Columbia students taking questions Forum

[starrydreamz3]

What kind of gpa/ranking is needed to even consider applying for 1L SA positions?

Related, what's the cut-off for Stone?

Stone is a 3.41 at the end of the year. If you're not a diversity candidate or applying for an international position, you would likely need a GPA that put you closer to the Kent (3.8 ) range than the Stone range to even have a shot. I could be wrong, but I don't think many people had 1L SA positions at all. Your best bet would be to talk to someone who had one and ask how they got the position.

Almost everyone ends up either with a GSF position, an HRIP position or doing a summer judicial internship. I think the caveat to this is if you're from certain secondary markets.

Is Kent always 3.8 and above or does it change? I don't think I'll be able to wait for a 1L position anyway because I have an offer from a fed agency pending, though it's unpaid.

[Tiago Splitter]

Kent is always either 3.8 or a second method. The second method requires you to get no worse than a B+, and the rest of your grades have to be A- or better, with at least half of those six being A or better.

[starrydreamz3]

Kent is always either 3.8 or a second method. The second method requires you to get no worse than a B+, and the rest of your grades have to be A- or better, with at least half of those six being A or better.

Interesting, thanks!

[lunaraeon]

Kent is always either 3.8 or a second method. The second method requires you to get no worse than a B+, and the rest of your grades have to be A- or better, with at least half of those six being A or better.

Interesting, thanks!

I think the outlier grade can be as low as a B. From the CLS website, "A student shall be named a Kent scholar if during an academic year the student has earned at least 15 graded law credits toward his or her degree, and in that year either 1) has achieved a grade point average of 3.800, or 2) has received grades all or all but one of which are A+, A, or A- (the exception being no lower than B), and, if the lowest grade is put aside, at least half of which are A or A+."


Also, anyone have comments on Heller (property), Scott (crim), or Thomas (conlaw)? And are any of them exceptions to the typical supplement advice?

[starrydreamz3]

Kent is always either 3.8 or a second method. The second method requires you to get no worse than a B+, and the rest of your grades have to be A- or better, with at least half of those six being A or better.

Interesting, thanks!

I think the outlier grade can be as low as a B. From the CLS website, "A student shall be named a Kent scholar if during an academic year the student has earned at least 15 graded law credits toward his or her degree, and in that year either 1) has achieved a grade point average of 3.800, or 2) has received grades all or all but one of which are A+, A, or A- (the exception being no lower than B), and, if the lowest grade is put aside, at least half of which are A or A+."


Also, anyone have comments on Heller (property), Scott (crim), or Thomas (conlaw)? And are any of them exceptions to the typical supplement advice?

Just commenting that we have all the same core classes again next semester, and that makes me happy.

[djwjddl]

Thanks for all the info. Any idea where a 3.5-3.7 puts you in terms of percentile/class rank?

[starrydreamz3]

Thanks for all the info. Any idea where a 3.5-3.7 puts you in terms of percentile/class rank?

Well if 3.41 is ~%35 and 3.8 is ~5%, then I would think you're definitely in the top quartile. Congrats!

[Sgt Pepper]

Thanks for all the info. Any idea where a 3.5-3.7 puts you in terms of percentile/class rank?

If you go to "Forum for law school students," one of the first links is a class rank estimator if you want to give it a go.

[Sgt Pepper]

Would it be at all worthwhile to participate in Spring OCI just for the interview practice?

[the_phoenix612]

Would it be at all worthwhile to participate in Spring OCI just for the interview practice?

You can never have enough interview practice, IMO.

[smaug_]

Everyone should participate in spring OCI for the practice. It's fun and doesn't take too much time. You might even end up with a job out of it. (though that's not likely)

3.5-3.7 is a huge range. I Keep in mind that the curve is not even right now. With three grades you have a limited number of options. (e.g. A-, A-, A; B+, A, A) and so on. You probably have more people in the stone range during first semester (a large number of people with a 3.44 exactly) and we're not totally sure that 3.41 is top 35% at the end of the year. Maybe y'all will figure it out, but grading has (intentionally) become a bit of a black box at Columbia. The changes made last year should have made things more forgiving, but there were professors who graded under the curve.

I guess I just used a lot of words to say "3.5-3.7" is a very good place to be but don't think of yourself as top quartile or anything else yet.

[Tekrul]

Your hypothetical grade combinations (A-, A-, A; B+, A, A) made me hypothetically sweat.

[lunaraeon]

Just commenting that we have all the same core classes again next semester, and that makes me happy.

Friends

[questionaire]

are A+s given out, and if so, are they common/built into the curve?

[ph5354a]

are A+s given out, and if so, are they common/built into the curve?

From the Grading Guidelines pdf on lawnet: "A+ is a grade to be used sparingly and only for truly extraordinary performance. In
general, there should be no more than one A+ in a class and the grade should not be used automatically for the top performance in the class if that performance is not extraordinary."

So yes, no, and no.

[questionaire]

Ahh, thanks for the info. Makes sense. So basically the winners of the named 1L awards for best performance in each class are essentially the A+s then I would assume, if there are any.

I'm definitely ready for a new semester to begin to distract me from grades.

[smaug_]

Ahh, thanks for the info. Makes sense. So basically the winners of the named 1L awards for best performance in each class are essentially the A+s then I would assume, if there are any.

I'm definitely ready for a new semester to begin to distract me from grades.

Not necessarily. Sometimes the named awards are chosen by a group rather than a single professor, so the "best in class" award (the person who would be eligible for an A+) could be given to someone who didn't receive a named award.

[Monochromatic Oeuvre]

Did that actually wind up happening?

We'll let you know when King day rolls around. I'm not optimistic.

Update: Shaw's grades are once again not here, to the astonishment of absolutely no one.

In a letter to students, Dean David Schizer of Columbia Law School informed students that his faculty would now be held accountable for the timely reporting of student grades. Schizer said that after a lot of consideration, the Columbia Law faculty agreed to report fall semester grades no later than the Friday before Martin Luther King Day, and spring semester grades no later than June 15th (except, of course, for graduating students).

But saying that they have a standard means nothing unless there is a penalty for non-compliant faculty. From the email:

Faculty who do not comply will be included on a list circulated to the faculty and students, and they will also be fined. I realize that there will still be some situations when, for extenuating circumstances, grades will be late, but my hope is those situations will be rare.

I desperately want that CivPro grade back, even if it's a B, just so I can stop tearing my hair out. But thanks for the assurances, Shitzer. I'm sure if that $50 fine for someone who makes $200k/year doesn't make him straighten up and fly right, the judgments against a tenured professor from a bunch of 22-year-old will really have him crapping his pants.

[questionaire]

Another question: People seem to talk about your "gpa" but there is no gpa on the grades section of lawnet. Is there a GPA/ does the law school use the same gpa values as the rest of the university? (in other words...

Grade Equivalent
A+ 4.33
A 4.00
A- 3.67
B+ 3.33
B 3.00
B- 2.67

??/

[otnemem]

Another question: People seem to talk about your "gpa" but there is no gpa on the grades section of lawnet. Is there a GPA/ does the law school use the same gpa values as the rest of the university? (in other words...

Grade Equivalent
A+ 4.33
A 4.00
A- 3.67
B+ 3.33
B 3.00
B- 2.67

??/

Yeah, I'm pretty sure they use that scale to calculate Stone and Kent.

[shock259]

Another question: People seem to talk about your "gpa" but there is no gpa on the grades section of lawnet. Is there a GPA/ does the law school use the same gpa values as the rest of the university? (in other words...

Grade Equivalent
A+ 4.33
A 4.00
A- 3.67
B+ 3.33
B 3.00
B- 2.67

??/

The school calculates it internally, but your GPA won't be on your transcript/lawnet/SSOL/resume/etc. It's only used to calculate Kent/Stone. But yes, I assume the scale you posted is correct.

Edit: Also to the person asking a long time ago, Briffault allowed laptops last year. Doubt he has changed that policy.

[lunaraeon]

are A+s given out, and if so, are they common/built into the curve?

Ooh, new 1L appears! Want to join us for brunch?

[Sgt Pepper]

Any older people have Heller for Property, Kendall Thomas for Conlaw, or E. Scott for Crim?

[lunaraeon]

Any older people have Heller for Property, Kendall Thomas for Conlaw, or E. Scott for Crim?

+1, I'll take younger people if you can find some, too.

[Tekrul]

are A+s given out, and if so, are they common/built into the curve?

Ooh, new 1L appears! Want to join us for brunch?

New 1L uses Teleport.
New 1L has fled!


Should have used ultra ball at least. Maybe master ball if you've already got mewtwo.