a little off with its location for the Loop... the Loop is directly north of campus on Delmar. Delmar can be sketchy in some areas (I don't think I've ever been to the Skinker-Delmar Shell station without being asked for money), and north of Delmar is kinda rough, but there are some pretty good, cheap places along the Loop. The Loop is a fun area with places to eat and drink.

Another area you might wanna try if you want to be close to campus is just west of campus. There are some great houses and small apartments and it is a very safe, older residential area. I know a few people who live there and walk, and it works out well because the law building is on the northwest corner of campus. Finally, if you want to be close to campus, Skinker (just west of the park) is a good area to look in. It may be a little far to walk since AB Hall is on the complete other side of campus, but it is a great area.

If you are willing to be a little farther from campus, many (maybe most) law and grad students live in Central West End. This is a really nice area with some great apartments, and good places to eat and drink. It way too far to walk, so you'd either have to take the Metro or drive to school (although a few weeks ago one of my buddies walked 2.8 miles in the snow from his apartment to mine... sooo yeah). CWE is where the majority of my extracurricular activities (see: drinking cold, refreshing beer) takes place.

Finally, Clayton (just west of WUSTL) is a wonderful town and it is only a 5-10 minute drive to campus. There is a lot of commerce in downtown Clayton, and there are plenty of bars and restaurants. I think you are probably going to be looking at a higher price in Clayton than in most places, though.

For those of you coming in from NYC/DC/LA etc., you are going to be absolutely blown away by the low COL. I pay $500 a month ($1,000 total, since I have a roommate) for a fully-furnished, really nice apartment with new furniture, appliances, and a washer/dryer unit in the apartment. The most I've heard of anyone spending is $1,000 a month, but they have a really swanky place in CWE. You can easily keep your rent in the 500-600 range if you take on a roommate (which I actually recommend, though there are different schools of thought on this), and if you're paying over 750 a month, you're in the expensive range.

[Peg]

That's a really useful map Romo, thanks.

So I'm leaning towards WUSTL more and more in light of recent dings and the possibility of scholly offer at WUSTL. I have two questions that have nothing to do with jobs or academics.

1) Could you tell me a little more about the student body? Like what kind of undergraduate colleges do they tend to come from, what cities, and do they have really different backgrounds? I really want to be in as international/cosmopolitan a school as possible. I did know a girl who went to WUSTL's famous med school, and her roommates included a trilingual Lebanese American who had done his undergrad at Cambridge and was originally from NYC, and an Indian American from California. So I was just curious about how diverse the law school student body is in comparison.

2) What is the relationship between the school and the city? Depending on who I talk to or what TLS thread I read, the locals either resent WUSTL because the student body is from out of town and never stays in the area, or are proud of the school because it's so well respected. I also know, from a friend who goes to law school at SLU, that the locals are kind of clannish and cliquey - like it's all about "Which high school did you go to?" and "Which neighborhood/suburb do you live in?" - and mistrustful of outsiders.

In fact, this is something I found on an old TLS thread:

We adore the university being here, because we are very proud of our city and like that it is such a highly ranked and respected school. On the other hand, I don't have a single friend or acquaintance under the age of 40 who attended WUSTL, whereas most of the people I know over 40 did attend WUSTL. We love the school, but the students are no longer from the area, nor do they usually stay here. That's a huge change in the last generation or two, because in the past everyone from certain neighborhoods went there. So we love the school, but we don't really know the students anymore. Instead of it being "our" school, we are now the "townies", and that is a huge cultural shift. Hence the feeling of resent/dislike.

What do you think?

[romothesavior]

Peg,

1) Here is Class of 2013 profile: http://law.wustl.edu/admissions/documen ... rofile.pdf. I'll also add that a lot of our diversity comes from our LLM program. In Contracts last semester, I sat next to a student from France and a student form Cameroon. We had a lot of interesting conversations about the differences in culture and law between the countries. WUSTL (both the law school and especially the undergrad) has a huge population of Asian international students. With that said, St. Louis isn't New York City. It isn't the crossroads of culture or a cosmopolitan paradise or anything like that. But there is a pretty diverse crowd at the school, especially international students.

2) WUSTL is by far the best school in the city and it is respected as such by the community and the region. My undergrad friends from St. Louis were all really impressed by my WUSTL acceptance (even more than my Georgetown, Cornell, or Vanderbilt acceptances) because they really think WUSTL is the bee's knees. (Although, these are also the types of people who think law school is a path to riches.) I do think that there is a bit of an "outsider" label placed on the student body since so many students are from elsewhere, but there are also a lot of midwesterners and St. Louis locals. If you look at any of the local NLJ 250 offices here, Wash U is always well represented (usually with the majority of the lawyers). I do agree that St. Louis is kind of cliquey, and I've heard the high school question many times. It kind of annoys me since I'm not really that much of an outsider (a little over two hours away), but you get used to it after a while.

[Peg]

Thanks again, yeah I figured it wouldn't be metropolis-diverse, but what you describe is good enough. At this point I think I've learned everything I can from interrogating people, but I think I like it. Now I just hope I get good $$$ from them.

[Hannibal]

That post about housing was fantastic. This vs. UIUC is going to be a hard damn decision.

[JCougar]

I got into WUSTL yesterday, but didn't check my inbox because I was living in fear of ding emails, but anyway now I'm really excited! So I had an employment question.

Everyone on TLS says WUSTL grads can, at best, expect a shot at Chicago firms. I check NALP: DLE for WUSTL and it's listed firms from Boston, DC, NYC, and the Bay Area, and in not-insignificant numbers. Why would so many East Coast and West Coast firms waste their time interviewing WUSTL grads if they had no intention of hiring them? I really want to practice on the coasts myself (originally from EC here), so I've been worried about TLS saying that WUSTL has to compete with the T14 and Notre Dame to get firms on the coasts, and fails at it.

Sorry if this question has already been brought up on the thread, I didn't look.

Thanks romo/anyone else who is answering!

Peg:

The firms listed on the NALP directory are firms that do OCI. Resume collects and off-campus job fairs are in addition to those listed on NALP as doing campus interviews. Also, keep in mind that those NALP directory numbers are from the OCI 1.5 years ago (2009). This was the absolute bottom of the legal job market. Hiring has ticked up since then, albeit slightly. NALP has yet to update the OCI listings to this last summer (2010), and such a list should list more firms.

The NALP directory is simply fact. It's maintained by the law firms themselves (and not the schools), so it's pretty trustworthy. If the firms say they do OCI at WUSTL on there, that means they are really here.

I've spoken to some 2Ls that did OCI this summer, and the hiring wasn't great, but it was better than 2009. Also, if you are in the top third here, you should be able to get at least a few interviews. Callbacks are another story. Coastal firms interview here because people from the coasts go to school here. I think around 10% of the class is from California, which means there's plenty of talented CA people here looking to move back...so of course those firms will want to interview here. Same thing with NY.

On TLS, there's generally a fair amount of trolling about how this school is regional, but that's simply not true. Our CSO is well-funded, and our Career Services Dean works very, very hard. WUSTL is probably more national than most of its peers simply because the student body coming in is more national (which is the result of the St. Louis legal market not being all that big). Our peers such as BU, Fordham, Illinois, Minnesota, GW...and even our slight superiors such as Texas, UCLA, and USC all have a fairly large home-state contingent that only looks to place in the local market. There is a good number of people from the Chicago area here, but there's also people from all over.

With that said, I wouldn't enter law school banking on getting a job through OCI. At all but the very best schools these days, less than half the class will get a job at OCI. WUSTL has a fairly large amount of regional interview programs though that let you interview for midlaw or smaller firms in your home market. It's the non-OCI jobs where the strength of your CSO matters most, and we have a good one.

[JCougar]

That post about housing was fantastic. This vs. UIUC is going to be a hard damn decision.

I really liked the people at Illinois when I went out there to visit, but St. Louis is leagues more fun than Urbana-Champaign. That was basically the tie-breaker for me (well, that and the fact that I never got off the waitlist at Illinois...but after I got in to WUSTL, I stopped trying).

[Law Sauce]

I really like WUSTL from all I've seen. But, it is a difficult choice for me because I have higher ranked options. If you guys had higher ranked options, what made you choose WUSTL. Also, is it possible to get to Denver from WUSTL, I don't really have ties, could I build that up during summers?

Edit: I have read what you wrote Romo, so I didnt mean to ask you to tell your whole story again. Thanks a lot for all your work BTW. You have been very helpful.

[romothesavior]

I really like WUSTL from all I've seen. But, it is a difficult choice for me because I have higher ranked options. If you guys had higher ranked options, what made you choose WUSTL. Also, is it possible to get to Denver from WUSTL, I don't really have ties, could I build that up during summers?

I had higher ranked options (GULC and Cornell) as well as some better overall packages (Vandy w/$$ and UIUC w/$$$$) and I passed them up because I want to practice in St. Louis. I have no interest in DC or NYC and I want to be in the Midwest, so paying sticker at GULC or Cornell made no sense to me. I also really felt a lot more comfortable at WUSTL than I did at UIUC or Vandy. I loved Vandy when I visited and I am a die-hard Illinois fan and lifelong native of central Illinois, but I just needed to get out of the cornfields. I'm happy with my decision.

I'll be honest, getting to Denver from WUSTL (or from any school) is going to be hard without ties. We do have alumni there and firms who recruit WUSTL students, but it is not easy. What is drawing you to Denver? Summering there would help, but even if you go to a higher ranked school, how do you plan to show your commitment and interest in Denver?

[chrisbru]

I really like WUSTL from all I've seen. But, it is a difficult choice for me because I have higher ranked options. If you guys had higher ranked options, what made you choose WUSTL. Also, is it possible to get to Denver from WUSTL, I don't really have ties, could I build that up during summers?

Edit: I have read what you wrote Romo, so I didnt mean to ask you to tell your whole story again. Thanks a lot for all your work BTW. You have been very helpful.

Not to butt in here... But unless WUSTL is cheaper than CU for you (unlikely), then why would you pick WUSTL over CU if you know you want to practice in Denver?

[Law Sauce]

I really like WUSTL from all I've seen. But, it is a difficult choice for me because I have higher ranked options. If you guys had higher ranked options, what made you choose WUSTL. Also, is it possible to get to Denver from WUSTL, I don't really have ties, could I build that up during summers?

Edit: I have read what you wrote Romo, so I didnt mean to ask you to tell your whole story again. Thanks a lot for all your work BTW. You have been very helpful.

Not to butt in here... But unless WUSTL is cheaper than CU for you (unlikely), then why would you pick WUSTL over CU if you know you want to practice in Denver?

Big Scholarship = likely cheaper (also the school itself is really sweet, the bright-future kool aid of wustl)

also scholarship at wustl cannot be lost = less risky (at CU you can lose the scholarships if you are not in top half or whatever)

CU is still in it. haven't received scholarship yet. Other options are also pulling me up the rankings, honestly wustl may be a good compromise. And I am also not 100% about Denver. just very interested.

Edited to say that I am not sure why you wrote this because it seems that WUSTL is cheaper for you as well

[Law Sauce]

I really like WUSTL from all I've seen. But, it is a difficult choice for me because I have higher ranked options. If you guys had higher ranked options, what made you choose WUSTL. Also, is it possible to get to Denver from WUSTL, I don't really have ties, could I build that up during summers?

I had higher ranked options (GULC and Cornell) as well as some better overall packages (Vandy w/$$ and UIUC w/$$$$) and I passed them up because I want to practice in St. Louis. I have no interest in DC or NYC and I want to be in the Midwest, so paying sticker at GULC or Cornell made no sense to me. I also really felt a lot more comfortable at WUSTL than I did at UIUC or Vandy. I loved Vandy when I visited and I am a die-hard Illinois fan and lifelong native of central Illinois, but I just needed to get out of the cornfields. I'm happy with my decision.

I'll be honest, getting to Denver from WUSTL (or from any school) is going to be hard without ties. We do have alumni there and firms who recruit WUSTL students, but it is not easy. What is drawing you to Denver? Summering there would help, but even if you go to a higher ranked school, how do you plan to show your commitment and interest in Denver?

I lived there for one summer and my SO and I love it there. I have some family so I've been there a lot. I really just love the area and the mountains. These arent really ties and I am not sure I want to be there. Just wondering if that was even possible.

I am not sure, but I thought that possibly summering there could help, or over bidding on Denver to prove my CO love. It may be naive but I think that if I was truly passionate about going to CO I would be able to get that through to a potential employer. Maybe not though. Or I could just do well and they to get a CO clerkship, even a less prestigious one. Im not sure, if any of these are possible though. Like I said, I am not committed that I definitely want to end up there. I was just wondering...

[stratocophic]

I really like WUSTL from all I've seen. But, it is a difficult choice for me because I have higher ranked options. If you guys had higher ranked options, what made you choose WUSTL. Also, is it possible to get to Denver from WUSTL, I don't really have ties, could I build that up during summers?

I had higher ranked options (GULC and Cornell) as well as some better overall packages (Vandy w/$$ and UIUC w/$$$$) and I passed them up because I want to practice in St. Louis. I have no interest in DC or NYC and I want to be in the Midwest, so paying sticker at GULC or Cornell made no sense to me. I also really felt a lot more comfortable at WUSTL than I did at UIUC or Vandy. I loved Vandy when I visited and I am a die-hard Illinois fan and lifelong native of central Illinois, but I just needed to get out of the cornfields. I'm happy with my decision.

I'll be honest, getting to Denver from WUSTL (or from any school) is going to be hard without ties. We do have alumni there and firms who recruit WUSTL students, but it is not easy. What is drawing you to Denver? Summering there would help, but even if you go to a higher ranked school, how do you plan to show your commitment and interest in Denver?

I lived there for one summer and my SO and I love it there. I have some family so I've been there a lot. I really just love the area and the mountains. These arent really ties and I am not sure I want to be there. Just wondering if that was even possible.

I am not sure, but I thought that possibly summering there could help, or over bidding on Denver to prove my CO love. It may be naive but I think that if I was truly passionate about going to CO I would be able to get that through to a potential employer. Maybe not though. Or I could just do well and they to get a CO clerkship, even a less prestigious one. Im not sure, if any of these are possible though. Like I said, I am not committed that I definitely want to end up there. I was just wondering...

Family in Denver area = ties, mang. All you need is something to talk up.

[romothesavior]

Family in Denver area = ties, mang. All you need is something to talk up.

Agreed. And having lived there for a summer is an even better thing to talk up. Not as good as being from CO or going to undergrad there or something, but these are decent ties.

As to whether Boulder or WUSTL would be better for you, I really can't say. It depends on where else you might want to work, and what kind of scholly you can get.

[Law Sauce]

I really like WUSTL from all I've seen. But, it is a difficult choice for me because I have higher ranked options. If you guys had higher ranked options, what made you choose WUSTL. Also, is it possible to get to Denver from WUSTL, I don't really have ties, could I build that up during summers?

I had higher ranked options (GULC and Cornell) as well as some better overall packages (Vandy w/$$ and UIUC w/$$$$) and I passed them up because I want to practice in St. Louis. I have no interest in DC or NYC and I want to be in the Midwest, so paying sticker at GULC or Cornell made no sense to me. I also really felt a lot more comfortable at WUSTL than I did at UIUC or Vandy. I loved Vandy when I visited and I am a die-hard Illinois fan and lifelong native of central Illinois, but I just needed to get out of the cornfields. I'm happy with my decision.

I'll be honest, getting to Denver from WUSTL (or from any school) is going to be hard without ties. We do have alumni there and firms who recruit WUSTL students, but it is not easy. What is drawing you to Denver? Summering there would help, but even if you go to a higher ranked school, how do you plan to show your commitment and interest in Denver?

I lived there for one summer and my SO and I love it there. I have some family so I've been there a lot. I really just love the area and the mountains. These arent really ties and I am not sure I want to be there. Just wondering if that was even possible.

I am not sure, but I thought that possibly summering there could help, or over bidding on Denver to prove my CO love. It may be naive but I think that if I was truly passionate about going to CO I would be able to get that through to a potential employer. Maybe not though. Or I could just do well and they to get a CO clerkship, even a less prestigious one. Im not sure, if any of these are possible though. Like I said, I am not committed that I definitely want to end up there. I was just wondering...

Family in Denver area = ties, mang. All you need is something to talk up.

Not really close family. Aunts, Uncles. if that counts, then great.

[adammac17]

thanks a TON for doing this romo, ive visited wustl before and its an amazing school/campus. from what youve posted i feel like im in the same position you were last cycle, in at uiuc with slightly more $$ than wustl but also instate so it accounts for substantially less per year to go to uiuc. not to gift-mouth-horse-look but did you (or anyone) have experience negotiating for more $ for washu based on total cost of attendance between uiuc and wustl?

planning on waiting till people give up their offers to try but thought youd be the one to ask, thanks again bro

[stratocophic]

I had higher ranked options (GULC and Cornell) as well as some better overall packages (Vandy w/$$ and UIUC w/$$$$) and I passed them up because I want to practice in St. Louis. I have no interest in DC or NYC and I want to be in the Midwest, so paying sticker at GULC or Cornell made no sense to me. I also really felt a lot more comfortable at WUSTL than I did at UIUC or Vandy. I loved Vandy when I visited and I am a die-hard Illinois fan and lifelong native of central Illinois, but I just needed to get out of the cornfields. I'm happy with my decision.

I'll be honest, getting to Denver from WUSTL (or from any school) is going to be hard without ties. We do have alumni there and firms who recruit WUSTL students, but it is not easy. What is drawing you to Denver? Summering there would help, but even if you go to a higher ranked school, how do you plan to show your commitment and interest in Denver?

I lived there for one summer and my SO and I love it there. I have some family so I've been there a lot. I really just love the area and the mountains. These arent really ties and I am not sure I want to be there. Just wondering if that was even possible.

I am not sure, but I thought that possibly summering there could help, or over bidding on Denver to prove my CO love. It may be naive but I think that if I was truly passionate about going to CO I would be able to get that through to a potential employer. Maybe not though. Or I could just do well and they to get a CO clerkship, even a less prestigious one. Im not sure, if any of these are possible though. Like I said, I am not committed that I definitely want to end up there. I was just wondering...

Family in Denver area = ties, mang. All you need is something to talk up.

Not really close family. Aunts, Uncles. if that counts, then great.

From what I've heard just having friends in the area can even be good enough in some cases. As I understand it, if you're convincing and sincere about wanting to be there you'll be fine. Some other guy on here (xxSpyxx or whatever his name is) evidently managed to convince someone he wanted to be in Chicago without ever having even been in the city, IIRC.

[ClaytonR]

What's the bro culture like at WUSTL? I'm not very fratty myself but come from a big time East Coast party school (okay, Virginia) and I fit some of the more classic stereotypes.

How would I fit in?

[Hannibal]

What's the bro culture like at WUSTL? I'm not very fratty myself but come from a big time East Coast party school (okay, Virginia) and I fit some of the more classic stereotypes.

How would I fit in?

Go UIUC imo

[romothesavior]

What's the bro culture like at WUSTL? I'm not very fratty myself but come from a big time East Coast party school (okay, Virginia) and I fit some of the more classic stereotypes.

How would I fit in?

From one bromigo to another: trust me when I say you'll fit in just fine.

Granted, WUSTL isn't a "fratty" school, but once you get to law school, the desire to be fratty wears off, and you'll assume more of a mature, classy bro status (or at least I did). This isn't to say you won't get wild on occasion, I'm just saying you shouldn't expect this to be "Undergrad Round 2." I do think WUSTL Law is quite bro though, and many of my classmates dress like a good bro should (Brooks Bros, RL, Sperrys, etc.) and like to drink beer. You will definitely be able to find a group of bros you'll wanna chill with.

[ihp12]

What's the bro culture like at WUSTL? I'm not very fratty myself but come from a big time East Coast party school (okay, Virginia) and I fit some of the more classic stereotypes.

How would I fit in?

From one bromigo to another: trust me when I say you'll fit in just fine.

Granted, WUSTL isn't a "fratty" school, but once you get to law school, the desire to be fratty wears off, and you'll assume more of a mature, classy bro status (or at least I did). This isn't to say you won't get wild on occasion, I'm just saying you shouldn't expect this to be "Undergrad Round 2." I do think WUSTL Law is quite bro though, and many of my classmates dress like a good bro should (Brooks Bros, RL, Sperrys, etc.) and like to drink beer. You will definitely be able to find a group of bros you'll wanna chill with.

Its like normal bro-hood expect you un-pop the collar for class.

[ClaytonR]

What's the bro culture like at WUSTL? I'm not very fratty myself but come from a big time East Coast party school (okay, Virginia) and I fit some of the more classic stereotypes.

How would I fit in?

From one bromigo to another: trust me when I say you'll fit in just fine.

Granted, WUSTL isn't a "fratty" school, but once you get to law school, the desire to be fratty wears off, and you'll assume more of a mature, classy bro status (or at least I did). This isn't to say you won't get wild on occasion, I'm just saying you shouldn't expect this to be "Undergrad Round 2." I do think WUSTL Law is quite bro though, and many of my classmates dress like a good bro should (Brooks Bros, RL, Sperrys, etc.) and like to drink beer. You will definitely be able to find a group of bros you'll wanna chill with.

Thanks!

So I assume somewhat like UVa and Vandy but different than NU, USC, and GWU.