Columbia students taking questions Forum

[the_phoenix612]

Any older people have Heller for Property, Kendall Thomas for Conlaw, or E. Scott for Crim?

I don't think E. Scott has taught crim much (if at all) before. I had her for Property, though, and have few positive things to say about the experience. Good luck.

[girlmonster]

How relaxed is Columbia with the ASW travel stipend? I live in the South and was planning on stopping in DC and Philly to visit friends on the way. Does CLS check into your itinerary at all?

[ph5354a]

How relaxed is Columbia with the ASW travel stipend? I live in the South and was planning on stopping in DC and Philly to visit friends on the way. Does CLS check into your itinerary at all?

I believe they ask for some kind of proof of purchase and your itinerary, but that doesn't mean they won't reimburse you. I would just let them know up front that what you're doing (and be sure to clarify that your stops aren't to visit other law school, they want to make sure you're not getting doubly-reimbursed).

[ph5354a]

2Ls/3Ls: help me out with the firm reception stuff.

1) Do they generally fill up, i.e. should we be RSVPing right away, or do they keep them open even if there's a required RSVP?
2) Should we be going to all of these or be more selective about going to ones we're actually interested in, and also, how the fuck am I supposed to know which firms I'm interested in?
3) Are the OCS workshops helpful in preparing us for these receptions, and if not, are there other resources we should be looking at to prepare?
4) Besides getting a sense of what our preferences are beforehand, if that's necessary, how much specific information about each firm should we know before going to the reception?
5) When we RSVP on symplicity, do the firms get our resumes or any of our information, or just a list of names that RSVPed?
6) Do the associates at these receptions ask questions of us, or is it mostly the other way around? In other words, should I be prepared with a compelling answer of why their firm is the greatest of all time?

Thanks!

Sincerely,
Panicking and Hungover

[jbagelboy]

2Ls/3Ls: help me out with the firm reception stuff.

1) Do they generally fill up, i.e. should we be RSVPing right away, or do they keep them open even if there's a required RSVP?
2) Should we be going to all of these or be more selective about going to ones we're actually interested in, and also, how the fuck am I supposed to know which firms I'm interested in?
3) Are the OCS workshops helpful in preparing us for these receptions, and if not, are there other resources we should be looking at to prepare?
4) Besides getting a sense of what our preferences are beforehand, if that's necessary, how much specific information about each firm should we know before going to the reception?
5) When we RSVP on symplicity, do the firms get our resumes or any of our information, or just a list of names that RSVPed?
6) Do the associates at these receptions ask questions of us, or is it mostly the other way around? In other words, should I be prepared with a compelling answer of why their firm is the greatest of all time?

Thanks!

Sincerely,
Panicking and Hungover

From what everyone has told me, it's basically just free food. Obviously we shouldn't be tactless, but they aren't going to contribute anything to EIP success or whatnot, so no need to panic (or even really care). I have moot court practice overlapping with a few of the receptions, but I'm going to show up for those firms I'm interested in when I can make it - most of them seem to be held in morningside, which is a plus.

[smaug_]

Just eat, drink, talk and be a human being. It is a chance for the firm to give an early pitch to students, a chance for you to learn what their pitch is and a chance to practice asking mindless questions.

If you don't want to go, don't go. If you go, you can tell your EIP screening interviewer "I went to your firm reception and really enjoyed hearing about [x]" or "I spoke with [y]. She told me about her work in project finance and it was very interesting."

But, you can do nearly equivalent things without going to the reception. Really, just go if you're OK with wasting time and eating the free food. If you have anything that conflicts, go to the conflicting event/obligation.

[ph5354a]

Just eat, drink, talk and be a human being. It is a chance for the firm to give an early pitch to students, a chance for you to learn what their pitch is and a chance to practice asking mindless questions.

If you don't want to go, don't go. If you go, you can tell your EIP screening interviewer "I went to your firm reception and really enjoyed hearing about [x]" or "I spoke with [y]. She told me about her work in project finance and it was very interesting."

But, you can do nearly equivalent things without going to the reception. Really, just go if you're OK with wasting time and eating the free food. If you have anything that conflicts, go to the conflicting event/obligation.

I didn't even consider this --good call. Thanks! Super pumped for a semester of free food.

[Tiago Splitter]

2) Should we be going to all of these or be more selective about going to ones we're actually interested in, and also, how the fuck am I supposed to know which firms I'm interested in?

This is a good time to start doing this research, although there will be plenty more time in the summer. Go to Chambers and Associates and read about firms. Those that interest you might be worth following up with, and going to a few receptions and asking questions of associates about what they do might help push you in one direction or another. As smaug said, it's also a good chance to pick up a name or a practice specialty that you can later drop at OCI.

[lunaraeon]

are A+s given out, and if so, are they common/built into the curve?

Ooh, new 1L appears! Want to join us for brunch?

New 1L uses Teleport.
New 1L has fled!


Should have used ultra ball at least. Maybe master ball if you've already got mewtwo.

I know I just sped past you when I said hi yesterday, but our friendship just grew regardless.

[Tekrul]

[ph5354a]

We generally assume that the 1L median is 3.3 to reflect the curve, right?

[smaug_]

We generally assume that the 1L median is 3.3 to reflect the curve, right?

Possibly above that by a touch. It's hard for us to know. OCS doesn't want employers to know and honestly I don't think we know at this point. The big issue is that although the B- became "discretionary" many professors continue to give them out as before. Some profs are known for grading under the curve. But, people generally don't like to say "Yes, I got a B-!" so we're kinda in the dark.

I think our estimate before was 3.34. I haven't gone through and done the math to see what all of the possible GPA outcomes are for the first year, but I'd wager that the median and the mode are the same: whatever ends up being the most common GPA, based on the limited number of outcomes we have, is also likely to be where median falls.

More importantly, I'm not sure how important it is to worry about that line right now. Stone vs. Not-Stone (or Kent vs. near Kent) should be the way you generally think about things. You can read through last year's EIP thread and see the stuff we discussed.

Honestly the best thing would be to find some 2L/3L friends you legitimately trust and have a frank discussion of grades. People in law school obviously hate that, but it's a lot easier to know what grades you need for a firm if you talk to the people who will be working there and get a general idea of what they had for grades. I'd wager that for the vast majority Stone is good enough.

[starrydreamz3]

We generally assume that the 1L median is 3.3 to reflect the curve, right?

Possibly above that by a touch. It's hard for us to know. OCS doesn't want employers to know and honestly I don't think we know at this point. The big issue is that although the B- became "discretionary" many professors continue to give them out as before. Some profs are known for grading under the curve. But, people generally don't like to say "Yes, I got a B-!" so we're kinda in the dark.

I think our estimate before was 3.34. I haven't gone through and done the math to see what all of the possible GPA outcomes are for the first year, but I'd wager that the median and the mode are the same: whatever ends up being the most common GPA, based on the limited number of outcomes we have, is also likely to be where median falls.

More importantly, I'm not sure how important it is to worry about that line right now. Stone vs. Not-Stone (or Kent vs. near Kent) should be the way you generally think about things. You can read through last year's EIP thread and see the stuff we discussed.

Honestly the best thing would be to find some 2L/3L friends you legitimately trust and have a frank discussion of grades. People in law school obviously hate that, but it's a lot easier to know what grades you need for a firm if you talk to the people who will be working there and get a general idea of what they had for grades. I'd wager that for the vast majority Stone is good enough.

OCS will give us a handout with the GPA/Honors cut-offs for the firms at EIP soon(ish), right? I assume they pretty much have all the results from last fall's EIP. Don't want to get too far ahead of myself, but I'm in the job hunting mood with 1L summer job search in swing.

[Tiago Splitter]

OCS will give us a handout with the GPA/Honors cut-offs for the firms at EIP soon(ish), right? I assume they pretty much have all the results from last fall's EIP. Don't want to get too far ahead of myself, but I'm in the job hunting mood with 1L summer job search in swing.

That data comes to you in a presentation in April. It's helpful to see the percentage of offers that went to Stone people but there isn't any GPA info so it doesn't answer all the questions.

[smaug_]

OCS will give us a handout with the GPA/Honors cut-offs for the firms at EIP soon(ish), right? I assume they pretty much have all the results from last fall's EIP. Don't want to get too far ahead of myself, but I'm in the job hunting mood with 1L summer job search in swing.

You will get an "honors report" from OCS during the EIP orientation. (Which is near the end of the term.) I'll warn you in advance that it isn't the most useful as it only compares Stone vs. not-Stone. I think it would be more useful if you're trying to figure out which firms to avoid based on grade selectivity than it is if you're trying to figure out exactly how snobbish the grades selective firms are.

ETA: scooped by the wise Mr. Splitter.

[starrydreamz3]

OCS will give us a handout with the GPA/Honors cut-offs for the firms at EIP soon(ish), right? I assume they pretty much have all the results from last fall's EIP. Don't want to get too far ahead of myself, but I'm in the job hunting mood with 1L summer job search in swing.

You will get an "honors report" from OCS during the EIP orientation. (Which is near the end of the term.) I'll warn you in advance that it isn't the most useful as it only compares Stone vs. not-Stone. I think it would be more useful if you're trying to figure out which firms to avoid based on grade selectivity than it is if you're trying to figure out exactly how snobbish the grades selective firms are.

ETA: scooped by the wise Mr. Splitter.

Oh ok. Well I guess we take what we can get. Is there a lot of hand-holding through the EIP process? Meaning lots of boxed lunches come spring with OCS? Please say yes. I love those little chocolate squares they give us.

[smaug_]

Oh ok. Well I guess we take what we can get. Is there a lot of hand-holding through the EIP process? Meaning lots of boxed lunches come spring with OCS? Please say yes. I love those little chocolate squares they give us.

There isn't much handholding from OCS. There are definitely more box lunch events coming up, but I think some of the mandatory ones were pizza. The free lunches all kinda blur together eventually.

ETA: some of the firm events provide good food and good booze, though. They're your free meal winners for the term. Just expect that you'll be too busy to go to all of them.

[ph5354a]

More importantly, I'm not sure how important it is to worry about that line right now. Stone vs. Not-Stone (or Kent vs. near Kent) should be the way you generally think about things. You can read through last year's EIP thread and see the stuff we discussed.

This is really helpful, thanks. To your point about the curve, so far I've heard of at least two profs giving out B-'s so it's possible it's lower than 3.33, but it seems futile to try to extrapolate a median from the limited information I've gotten.

I'm with you starry, all this summer job stuff is getting me in the mood for EIP.*

*things I'll regret saying come June

[jbagelboy]

More importantly, I'm not sure how important it is to worry about that line right now. Stone vs. Not-Stone (or Kent vs. near Kent) should be the way you generally think about things. You can read through last year's EIP thread and see the stuff we discussed.

This is really helpful, thanks. To your point about the curve, so far I've heard of at least two profs giving out B-'s so it's possible it's lower than 3.33, but it seems futile to try to extrapolate a median from the limited information I've gotten.

I'm with you starry, I'll this summer job stuff is getting me in the mood for EIP.*

*things I'll regret saying come June

The median might still be B+, but there are more lower gpas concentrated below than higher ones above, if that makes any sense. Since they give out ~40% B or below and only 25% A- or above, statistically the mean would have to fall below 3.3 (right? More lower grades total than higher ones) even if student 175 out of 350 has a 3.3 if you lined em all up.

[lunaraeon]

More importantly, I'm not sure how important it is to worry about that line right now. Stone vs. Not-Stone (or Kent vs. near Kent) should be the way you generally think about things. You can read through last year's EIP thread and see the stuff we discussed.

This is really helpful, thanks. To your point about the curve, so far I've heard of at least two profs giving out B-'s so it's possible it's lower than 3.33, but it seems futile to try to extrapolate a median from the limited information I've gotten.

I'm with you starry, I'll this summer job stuff is getting me in the mood for EIP.*

*things I'll regret saying come June

The median might still be B+, but there are more lower gpas concentrated below than higher ones above, if that makes any sense. Since they give out ~40% B or below and only 25% A- or above, statistically the mean would have to fall below 3.3 (right? More lower grades total than higher ones) even if student 175 out of 350 has a 3.3 if you lined em all up.

Unsure. There are the professors giving out (a few) B-s, but two of mine said (and are nice enough that I believe them) they used the upper limits possible. So probably the distribution balances out to middle of each range, or at least we can assume, and that seems to skew towards 3.2. But there's also the elective curve (A- average I think) for one grade, and probably a good amount of grade fluctuation for each individual. I think the class mean likely comes close to the B+ median, I say with pseudo-statistical certainty

But regardless, safer to be past the Stone line, and position now only matters if you're trying to be competitive for a 1L firm job. 4 fresh grades can change a lot >.<

[jbagelboy]

Is Understanding Property by Sprankling the credited supp for Merrill's property textbook? (Prof is Briffault). How should I feel about dumping $40 on it? Or would a used older edition for $10 be fine?

Thanks!

[ph5354a]

Spring OCI question: If a firm didn't explicitly ask for a transcript, does that mean they don't know anything about your grades, or does OCS give them that information directly?

[Tiago Splitter]

Is Understanding Property by Sprankling the credited supp for Merrill's property textbook? (Prof is Briffault). How should I feel about dumping $40 on it? Or would a used older edition for $10 be fine?

Thanks!

Understanding property covers everything in the Merrill book. I would get the cheaper addition as property changes about once every thirty years.

Spring OCI question: If a firm didn't explicitly ask for a transcript, does that mean they don't know anything about your grades, or does OCS give them that information directly?

I don't think they have any other way to get that info. You should bring a copy of your transcript to every interview though just in case.

[FredJones]

.

[lunaraeon]

Does anyone have any intel on Liebman? He suggested some supplements for class, but everyone seems to swear by Merrill's stuff.

The real question is, how have you not joined us on Facebook yet?

(I'd give a real answer if I had info on Liebman, sorry!)